thanks nws, i followed them way back and til a year or so ago, its true that antisense technology has been a bust so far, although much has been learned, and the busts gave some clues to trying the next "generation" of that technology. Actually some of gern's work is a variant of antisense (they dont like to say that, what with all the failures of that tech) But gern has learned from others, and i do know they are tweaking things (several times) as they proceed thru preclinicals..which is one reason they are SO late getting their grn163L into trials, which they so nicely call a "telomerase template antagonist", ..okmara bristles if you mention the word antisense.