OPEN DISCUSSION BOARD

[JLS]

Pokersam,

I know you don't fully understand my point.

That's because you mix, and misuse, words such as fact, faith, existence, revelation, believe, know, evidence, visions, authority, and knowledge; and don't distinguish or appreciate their differences.

Consider some major Biblical writings which are the basis of modern Christian and Jewish belief. Consider when those writings were made and by whom.

Many, if not all, the major writers (and I could make a list) were imprisoned, often put in an environment of low oxygen and high carbon monoxide, tortured, made slaves, subjected to malnutrition, contracted disease and viruses while imprisoned, or eventually outright put to death (usually by what we would call torture, or given to the Gladiators to play with). It is no wonder that they would not eventually under those circumstances (while surviving, or if they survived) suffer illnesses and have visions and dreams and see angels. To them, death would be the ultimate gift, a sort of Heaven, and I'm sure they knew that death would take them to a better place. Who wouldn't?

That life, if you call it that, is not the stuff of divine revelation and truth and knowledge and authority. It's the stuff of hallucinations, and some pretty good story telling and metaphor and poetry which are the only things the Bible is good for -- in my mind. And that makes the Bible a group of interesting and entertaining stories, but not fact.

I don't mind using the word revelation. But revelation is only information revealed, not fact revealed. Information can be true, but it can just as easily be false.

As a child, I had the record (of all adults and children) in my hometown for the number of years I went to church without missing a single day. I received a medal every year that would form a string of medals that would hang from my chest when pinned to my suit jacket. I had 14 medals when I moved from town. I was 14 years old. In our new town I was asked if I wanted to go to the local church. I said "no, thank you". My mother, devoutly religious, always gave me my way. That freedom of choice never spoiled me, and I have always been quite the frugal person. But, too bad she didn't ask earlier. It was just that their God never made logical sense to me. So I, like hundreds of millions of others, made up my own God, and it makes logical, scientific sense; and it is both alive and dead and is everywhere, listens and speaks, receives and gives, and is both good and evil. Just like the God in the Bible without all the garbage and the collection plate.