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Re: mlsoft post# 7789

Sunday, 03/02/2003 6:11:38 PM

Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:11:38 PM

Post# of 495952
I think that you read it wrong, none of the promises are absolute. For instance, he chose Abraham seed to be "the chosen people", to "Lighten" other nations, but in reality Israel was chosen to demonstrate to the rest of the nations how a vengeful God dispense his wrath. I personally want no part in a vengeful God, one that "Poked avon avot al banim" (revisit the sins of fathers on their sons...), that is why at the age of 12.5 or so (before the formal age of 13 for orphans, since it is not enough they are orphans, they must start earlier to bear their own sins <g>), when preparing for my Bar Mitzvah, I declared a "Din Torah" (in essence a "torah trial" with the all mighty, still in the various stages of appeals etc. <g>). Namely, I stated, who gave you, the all mighty the immoral right to dish out punishment on innocent children that had not yet a chance to sin (children under 13 have no sins of their own). I was quite serious about it and did not do it lightly (and yes, I had the fear of god in me of the possible consequences of my rebellious acts). You see, I came out of a period in which more than 2 MM sinless Jewish children were visited upon them the sins of their fathers in Europe cavernous ovens. I wanted no part in such a deity. I was at the time at an orthodox orphanage in Jerusalem, and I fought a mighty battle with the "authorities" to transfer me to an Atheistic Kibbutz.

While I have a lot of respect for the Jewish traditions, that stubborn nation (and "hard of neck" as the bible like to describe it...) that for 3000 years refused to die despite all the travails the almighty "chose" them to go through, from Roman enslavement to Spanish inquisitors, barbarian Ukraines like Bogdan Chmielnicki to Nazi butchers, and that is a minimalist sample, I still have my "Din Torah" with the almighty. That "din Torah" does not diminish from my respect of Judaism, or for that mater, the respect I have for other religions' traditions. Religion, with all its black marks, is still a major part of humanity, and unlike the bible that decided man was born "basically sinful", I believe man was born basically pure, sinless and good, and the sinning comes later as we grow.

Zeev

AZH

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