Foreign Correspondence

[otraque]

Correction!:Regards Israel and their insistence they maintain the brutal power ober the Middle East.
Before quotes like this came forth from Arnold Toynbee, he was viewed as the greatest historian that came forth in the 20th century, however since his reputation has been undermined smeared and degraded for the crime of speaking objectively in the manner of a brilliant observer of world history. He may well have been the greatest scholar on world history in history. And lives under the ludicrous sick dark cloud, that he was an Anti-Semite; this one of the greatest minds in woorld history, and with a deep gentleness of heart.
But o my, he said in 1957
<<"Of all the somber ironies of history none throws a more sinister light on human nature than the fact that the new-style nationalist Jews, on the morrow of the most appalling;persecution that their race had endured, should at once proceed to demonstrate, at the expense of the Palestinian Arabs;the crime of which they themselves had been the victims...to persecute, in their turn, a people weaker than they were."

-- Arnold Joseph Toynbee. "A Study of History." Page 177, Oxford U Press, New York 1957

i have seen nothing but much increasing the hardening of the heart from Israel since the time Toynbee speaks of.
So regards this from article <<Which, thirdly, points to the irresponsible use Israel has indeed made of it. Sure, it always justified it as its "Samson option", its last recourse against neighbours bent on destroying it. There is no such threat now; but if there was once, or will be again, the question is why.

A major part of the answer is that on most counts except hostility to the US Israel has always behaved like a "rogue state". It came into being as a massive disrupter of the established Middle East order, through violence and ethnic cleansing. Such a settler-state could only achieve true legitimacy, true integration into a still-to-be-completed new order, by restoring the Palestinian rights it violated in its creation and growth.

That, at bottom, is what the everlasting "peace process" is about. The world has a broad definition of the settlement lying at the end of it. It doesn't involve the full emancipation of an indigenous people that has been the norm in European decolonisation; only a compromise vastly more onerous for the defeated Palestinians than the Israelis.

But settlement never comes, because Israel resists even that compromise.>>
i just don't see Israel compromising not without a powerful move that would overthrow the present Israeli Regime by the Jews for Peace movement, that is much sympathetic to the palestinians: but the chance of that happening is as good as the Americans for Peace movement overthrowing our Washington power order(Democrats and Republican)
i remain in Toynbee in accord with Toynbees view of history as a whole as implied in his use of these words <<Of all the somber ironies of history none throws a more sinister light on human nature>>

Toynbee did as overwhelming a study of world history in history of man looking, looking for a thread of hope within it, a trend to the good; he wished to find this thread, this hidden tunnel of the good moving towards a time where it would be triumphant.
In the last pages of his 10th volume, it makes a startling conclusion to his life's work., and it is what people NEVER want to hear,EVER.
His conclusion, bluntly was there is no hope

Israel treatment of Palestine, was for him just another proof, that no matter what a brutal horrid crime that was in fact delivered onto the jewish peopls, once they moved to be nation, they ignored what had happened to them in their dealing with Palestinians.

But Toynbee is NOT pointing to a grand conspiracy, he is pointing to Human Nature.

And revealing his view of the Israeli Nationalist movement was demonstrating again that all of world history teaches that the dakness of human nature ALWAYS triumphs over the lightness of human nature, with only spasm of light rising, but then being buried.

What was his "anti-semitism"??? O my, his saying Israel has but proven they are no better than the rest, nothing is best, nothing is chosen? Well that is NOT anti-semitic.

Regards Toynbee pessimism, so was jefferson pessimistic, saying it was likely invetable what the revolution started would overtime dacay and be no more but a shadow of itself, and that only a new revolution could revive it.
Jefferson was an honest man.
Over on the ZTTP thread i gave the quote of Jefferson responding to the question "What will man believe?" with "The question should be what will man NOT believe?"
That was met with a rose-tinted glasses fellow saying that was Jefferson at his WORST!
Jefferson had said something this person did not want to hear,imo.