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The Most Corrupt Presidency in American History

Anne Applebaum on America’s backsliding democracy

By David Frum
May 7, 2025, 10:30 AM ET

In this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum reflects on the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, examining how postwar reconciliation—not battlefield triumph—became America’s true finest hour.
He contrasts that legacy with Donald Trump’s recent bombastic Victory Day statement, urging a rededication to the values that built a more peaceful world.

David is then joined by The Atlantic’s Anne Applebaum to discuss the astonishing and brazen corruption of the Trump presidency, how authoritarian regimes seek to break institutions, and the hardship of losing friendships to politics.

Finally, David answers listener questions on fostering open-minded political dialogue among polarized high-school students, why America hasn’t developed a strong worker-based political movement like its European counterparts, and how to think about class in modern U.S. politics. He also weighs in on the risk of data suppression under the Trump administration and reflects on whether his long-held conservative values still belong to the political right.

The following is a transcript of the episode:

David Frum: Hello, and welcome to Episode 5 of The David Frum Show. I’m David Frum, a staff writer at The Atlantic. This week, I’ll be joined by my Atlantic colleague and dear friend Anne Applebaum, one of the world’s leading authorities on democracy and authoritarianism, kleptocracy, and the rule of law. I am so looking forward to the conversation with Anne, but first, some thoughts.

https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2025/05/the-david-frum-show-the-most-corrupt-presidency-in-american-history/682720/