Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[Jar]

Hi JB, you had several questions. For the sake of time, I'll deal with the ones most pertinent to the current issue - which is to define the problem from which we need to be "saved". The others are interesting and we can deal with those later if you like.

>If one is disobedient would not it be better for God to gently correct the behaviour rather than punish?
<

God does correct us. Our conscience convicts us when we do wrong. This may reduce future disobedience, but does nothing to reduce the past disobedience.

>What really bothers me about that is the degree of punishment meted out for what disobedience? Stealing a candy bar hardly deserves the same punishment as the one who constructs an Aushwitz fully aware of it's intended purpose. Are there degrees of Heaven and Hell?
<

The bible does teach there are degrees of reward and punishment. However, the basic punishment is separation from God and is fundamentally unpleasant. I'm trying to stay away from the bible for this dialog and appeal to common human instinct regarding right/wrong, justice, etc. So I won't say any more about this now. Recall we decided to not use the bible as the basis for the dialog.

>After death what purpose is to be served by punishment? Is it for revenge or to frighten others? Why should justice be preserved?
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God is eternally just and justice requires punishment
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So here are the premises and problem again. Do you suggest any changes to these? Thanks.

First - God exists. I must humbly submit to His commands.
Second - God is completely holy, good, clean, and pure.
Third - I am not holy and pure because I refuse to perfectly follow His commands. I have separated myself from God.
Fourth - God is just. Justice requires disobedience be punished.
Problem: How can I escape God's punishment, yet justice be preserved?