Euro has cold pretty far south on the 8th...Edit... https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf®ion=us&pkg=z500a&runtime=2017113012&fh=18&xpos=0&ypos=0 www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/ecmwf/2017113012/ecmwf_z500a_us_9.png Edit... and cold is in the extended GFS so what am I missing? GFS https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs-ens®ion=nhem&pkg=z500a&runtime=2017113000&fh=30 /www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/gfs/2017113000/gfs_z500a_us_53.png