Replies to post #272858 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[SiouxPal]

Can you help me here? How many bodies were recovered from Shanksville?
How many were recovered from the Pentagon crash?

Hundreds?

Thanks.

[SoxFan]

So lets go point by point on the famous NIST document which was put out by the Department of Commerce under the shrub administration:

from your post
1. If the World Trade Center (WTC) towers were designed to withstand multiple impacts by Boeing 707 aircraft, why did the impact of individual 767s cause so much damage?

As stated in Section 5.3.2 of NIST NCSTAR 1, a document from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) indicated that the impact of a [single, not multiple] Boeing 707 aircraft was analyzed during the design stage of the WTC towers. However, NIST investigators were unable to locate any documentation of the criteria and method used in the impact analysis and, therefore, were unable to verify the assertion that “… such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building.…”

My response:
so just because NIST could not locate documents make them invalid? Did they talk to the designers and architects? John Skilling who was responsible for the structural design of the towers in 1993 after the first bombing said they were designed to withstand a hit by a 707 at 600 mph fully loaded with fuel. Many people would die but the structure would stand. Also Leslie Robertson of the same firm (Worthington Skilling, Helle, and Jackson) also testified to the fact they were designed to withstand a 707 hit.

The 767 was estimated traveling at 440-550 MPH and it would have less of an impact than a 707 at 600MPH

Oh and the onsite construction manager of the towers was a Frank De Martini (missing since 9-11 but in a pre9-11 documentary said the WTC was designed to withstand multiple hits from a 707.

Oh did the NIST demonstrate how the aircraft damage and the fire bring down these building? Or did they surmise?

[SoxFan]

Your post:
The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.

My Response:
As stated in my previous post the 707 traveling faster would have caused more damage per the original analysis of the designers. But let’s look at what NIST really states was the damage estimate or their best guess:
North Tower
36 exterior columns severed, 2 heavily damaged (240 total exterior columns – no damage to 202)
6 core columns severed, 3 heavily damaged (41 not severed)
43 of 47 core columns stripped of insulation on one or more floors

South Tower: (first to collapse)
33 exterior columns severed, 1 heavily
10 core columns severed, 1 heavily damaged
39 of 47 core columns stripped of insulation on one or more floors

All the above were estimates from one person Eric Douglas so let’s look at the first collapse – the south tower. Because the ST was hit on the 80th floor the core columns were thicker than on the NT where it was hit on the 95th floor. As evidence shows the St was not hit straight on but on a right side and the right engine did little damage and exited the building. The main damage supposedly would be done by the left wing and the engine. Eric Douglas admits that the aluminum wing could not have damage the core after hitting the outer columns and he also admits that the engine could have severed only one column core. So where do they get 10 core columns destroyed? Well from the computer simulation of course. That’s because those are the only figures that would work. I guess science is a foreign concept to this administration.

NIST scientists admitted it would start with a base case and then would add severe damage estimates based on variation of the most influential parameters. Douglas stated that NIST only selected the severest outcomes because they would only be the one that worked. They were needed to produce collapse. In the ST NIST estimated that between 3-10 core columns were severed and came up with 10 as that was the only one that produced collapse. Heck Douglas even admitted that the base case they started with was taken from the observable data.

I think if you are interested in this you should read this
http://www.nistreview.org/NCSTAR1-REVIEW-DOUGLAS.pdf

Then try to figure out how NIST figured out the fire aspect. Now that is even more scary. Oh but I forgot you’re a man of faith and never question authority.