Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[fuagf]

nosey, I believe it is generally accepted that the 2003 invasion of Iraq was the biggest recruitment event for the Islamofacists .. do you quarrel with that? It is on record that many of those fighting against the U.S. and the other countries in Iraq are only there because of the invasion.

It is the strategic wisdom of the invasion 3 years ago which is under question and look at the possible cost of that stupid move ..

Lacuna Coil - The Secret #msg-12317956

2 months ago ..

Iraq war survey puts Iraqi death toll at 655,000

TONY EASTLEY: When it comes to considering the human cost of the Iraq war, attention often falls on the steadily increasing US death toll.

Nearly 3,000 Americans have died in the conflict so far, but according to a new survey this is but a fraction of the number of Iraqis killed since the US invasion in March, 2003.

Researchers at America's Johns Hopkins School of Public Health have put the civilian death toll at a staggering 655,000.

The figure is well above other estimates and the survey is now the subject of an intense debate.

Washington Correspondent Michael Rowland reports.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Up until today, most estimates of the Iraqi death toll stood at between 40 and 50,000.

These alone are disturbingly high numbers, but they're dwarfed by this new survey, which has the number of civilians killed approaching three-quarters-of-a-million.

The study says 60 per cent of the dead are men, aged between 15 and 44, and gunfire is cited as the main cause of death.

SO ABOUT 393000 MEN KILLED .. 262000 WOMEN AND CHILDREN MURDERED .. AND IN RETURN AN ISLAMOFACIST FESTIVAL

Now, there is a reason for this wide disparity in death toll calculations. Unlike other surveys, researchers at the John Hopkins School of Public health, relied on door-to-door interviews at 1,800 Iraqi households, rather than an actual body count.

The study authors are defending their approach, and their findings, but US President George W. Bush, for whom Iraq is already a political albatross, has been very quick to dismiss any suggestion the civilian death toll is so high.

GEORGE BUSH: Now, I don't consider it a credible report.

HE HAS BASED THIS ON CREDIBLE ADVICE, OF COURSE, AND KNOWS BETTER THAN ZOGBY INTERNATIONAL .. see below

Neither does General Casey and neither do Iraqi officials.

SURPRISE

I do know that a lot of innocent people have died, and that troubles me and it grieves me. No question it's violent, but this report is one, they put it out before, it was pretty well… the methodology was pretty well discredited.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: Last December Mr Bush put the Iraqi death toll at 30,000 and he was asked today whether he stood by this figure.

GEORGE BUSH: You know, I stand by the figure a lot of innocent people have lost their life. 600,000 or whatever they guessed at is just, it's not credible.

MICHAEL ROWLAND: The methodology of the new survey has been the subject of fierce debate, but some respected pollsters are defending the study.

John Zogby heads one of America's leading polling companies, Zogby International.

JOHN ZOGBY: The methodology of the survey, I think from what I've seen so far, is quite good, following all the rules of random sampling to the degree that it's possible in a country like Iraq.

I can't vouch for it 100 per cent, but I'll vouch for it 95 per cent, which is as good as it gets in survey research.

CREDIBLY ABOUT 393000 MEN KILLED .. 262000 WOMEN AND CHILDREN MURDERED .. AND IN RETURN AN ISLAMOFACIST FESTIVAL

MICHAEL ROWLAND: As the statisticians squabbled, the Pentagon was confirming American troops wouldn't be leaving Iraq any time soon.

The US Army says it has plans to keep the 140,000 soldiers now in Iraq in place until 2010, if circumstances dictate.

2 MONTHS AGO .. THE ARMY PLANNED APPROX. A 7.9% REDUCTION FROM MID NOVEMBER SOME 152000 LEVELS .. BE INTERESTING HOW THAT CONFORMS TO WITHDRAWAL THE DATES WHEN THEY ARE POSTED

(maybe that's part of their thinking .. "what you reckon 7.9% out, we get 5% more of the vote? Let's knock around a few more figures.")

The top US General in Iraq, George Casey, says conditions in the country are still very grim.

GEORGE CASEY: I think it's no surprise to anyone that the situation in Iraq remains difficult and complex. That said, violence and progress coexist in Iraq and we shouldn't be distracted from the positive things that are going on there, amidst all the violence.

TONY EASTLEY: The top US General in Iraq, George Casey, ending that report from our Washington Correspondent, Michael Rowland.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2006/s1762968.htm