so you werent making a prediction when you said.... There WILL be a massive decline someday. it just a GIVEN FACT that will one day occur ... just like my statement. ok we're on the same page now. so all i have to do is enter the market on what you say is certain to occur and exit on what i said is certain to occur [ and in that order ] geesh - this is all too easy! Lazarus - slow to comprehend but kwik to understand