Replies to post #543358 on Mr Cooper Group Inc fka COOP

[SamuraiProgrammer]

Thanks for the reply.

We agree to agree that assets have liabilities and have less value than its face value.

We agree to disagree that the safe harbor assets may or may not be that huge.

:)

I am on board with that. Agreeing to disagree is acceptable. :)

For your bullet points, I have suppositions. These may or may not matter or even make sense (without a tinfoil hat) :)

- If the return is much much more than 10B then the 75/25 split til the end that POR 7 devised is clearly a theft in broad daylight by the HF who own most of preferred while the small guys don't bother to read the fine print and buy commons. We cannot have P preferred to have much more than $1000 per share face value. I own only P and so I cannot complain but I think it is very unfair for common if this is the case.

All of this I learned on this message board so you can take it, take it with a grain of salt, or leave it. Unfortunately, it is the best I have and the best I remember.

Remember the circumstances surrounding this agreement. I believe it was proposed POR6 that had commons being cancelled with no recourse. Then Sussman rode up on his white horse and said 'Whoa There!'

Then there was the infamous closed door meeting in which something happened. When it broke up, someone overheard the words "You should have held out for more." My understanding was these were words that were directed at Sussman. I do not KNOW that is the case.

At that point, the 75/25 split came into play.

For people that were not around during that timeframe, this is one of (if not THE) reason people continually mention KMART. There was a move to cancel commons and give final ownership of the corpse of WMI to preferreds. I don't know if they would have had the votes or not but I think they would have. In fact, I remember it being all but a done deal.

Thank you Sussman!

Would it have been theft in broad daylight? YES. But, so was KMART.

ANY time someone talks about liquidation based on book value, SCREAM bloody murder. There is very possibly larceny at play. I have never personally seen a major asset sold at book value where the purchaser did not get a very good deal. This is because of depreciation. The cost of the asset is depreciated down to zero and can be gifted with no effect on the P&L or the Balance Sheet when in fact, the asset has value.

Even for durable assets that are not depreciating (such as land), Book Value is a bad way to evaluate. If the durable asset has been held for a substantial length of time, inflation will make it's Market Value greater than the Book Value in most cases.

- If the return is so huge then why drag on the employee claims for 6 years and then dismiss their claims?

My personal theory is that it has taken this long to do the forensic accounting and forge behind the scenes agreements to remedy the assumption of assets by FDIC or JPM that may not have been proper to transfer. It is just a theory, but A&M has been collecting an awful lot of money to do nothing more than to check the balance of maturing trusts for all of these years.

I still suggest that the employee claims have been used as a temporal placeholder to give the court something to point at and say 'but we are not done yet.' I don't think this is nefarious. I think it is just a convenient way of not releasing some information that would not look good to most of the parties involved in the litigation.

- If there are so much money to be returned, there ought to be a leak somewhere, that JPM didn't get much from stealing WAMU or the hundred of billions have to be hidden somewhere that nobody notices it.

Well, here is the thing.... I can list several possibilities but each and everyone has been derided by someone. So, without supporting the viability (and opening up to discussions that I really don't have enough research to participate in), here are a couple:

1) Off book balance sheet entries (see what I mean)

2) Trusts (in various forms)

3) Assets that were hidden during court. Remember that there were allegations that JPM took the 'books' (i.e. accounting records) for WMI. If that is true, no wonder it has taken all of this time to reconcile what should have gone where.

And last as a general answer for other people, the evaluations of Dr A or the examiner were not for what are left after JPM took WMB, but for the value that WMB or WMI once have and JPM should pay more than 1.9B. I forgot who asked but at one point, it was asked for a return of 13B and that includes the 7B due to the creditors.

Like I said, I need to reexamine these documents. I hope you are mistaken. Furthermore, we know the examiner was complaining that he was not allowed to see things he thought he needed and the judge said it was ok that he not see them.

And SG knew how much we will receive in the ball part by signing POR 7 but it could be just between 5B and 10B and they recommended us to accept knowing that litigations will take money and time and we are may not win anything at the end.

Like it or not (and I don't), the preferreds could demand a lion's share (above and beyond what was deserved) as compensation for not freezing out the commons and taking it all.

Such as the employee claims. The people who settled earlier got something but the ones that kept litigating until 2018 gey nothing because their claims are dismissed.

Just as an aside, be sure the ones who got something early were not 'golden parachute' claims. Those, specifically, were what FDIC blocked.