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blackhawks

05/11/26 3:28 PM

#581760 RE: Double Dragon #581759

There was no interference. Reminding troops not to follow illegal orders has been SOP since the My Lai massacre.

An irony noted by critics is that older public statements by Hegseth himself reportedly acknowledged the same principle — that troops must refuse unlawful orders. ([The Guardian][4])

You and Kegsbreath have no leg to stand on. Dismissed.

Since the My Lai massacre, the U.S. military has placed much greater emphasis on the legal obligation of service members to refuse unlawful orders — not merely the right to do so.

My Lai became a defining case because soldiers killed hundreds of Vietnamese civilians after following orders that were later deemed illegal. The massacre, and the subsequent courts-martial, deeply shaped modern military ethics training. One of the enduring lessons was that “just following orders” is not an absolute defense under U.S. military law or international law.

Today, that principle is embedded in:

* the United States Department of Defense Law of Armed Conflict training,
* the Uniform Code of Military Justice,
* officer and enlisted ethics instruction,
* and military academy curricula.

The modern doctrine is essentially:

* lawful orders must be obeyed,
* manifestly unlawful orders must be refused.


Examples often used in training include:

* intentionally targeting civilians,
* torture,
* executing prisoners,
* or denying surrender (“no quarter”).

Sen. Mark Kelly’s role in the recent controversy was to publicly restate that doctrine. In late 2025 and early 2026, Kelly and other veteran lawmakers released videos and statements reminding troops that their oath is to the Constitution and that unlawful orders should not be obeyed. ([Stars and Stripes][1])

Kelly specifically argued that this was longstanding military law and training, not a partisan innovation. In one letter to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, Kelly wrote that service members are “equally obligated not to follow unlawful orders” and said every member of the armed forces is taught that unlawful orders must not be carried out. ([Senator Mark Kelly][2])

The political controversy emerged because:

* Hegseth and allies argued Kelly’s messaging risked undermining discipline and could encourage troops to disobey legitimate commands. ([Stars and Stripes][1])

* Kelly and supporters argued he was merely repeating settled military law dating back decades, especially reinforced after My Lai and the Nuremberg trials. ([Reuters][3])

An irony noted by critics is that older public statements by Hegseth himself reportedly acknowledged the same principle — that troops must refuse unlawful orders. ([The Guardian][4])

Legally and historically, Kelly’s core claim aligns with established U.S. military doctrine. The dispute is less about whether unlawful orders should be refused — that is well established — and more about:

* whether publicly emphasizing that duty in a polarized political climate affects military cohesion,
* and whether senior political figures were implicitly suggesting current or future presidential orders might be unlawful.

That tension — between discipline and constitutional obligation — has existed in the U.S. military ever since My Lai forced the institution to confront the consequences of blind obedience.


[1]: https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2026-01-05/hegseth-censure-kelly-unlawful-orders-20306310.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Hegseth censures Sen. Mark Kelly, moves to review retirement rank after video urging troops to disobey unlawful orders | Stars and Stripes"
[2]: https://www.kelly.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/kelly-demands-hegseth-clarify-no-quarters-comment-reaffirm-troops-have-duty-to-refuse-illegal-orders/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Kelly Demands Hegseth Clarify “No Quarters” Comment, Reaffirm Troops Have Duty to Refuse Illegal Orders  - Senator Mark Kelly"
[3]: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-appeals-court-weighs-pentagon-bid-punish-senator-mark-kelly-2026-05-07/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "US appeals court weighs Pentagon bid to punish Senator Mark Kelly"
[4]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/08/hegseth-unlawful-orders-trump-fox-interview?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Hegseth said US military should refuse 'unlawful' Trump orders in unearthed 2016 interview"

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Zorax

05/11/26 4:27 PM

#581773 RE: Double Dragon #581759

Soldiers can get killed for refusing orders or court martialed for mutiny. and trained to never ever refuse an order to kill.


Wrong. American soldiers can not kill prisoners no matter who tells them.
You're not from America obviously.