"Only a few acknowledged that the father’s story of return, redemption and liberation was also a story of conquest, displacement, oppression and death." By: Yaron Ezrahi Date: December 1997 Source: https://mondediplo.com/1997/12/palestine ------------------------------------------------
Native Americans never had proper deeds, nor did any of the native tribes in Africa. That doesn't mean that aboriginal people didn't live in those places, and while you are correct about the distant past, any native American currently within US borders is a citizen of the United States, with the same rights as I have. If a Native Americans (and I find they actually refer to themselves as Indians) wants to buy the house next door to mine, he can. He can vote in the local election, and enjoy the rights of citizenship. At this point, it's the best I can do. The idea that American Indians are poorly treated in Mexico and the northern triangle countries, doesn't alter how I feel they should be treated under our law.
The Palestinian population on land Israel claims dominion over, are deserving of actual human rights. And they currently live as prisoners in their own lands. The destruction of centuries-old olive groves, the razing of houses and whole villages, pushing families out of Jerusalem, as if only Jews are currently allowed to live and prosper, despite the fact that both peoples lived there for centuries in relative peace... is frankly abhorrent and intolerable.
Rashida Tlaib's grandmother didn't move to the occupied territories. She has always lived on that ground , and she's as deserving of drawing water and life from that ground as anyone else, if not more so.
Israel is a progressive democracy only if you deny the basic humanity of fully half the people within the land it claims, and treating people as less than human is not consistent with progressive democracy. You can read this in the Israeli press (although it's pretty clear the Kahanists and fascists currently have the upper hand), but you aren't going to get it from Murdoch or Greenblatt.
--------------- The Palestinians chafed under Turkish rule, and Hashemite rule, and British rule... but with the advent of Israel it got worse, Israel simply pushed them out into the deserts, and then commenced to colonize the deserts as well... and that's what the "deceiving" map shows. It's objectively true. It happened and it continues to happen.
Palestinian are being ethnically cleansed out of al-Tantura in May of 1944; soon after 200+ men were massacred.
brooklyn13, Seems to me it is incorrect for you to say -- "I don't agree with this bill, but your maps are deceiving. There was never a Palestine previously - Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1948 and held it until 1967. There were no people claiming they were Palestinians during the Hashemite rule and no one claiming it was a country called Palestine. No demonstrations against the Jordanians, no bombs launched against them. P - If the Palestinians really have a homeland it's within Jordan:"
as historically there has been as Palestine for, umm, some years
Palestine (Arabic: ?????? Filas?in, Falas?in, Filis?in; Greek: ?a?a?st???, Palaistine; Latin: Palaestina; Hebrew: ??????? Palestina) is a geographic region in Western Asia usually considered to include Israel, the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and in some definitions, parts of western Jordan. P - The name was used by ancient Greek writers, and was later applied to the Roman province of Judaea, which was renamed Syria Palaestina.[1] [...] Since 1948, the region has been divided into Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The State of Palestine, a de-jure sovereign country .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_state#De_facto_and_de_jure_states , is in an ongoing sovereignty dispute with Israel.[2][3][4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)
The UN in the politicking following WW1, and in the demise of the Ottoman Empire, in fact did recognize the existence of Palestine. The fact the territory of Palestine was denied, by geopolitics and war, recognition as a fully independent state should hardly be used to support a claim that it never existed, as you do in your "There was never a Palestine previously" above. See
Palestine was among former Ottoman territories placed under UK administration by the League of Nations in 1922. All of these territories eventually became fully independent States, except Palestine, where in addition to “the rendering of administrative assistance and advice” the British Mandate incorporated the “Balfour Declaration” of 1917, expressing support for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”. During the Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the Nazi persecution. Arab demands for independence and resistance to immigration led to a rebellion in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sides. UK considered various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, the UK turned the Palestine problem over to the UN. Read more .. https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/#Origins_and_Evolution_of_the_Palestine_Problem_1917-1947_Part_I
After looking at alternatives, the UN proposed terminating the Mandate and partitioning Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947). One of the two envisaged States proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war involving neighbouring Arab States expanded to 77 percent of the territory of mandate Palestine, including the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half of the Palestinian Arab population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt controlled the rest of the territory assigned by resolution 181 to the Arab State. In the 1967 war, Israel occupied these territories (Gaza Strip and the West Bank) including East Jerusalem, which was subsequently annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council Resolution 242 (1967) formulated the principles of a just and lasting peace, including an Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the conflict, a just settlement of the refugee problem, and the termination of all claims or states of belligerency. The 1973 hostilities were followed by Security Council Resolution 338, which inter alia called for peace negotiations between the parties concerned. In 1974 the General Assembly reaffirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, national independence, sovereignty, and to return. The following year, the General Assembly established the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People and conferred on the PLO the status of observer in the Assembly and in UN conferences. Read more .. https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-ii-1947-1977/ https://www.un.org/unispal/history/
So Palestine obviously existed as did the other Ottoman territories. Seems to this relatively inexpert guy that basically the only difference between Palestine and the other ex-Ottoman territories is that Palestine, thanks to geopolitical maneuverings, and war, has never until this day been able to attain independent statehood.
That said, the post included here now i think complements sortagreen's reply to you re your bringing North American Indians into the debate:
conix, So you bring back the age-old, anti-free debate idea that you cannot be critical of Zionist (non-democratic) Israel without being antisemitic. It's a cheap effort to distract from the antidemocratic efforts of the clearly and fairly seen fascist tendencies of Trump's GOP. Some repeated on that at bottom. [...] Israel’s 1952 Citizenship Law at its outset notes that the state grants citizenship via four routes:(1) “return,” (2) “residence in Israel,” (3) birth, and (4) naturalization.[572] Israel reserves the first path, “return,” exclusively for Jews. This path grows out of the 1950 “Law of Return,” which guarantees Jewish citizens of other countries the right to settle in Israel.[573] The Citizenship Law states that Jews already living in Israel at the time gain citizenship via this path, as opposed to the “residence in Israel” one. https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=170035018
See also:
Yep, would be nice .. i made that post primarily for the succinct reiteration of the basis of a possible agreement, repeated here ..
•The West Bank and Gaza go to the Palestinians;
•Large Israeli settlements adjacent to Israel go to Israel in exchange for an equal slice of land;
•The Old City of Jerusalem is open to all faiths and nationalities, under international supervision;
•Arab refugees from 1948 and 1967 get monetary restitution but resettlement limited to the West Bank;
• Palestinians recognize Israel and agree to halt all attacks against it;
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