Replies to post #457465 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[12yearplan]

80 years Brook. And, polls tell us upwards of 60% of Israeli support the present Apartheid status - refute these facts/analysis (not mine):

10:40 -> ..

[fuagf]

brooklyn13, You must know that the only articles that deal with left and right Zionism are the ones focused on that point. On the point you made, the point we dealt with earlier. You must also know that in all other articles critical of Israel policies that distinction is not made. It's the right-wing from the river to the sea Greater Israel Zionists so many in the world have problems with. Surely you must understand that before now.

See the Sharon and Drobles quotes -

"For settlers, obstructing Palestinian statehood is part of the mission, Yehuda Shaul, a leading Israeli expert on settlements, told me. He noted that back in 1980, Matityahu Drobles, who was then head of the World Zionist Organization’s settlements department, stated his goal bluntly in a broad plan. “Being cut off by Jewish settlements, the minority [Arab] population will find it difficult to form a territorial and political continuity,” he wrote at the time. “The best and most effective way of removing every shadow of a doubt about our intention to hold on to Judea and Samaria forever is by speeding up the settlement momentum in these territories.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/12/16/west-bank-settlers-violence-peace/ "

and

[ Insert: And so it was done.
WASHINGTON: Winston S. Churchill III, grandson of the famed British prime minister, recalled last October at the National Press Club here a telling encounter he had had in 1973 with the hawkish Ariel Sharon, now the Israeli prime minister, about Zionist objectives. “What is to become of the Palestinians?” Churchill asked. “We’ll make a pastrami sandwich of them,” Sharon said. Churchill responded, “What?” “Yes, we’ll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years’ time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart.”
http://www.mafhoum.com/press4/116P51.htm
Again, in 1998 shortly before being elected prime minister, Sharon wrote: “Everyone has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours … Everything we don’t grab will go to them.”
https://www.bangordailynews.com/2010/06/13/opinion/israels-pastrami-sandwich-policy/ ]

here - https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=173500112

To your - "You do know that over 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs, who have equal rights or at least as much as your indigenous people ? Sort of makes it hard to understand how you conclude that it’s an apartheid situation and Australia isn’t?"

Your oft repeated Israel-Australian analogy is invalid. We have discrimination yes, but not under the law as exists in Israel. Search and read, for sod sake.

And you obviously ignore or forget or something stuff recently given to you. Again so many closer to the situation than you are disagree with you:

brooklyn13, So you easily accuse others of conflating Jews with Israel, yet you conflate what possibly could simply have
been a tweet by only one individual in support of the Hamas atrocity with the whole BLM movement. Repeat to you:

[...]

But for Israeli Arabs, who make up one-fifth of Israel’s 9 million citizens .. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/19/one-more-racist-law-reactions-as-israel-axes-arabic-as-official-language , the new law was a slap in the face. When the law passed, Arab parliamentary members ripped up copies of the bill and shouted, “Apartheid,” on the floor of the Knesset (Israel’s parliament).

Ayman Odeh, the leader of a coalition of primarily Arab parties currently in the opposition, said in a statement that Israel had “passed a law of Jewish supremacy and told us that we will always be second-class citizens.”

Palestinians, liberal American Jews .. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/07/israel-nation-state-law/565712/ , and many Israelis on the left also denounced the law as racist and undemocratic. Yohanan Plesner .. https://www.facebook.com/IsraelDemocracyInstitute/photos/a.350858055009507.79209.270427406385906/1753046991457266/?type=3 , the head of the nonpartisan Jerusalem-based Israel Democracy Institute, called the new law “jingoistic and divisive” and an “unnecessary embarrassment to Israel.”

But at the core of the new law is a deep, existential debate that Israelis have grappled with almost since the country’s founding: Can Israel be both a “Jewish state” that protects and celebrates Jewish identity, and a liberal democracy that protects the rights of all minorities, including non-Jews?

The new law is about longstanding disputes over borders and identity

[...]

But while they certainly enjoy more rights than Palestinians in East Jerusalem, who in turn have it better than Palestinians in the West Bank, who have it far better than Palestinians in Gaza, Arab Israelis say that since the state’s founding, in practice they have not been afforded the same rights as Jewish Israelis. This is one reason why many Arab Israelis refer to themselves as Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.

The Association for Civil Rights in Israel, an Israeli human rights organization, has documented .. https://www.acri.org.il/en/category/arab-citizens-of-israel/arab-minority-rights/ .. entrenched discrimination and socioeconomic differences in “land, urban planning, housing, infrastructure, economic development, and education.” More than half the poor families in Israel are Arab, and Arab municipalities are the poorest in Israel, according to ACRI.

[...]

The new law reflects a deeper political shift in Israel and abroad

Some supporters of Israel have dismissed criticism of the nation-state law as just another opportunity to bash the country while bigger abuses happen elsewhere. But others see it as an indication that the Jewish state, and the values it claims to represent, are fundamentally shifting .. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/miriamberger/the-rise-and-rise-and-rise-of-israels-right-wing-media .

https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=173382026

You are obviously in the red. Ok, so now what? It's obvious before not we are going nowhere in any of our conversation. You said before - like conix - you were leaving, not to return. We go nowhere. You either ignore or forget all you are given. Why not take another break.

[sortagreen]

Look at me. I'm a fake Jew... a JINO if you will. LOL. 😆


You've "condemned the WB settlements repeatedly", you say.

But they're totally righteous, because something or other, something or other, in the 17th century. So which is it?

I guess Somali pirates can use the same rationale. "Hey, English people used to do it."
--------------------------

"do know that over 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs"

Yes, we know... You only drove 90% of them out of their homes and villages

"who have equal rights or at least as much as your indigenous people"

Well there you go... Only 5 million to go. And there's the Nation State Law of course, so they understand they're still second class.