Re Antifa: Dr. Mark Bray disputes Noam Chomsky's "Noam Chomsky: Antifa is a gift to the far right and US state repression"
---------- "conix, Wrong. - “They have no allegiance to liberal democracy”: an expert on antifa explains the group" [...] "Sean Illing So antifa’s logic is that fascism is a rejection of liberal democratic norms, and therefore it can’t be defeated with what we’d consider conventional liberal democratic tactics? Mark Bray Well, certainly the latter is correct. They argue a couple of things. First, they argue that in Europe you can see that parliamentary democracy did not always stop the advance of fascism and Nazism — and in the cases of both Germany and Italy, Hitler and Mussolini were appointed and gained their power largely through democratic means. When Hitler took his final control through the [1933] Enabling Act, it was approved by parliament. p - They also say that rational discourse is insufficient on its own because a lot of good arguments were made and a lot of debates were had but ultimately that was insufficient during that period, and so the view that good ideas always prevail over bad ideas isn’t very convincing. p - They other key point, which probably isn’t made enough, is that these are revolutionary leftists. They’re not concerned about the fact that fascism targets liberalism. These are self-described revolutionaries. They have no allegiance to liberal democracy, which they believe has failed the marginalized communities they’re defending. They’re anarchists and communists who are way outside the traditional conservative-liberal spectrum." ----------
Noam Chomsky: Antifa is a gift to the far right and US state repression
Exclusive: Renowned academic says antifascist movement has initiated the use of force in ways that are ‘completely unacceptable’
Maya Oppenheim @mayaoppenheim Sunday 10 December 2017 21:45
[...]
The anti-fascist movement has a long history, which dates back to fighting Benito Mussolini’s Blackshirts in the 1920s and then Adolf Hitler’s Brownshirts in the taverns of Munich. In Britain, activists mobilised against Blackshirts led by Oswald Mosley, the leader of the British Union of Fascists, in Cable Street, east London, in the 1930s.
“The differences are radical,” Chomsky says. In the 1930s, the Nazis ruled Germany, fascism had been established for years in Italy, and there were powerful fascist movements elsewhere.
“There was a literal death struggle between fascism and labour (and of course much beyond). There are many ominous developments today but nothing remotely like that. In particular, in the US it’s hardly the case that the working class is confronting the far right.”
Dr Mark Bray, a leading scholar on antifa, agrees it was important not to assume the distinct historical circumstances were the same, but argues the troubling growth of the far right in America should be treated with the same gravity as that in Europe at the beginning of the twentieth century.
“I don’t think they are the same. I don’t throw away comparisons willy-nilly. I think it is important to understand the differences,” the Ivy League lecturer tells The Independent.
“The argument anti-fascists make, which I agree with, is whether or not it is the same or different, it is important to organise against fascists and far-right groups even if they are small, in case they could be the seeds of a future murderous movement or regime,” he continues. “In my opinion, it is not the same but it should be treated with the seriousness that it could be the same.”
Bray, who lectures at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire, disputes Chomsky’s assertion that the violent fringes of antifa played into the hands of the far right itself.
“I don’t agree with the characterisation that anti-fascism is a gift to the far right,” he says. “I don’t know of an example where the efforts of anti-fascists to stop the far right have made them stronger than they would be otherwise whereas I know plenty of examples where their efforts have stopped the far right.” Watch more
Noam Chomsky says he would vote for Jeremy Corbyn if he were British
Bray, who specialises in human rights, terrorism, and political radicalism, is similarly dismissive of the notion antifa somehow benefits the repressive arm of the state.
He argues the US government did not need a “pretext” to enhance its powers and draws attention to the police’s response to the Ferguson protests over the fatal shooting of Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old, by a white Ferguson police officer back in August 2014.
The police brought military armoured vehicles into the area. At the time, police could be seen wearing Kevlar vests, helmets and camouflage, and were armed with pistols, automatic rifles, shotguns and tear gas.
“It seems to me the repressive forces are going to be increasingly more repressive almost regardless,” Bray reflects. He also suggests tendency persists within the media to divide left-wing protesters into a reductive good-guy-versus-bad-guy dichotomy and focus far greater attention on militant outlier groups.
He says media coverage tended to be drawn to images of violence and property damage even if this did not accurately capture the diverse nature of protests.
This has been true of antifa in recent months, with Fox News voicing alarm about the threat of “leftist antifa thugs” and an increasing volume of think pieces and columns issuing stern warnings against the group’s actions.
Bray says the media and much of the American public overlooked the broad scope of antifa’s activities, explaining that while it was “the spectacle” which gained the most attention, it constituted a minority of their activities.
Nevertheless, he recognises that violence does have a role to play in the movement. “It is part of the antifa repertoire to confront these groups and physically if necessary. The historical justification has been made evident in my opinion,” he says.
“Anti-fascists see fascism as a political opponent not a difference of opinion. It is important for it to be understood as a struggle rather than something which can sit within a liberal rights framework. Some members of the movement say no free speech for fascists because historically fascism has invalidated its legitimacy in the public sphere – it has shown itself to be violent and genocidal.”
His remarks are founded on the view that fascism must be shut down as quickly as possible, as allowing such movements to snowball can constitute a grave danger to society.
The alt-right movement has gained growing attention since Donald Trump’s presidential bid and subsequent election victory. While Mr Trump has sought to distance himself from the movement – which has been accused of racism, antisemitism, and misogyny – its members have hailed him as their leader.
Market Data 
Markets 
AI
