THOUGHT PROVOKING COMMENTS ON--
---JOHN 8:58 ----
"RS reads: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e·go' ei·mi'].’” ( NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read “I am,” some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title “I Am.”)
However, in another Bible translation the latter part of John 8:58 reads: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE translations)
Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e·go' ei·mi' as a title to the holy spirit.
[url][/url][tag]insert-text-here[/tag]Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: “The verb [ei·mi'] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e·go' ei·mi'] (Jo. 8:58).”—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394."
"AT JOHN 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying: “Before Abraham ever was, I Am.” Was Jesus there teaching, as Trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title “I Am”? And, as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures, since the King James Version at Exodus 3:14 states: “God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM”?
At Exodus 3:14 (KJ) the phrase “I AM” is used as a title for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised.
The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: “To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, ‘Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.’ Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] ‘I will be what I will be.’”
The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:
1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.
1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.
1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.
1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.
1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—
see Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.
Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he “was alive before Abraham was born!”—The Simple English Bible. "
"Jesus—“Jehovah of the Old Testament”?
" Obviously, Jesus was not an ordinary human. He was unique because, as the Bible tells us, he enjoyed life in heaven before coming to the earth. (John 6:38, 62) He thus had knowledge and abilities beyond those of ordinary humans. This helps to explain his miracles and his outstanding wisdom.
But does Jesus’ prehuman existence mean that he was God? A teacher’s manual makes that claim, saying: “Whenever Jesus referred to Himself as ‘I Am’ . . . , He identified Himself as the Jehovah of the Old Testament.” Is this true?
According to the King James Version rendering of Exodus 3:13, 14, Moses asked: “When I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” About this text,
The Pentateuch and Haftorahs (Hebrew text with English translation and exposition, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz) says that in the phrase “I am that I am . . . the emphasis is on the active manifestation of the Divine existence.” Its use as a title or name for God was therefore appropriate because by delivering them from Egyptian bondage God was about to manifest his existence in behalf of his people in an outstanding way. Hertz says that “most moderns follow Rashi [a renowned medieval French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering ‘I will be what I will be.’”
This agrees with the rendering of the New World Translation of the Bible, which reads: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”
At John 8:58, once again the King James Version has Jesus using the expression “I am” in connection with himself, saying, “Before Abraham was, I am.” But here the expression is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or title but simply as a means of explaining his prehuman existence.
Thus, according to the New World Translation, the more correct rendering of John 8:58 is: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”
Clearly, no Scriptural basis exists for the claim that Jesus is the same as Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures. Even the teacher’s manual previously quoted admits: “That Christ existed before His birth in Bethlehem does not in itself prove He was God (He could have existed as an angel).” In fact, this is what the Bible teaches. In his prehuman existence, Jesus was “a god,” or divine one, but not the God, the almighty God Jehovah.—please see John 1:1-3; Moffatt Translation --1 Thessalonians 4:16 -Galatians 4:14--Exodus 23:20-23 ."
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