un-American?

someone pulling 5k sells they stacked the ask with? Hopefully MMs left on ask aren't working 100M sell.

when its all set and done either .05 or $5. Got some profit locked in and riding freebies so for me its worth the gamble.

Do you think their old accountants would have signed off their financials if they weren't good? And what would be the point of them lying now? Definitely not to help them sell stock as the PPS has already been destroyed by this point. But why they stayed quiet whole time stock got killed day after day is puzzling.

Weird situation and at this point hard to say what happened. Hopefully SEC sorts this out quickly.

we'll see what SEC tells us. Your business associates opinion at this point doesn't matter. Who knows, your associate might be a shortie LOL

halts never look good but never know. they might give SEC what they want and get this trading again.

its definitely a gamble but for those riding freebies its a good one IMO. if this company is for real it'll be trading in the $s.

SEC did a halt to verify that company can back up its claims. Now we wait and see.

Good news and this should get back into $s. On the other hand if company lied and mislead it'll get ugly.

Still holding 40% of my position, sold some .7s and .6s on the way down to get initial investment + profit back. Riding freebies now for better or for worse.

agree, locking in profit is never a bad thing. It reduces avg cost and locks in a good trade.

Still haven't sold any as I wasn't around today. Looking for 1-1.20 tomorrow to sell my 1st 1/2. News today changes the whole picture, this should still have some legs in the coming days.

BWAHAHAHA!!! nice call basher on that chapter 11. 5 bagger for me here tomorrow. selling 1/2 then rest at 10 bags+.

Who do you work for anyway? Name the group please? Know a fund was selling a ton of shares after getting cold feet and some shorters tagged along knowing lots of paper was still going to be dumped. You work for shorties who are finally getting squeezed?

BTW still waiting for your answer how E-trade in US lets you short OTC/PINK stocks. I knew they didn't but called anyway to make sure and... they still don't.

hope so. new high .37 few min ago. lets close strong today and run again tomorrow!!!

you are right. one step at a time. first .35 is big resistance for now. break above .35 and .50 should be next big spot on chart. small resistance .40-42 area.

filing would send this on its way to $1+ same day, especially now with sellers whiped out.

it traded as high as .52 yesterday. Down from $8+ without any good bounce. could see much higher than .50 assuming sellers are done.

usa etrade does not allow shorting of otcbb/pink stocks.

that day will come,just needs a little patience

just a matter of time before merger news

POYS its only a matter of time.

POYS hearing good things to come on this one.

very few roundups end up paying out as well as NWMO. But it does happen a couple times a year or so. There are plenty of smaller ones that end up $50-200 mostly.

not yet. NWMO was the first one I noticed that had a very big increase in people buying. MCII had even more.

I never had brokers complain to me in the past but when I called about my NWMO shares both of trading support guys that I usually talk to complained to me about being overwhelmed with calls from traders who call daily, scream at them, call them names, threaten with SEC, accuse them of stealing their shares, etc. One of them even mentioned possibly restricting buys for RS plays like this. Its never been like this before.

If these guys keep this up we may not even be able to call in our trades. Theres only so much bs and wasted resources brokers will put with before they say enough is enough.

exactly. Too many people play these now and they have no idea how it works. Instead of waiting for people to do their work they hassle and make problems for everyone. And by doing this they'll end up ruining the easiest way to make money for EVERYONE.

None of these geniuses know how to find these plays through filings so they don't even deserve playing them in the first place. Not even talking about them calling brokers and everyone else involved daily hassling them over something they don't understand.

"Sent By: 14thPGA Date: 6/21/2007 9:28:39 PM

Well, the truth is, it's MY broker, and MY money! If I don't make the call, who will? Now, don't take this all so seriously. It's one of my little gambles. I have many. I diversify. BUT, If a broker hires an idiot, then I WILL call the manager! It is what it is, baby! Chill! GLTU"

OMG. Is this funny or sad? Guy spends 20 cents and thinks he is in for a gamble. Talking to trading support is not enough. Lets call the manager. Heck lets call compliance, vp, ceo too. Lets bitch everyone out on ALL levels, it might get me MY shares faster. NOOOOOOOOOOT How hard can it be to understand the process? Transfer agent delivers shares to clearing firms and brokers post them in our accounts. Until TA delivers shares no matter how many support people or managers you talk to you can't get them. Why bother and piss them off?

Not looking for an argument but this is making me mad. I been playing these RS plays for years and liked them much better when they were done quiet. Only few people would play these and after RS there were less sellers which helped keep the price up. Companies doing splits weren't freaked out because 1,000 people with multiple accounts started buying 1 share out of nowhere and were due a ton of shares for free. Now brokers are getting overloaded with calls from people that have no idea how the process works. Instead of placing trades for others which could cost someone a lot of money they have to waste time on the phone telling same 100 people over and over again that they can't get shares. Just imagine having to deal with a bunch of angry callers who threaten you and give you shit all day just because they THINK broker owes them something?

I bet some brokers will start restricting buys for these reverse split plays because its nothing but a headache for them. Wastes their time, money and idiotic callers drive them nuts.

you do have a right to call your broker. But that doesn't mean you should without a good reason, unless you want to waste other peoples valuable time and make their work harder.

Broker can't do anything for you until clearing firm receives shares from the transfer agent. Broker can't make clearing firm move faster because its not up to them. Clearing firms can't make transfer agent move faster.

So how is calling your broker every day is going to help you? Does it make you feel better calling and bothering someone because you pay for your trades? Imagine being a broker and having to deal with 100 clueless, arrogant people who feel like they are owed something and their broker is the one to give it to them.

You pay your broker for your trades, not the right to harass and demand something from them they can't give you.

nice that should give us some more hype and investors looking at us. BHUB will probably go crazy next week.

Assuming it runs big I bet you everyone will be screaming short squeeze, kill the MMs and all of this will be running on a few groups pushing it along with lots of hype, speculation and rumors. Thats why I am here, hype making me money. LOL

yep, the crooks that acquired the shares through fraud and the goofs that issued them should be on the hook here.

Sparrow and Wong are probably screwed in the end but I am sure they'll have swindled a ton of money in the process. Whoever issued the shares at Select American should get some kind of penalty for not being diligent enough. MMs will not be held responsible for anything IMO

Of course there is a rule that MMs and brokers are responsible for delivery of shares. But as I said earlier in this situation the MMs did what they were suppose to do.

Brokers and MMs are required to make sure that they can deliver the long shares they sell by settlement. They also have to make sure ownership of shares of their clients who are selling.

In this case the customer used fraud to acquire shares which were delivered to their accounts. When they sold the broker saw their customer had possession of shares which were delivered to a MM who sold them to another party. There is nothing more a broker or MM could have done. Its not their job to look for fraudulently issued shares. Their job is to make sure people selling the shares have them and can deliver them, which they did.

You knew there was a rule but it might have helped if you read up on it before making assumptions.

SEC Rule 203(a) requires that a broker-
dealer selling an equity security marked long will be able to deliver
the security on settlement date without borrowing the security.
Regulation SHO's long sale delivery requirements, together with the
long sale order marking requirements, require broker-dealers, prior to
executing the order, to confirm the customer's ownership of the
security and its ability to deliver the security by settlement date.

I did some reading up on NASD rule 203 but I still couldn't find anything that would suggest MMs would be liable in any way in this situation.

The rule states that when selling a long position broker-dealer is required to deliver the security by settlement date without borrowing the security. It also requires that prior to executing the order they must confirm customers ownership of security and its ability to deliver shares by settlement date.

Lets apply this BHUBs situation. Some crooks through fraud had a ton of shares issued to them. Those shares were delivered to their accounts. Once crooks got the shares they went ahead and started selling them. Their broker and MMs did what they have have to do, checked to see if they had the shares and that they could deliver them by settlement date. Since the shares were in their accounts and were legit to the best of their knowledge there is nothing more they could do or are required to do.

In the end the issue here is not MMs but the con artists who through fraud acquired a ton of shares that seemed to be legit when they entered the market. I couldn't find anything in NASD rule 203 that states a broker or MM is responsible for checking validity of their customers shares. Their job is simply to make sure a customer selling shares actually has them which in this case they did. Unfortunately those shares were acquired through fraud but you can't make a MM pay for anothers crime.

Again, its not MMs job to check shares are legit. MMs simply take in orders as they come and fill them. They have no way to check the validity of shares and they are not the ones issuing them.

Whose job is it to check that shares are legit?

THE IDIOT THAT ISSUED THEM WITHOUT MAKING SURE THEY WERE ISSUING THEM TO A LEGIT PARTY.

those guys should be on the hook and hopefully they'll end up in jail for the scam they ran.

With MMs only doing their job in filling orders as they came they did nothing wrong. Can't punish them for crime they did not commit.

Think many posters are saying MMs are responsible because they know the guys that ran the scam would have no money to buyback all the shares they sold much cheaper. Their punishment will end up in jail time which won't do us any good in getting the shares out of the market place. Thats why everyone is saying go after MMs, they have money so make them buyback. lol Sounds good and I'd love to take the MMs money with a nice short squeeze but you can't make up laws to your liking and make an innocent party pay anothers crime. JMHO

agree

I do agree with you that shorting with no intent to cover is very harmful. Over time that would beat down a stock to nothing.

"will you agree that the MM's who sold the fraudulent shares into the market for the TA"

Little confused about that part. Are you saying the transfer agent sold the shares?

In the end if some MMs shorted with intention of not covering, I don't think they will cover. These screw up plays always end up getting slammed in the end. Just look at BCIT and PAIV. Both ran huge. PAIV .001 to .3s over time? now down to nothing again. BCIT ran huge too but ended up halted and still is to this day. All the $ MMs took in after shorting they got to keep while investors are out of $. In the end shortie still wins IMO but there is LOTS of money to be made short term.

LOL I am sure there will be lots and lots of pages. Good luck and make sure to bring back your findings and post it to us. thanks.

lol basher. Interesting how people start trowing the B word whenever you catch a pumper in a lie.

I am long and do think BHUB is going higher next week. That doesn't mean I have to agree with lies and bs some posters spread on this board. Stock will do what it will on its own, I don't see any reason to mislead others.

Good luck, I loaded the boat earlier in the week.

I never said MMs are a benevolent groups of companies that are trying to help us all out.

In fact I stated MMs are in the business creating a market and making money of the spread. They try to take a little chunk of the pie each time there is a trade. With stock trading .001x.0011 they can make 10%. With stock trading .002 they'll make 5%. Someone buys 1,000,000 .0021 and someone sells 1,000,000 .002 they make $100. They do this all day long, slowly taking away a chunk of our cash. I don't think thats helping us out.

ROTF Maybe you should ask the poster that knows this all so well and is making all these claims. If he is making such claims either A) He is making them because he knows rules and regulations or B) He is talking out his behind.

Since he has nothing to back up these claims and is now steering the subject in the other direction you can come to your own conclusions on this.

thats what I thought. You think MMs are at fault because you say so. They must check all shares before filling them because you want them to.

If you going to make such claims, BACK THEM UP. There are laws and regulations so why don't you post them to back up your statements.

Whoever requested, provided false info and sold fraudulent shares is responsible for this mess.

Also someone had to issue these shares and they did it without doing enough checking up to make sure they were issuing to the right party. They should at least lose their job, assuming they did this without any knowledge.

Can you back that up with facts? Show me any regulation or law that requires a MM to do that. I for one don't know of any.

How do you think a MM could "make sure" that those shares are real? Do you think all MMs are responsible for checking each order and then wait for days and even weeks for confirmation that those shares are real? This would slow the market to a crawl. Day trading would be a thing of the past. And it would make trading fees WAY higher for all the extra work they'd have to do. Just what we want right?

I know you want to blame the MM but what you are asking for is wanting to trade in certificates lol And even then you'd have to make sure certificates are not forged. This would put the markets 50 years back.

MM is simply a middle man between a buyer and seller. Most of their profits come from the spread between buyer and seller. Same with ebay, they make their cut for making transaction.

I don't like MMs anymore than any of you. I just don't think its right to put the blame on them because some scam artist sold a bunch of fraudulent shares.