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The only two scenarios left after the r/s has now come to fruition:
1.) Vanis stands by his word in the last newsletter and email to shareholder. This would lock up most (whatever that means) of the A/S so he can not dilute as muchon us existing shareholders. He has a "game changing" account and private financing in place and also a "workhorse" product to get us to where we need to be. They are able to move this product profitable and all us "bagholders" end up being somewhat happy.
or
2.) Vanis continues to do what Vanis does and dilutes many millions of shares on us shareholders all while pumping fluff bs at us with no real numbers. Thus, the stock will tank even more following the r/s in which he can continue to rinse and repeat the steps of a crooked (morally) CEO.
Now, you are either in one of the two camps as a shareholder. I for one am in the second of these camps and feel as if I am left holding a bag of crap. No big deal...I am not upset about losing money in OTC as I have stated, I invest with the assumption it will be worth nothing. It is play money. What pisses me off if the 2nd scenario continues to play out is that this CEO and others continue to get away with it.
Damn why can't that damn stupid penny stock publication ever be correct and Pepsi comes in and buys this from this horrible management. I have tasted the product and like it...heck, I liked CB and couldn't wait for VC to come out. With competent management/leadership this is/was a "rockstar" product.
Yea, I didn't even know about getting banned and having posts removed and what not. I try to just stick to a few posts a month or whatever, but here recently I think more longs needed to come out and state the obvious. That we are not all sheep who follow those to slaughter and that we can and will see through BS and demand answers. Especially if a CEO and his minions are trying to pull blankets over our eyes.
If I cross that line and get flagged or banned I will take my punishment...again, I didn't know that you could get banned.
I hope more long's continue to ask the hard questions and we all get answers..if they are positive or not, I just want to be kept out of the dark.
Your "personal history" with Mine leaves out the most important part. What is your relationship with Minerco and Vanis? Tell us, have you ever "crossed paths" with Vanis and any other management of Minerco?
I know many will attack me and say personal history is nobodies business, but I think when someone is as followed as you are as an "expert" on Minerco you would want to be open with your fellow "Miners?" Am I out of line to ask the questions above? Oh, this time no private message skirting around the questions...honesty is always best if you so choose to answer. Also, I again extend an open invite to meet up with you anywhere in KC. I am in Johnson County and can be almost anywhere in the city in 30-45 minutes given ample notice. Would love to have a drink and discuss.
Maybe we are trading where we should be and those other companies you mention have an inflated pps?
I understand your thoughts and if there wasn't 215 million (after r/s) that have the ability to be dumped on shareholders I wouldn't care buying now vs. later. However, Vanis had very little trust from me to begin with and now has absolutely zero. Why not just lower the A/S at the same ratio as O/S if indeed the share structure is enough to get us by? Doesn't that scream to you that they are needing these shares to fund operations further?
If I was ever to add to my position, it would be well after r/s and I start seeing revenue's to support growth and actual "game changing" news to warrant it.
You are no doubt a poster I respect and like hearing from and I hope you are right, we just have differing opinions on this right now. I hope yours is correct and mine is way off.
GLTY
I didn't sell 100% but did sell a bit quite awhile ago. I've always said I would be wealthy from this or the holding would go broke and zero f's given as far as losing money. I don't have anything in this company I didn't expect to lose...its Otc.
Now, why are you so mad that I point out facts?
Who says I didn't?
You seriously act like everyone on this board is dumb and you are the know all. Yes, you are absolutely right SS1. If the day of the r/s was today the share price would be $.12 and my account value would be no different. Quit trying to pull the blanket over the eyes of the shareholders.
Question for you? What would your current holding be worth if Vanis was to dump 215 million on us shareholders after the r/s? Oh right, you will just say that is an assumption...much like you did when I told you a r/s was coming because of what your boy Vanis said in a shareholder letter. Quit trying to mask the issues here. I for one am tired of your act. Tell Vanis hi from us "loyal" shareholders he is taking advantage of...oh, IMO
And the 215 million A/S available to dump.
I used to speak with Vanis via email every so often. I would email him a suggestion or question and he would respond immediately. It wasn't until I started digging a bit further and emailing concerns not just to him, but any email address I could get and I would never get a response. I know some on here and elsewhere have gotten responses...I can only say I have not had any response from Vanis in a very very long time. I can't say he is ignoring my emails, maybe he is just busy, but I find it odd that he responds to some emails that don't ask as tough as questions yet doesn't others. Maybe he got what he wanted...ignore long enough and eventually I will quit emailing which is what I did. For instance...I emailed Vanis and the gentleman that used to live in Chicago that did the social networking side of things (can't remember name) about sponsoring running events (marathons/5K's etc.) They immediately responded and thought it was a great idea and would look into it. Not saying they weren't already, but it wasn't too long after they sponsored or was a vendor at a run in LA I believe. Someone who remembers can set me straight what and where it exactly was. I then emailed him about share structure, the mention of r/s, etc and not a peep from them. Just examples, but I have tried and have since quit.
Vanis knows that investors aren't all blind and know this stuff...he either doesn't care or he is setting there saying to us to let this play out and he does have our best interest at heart, but there is nothing he would be able to divulge to me or anyone else. Only time will tell at this point unfortunately. Funny, this was the same thing we were all saying after the r/s talk hit the shareholders. We who were concerned and those who thought they could trust Vanis all came to the same conclusion after arguing about it for days...time will tell.
GLTY
Believe me, I am with you on your feelings/thoughts and the odds/history are on our side unfortunately as well.
As a long and one who has repeatedly said I am in this until I am either rich or my initial investment is gone from dilution or bankruptcy it is unfortunate, but I have to keep a glimmer of hope. That glimmer is that after the reverse split they announce private financing and major news that isn't fluff. A partnership, game changing accounts, etc...unfortunately I think they use that news to mask the issuance of shares to those people further diluting us shareholders of common and not preferred C's like Vanis and his boys created.
What he means is the share structure after the R/S would essentially be 25 billion increase to A/S without a r/s.
The R/S will bring the O/S to ~35 million shares (3.5 billion / 100 = 35 million.) The Authorized shares only reduce to 250 million...meaning that they (Minerco/Vanis) have the ability to dilute another 215 million shares on the shareholders. This means they now have 6.15x's the number of A/S to issue then before. So if the R/S wouldn't have taken place it would be the equivalent of having another ~20-21 billion more shares to issue.
It is confusing, but as he said this is what "masking" is about. It confuses the shareholder. Instead of increasing A/S to 25 billion thus giving them 21.5 billion to dilute at say $.001 they now have 215 million to dilute at say $.1
I am not saying they will dilute, but I find it odd that they did not decrease A/S at 100/1 and instead decreased it at a ratio of what 14/1?
Why are you so mad? And what are you talking about time and effort? I have posted 6(?) times in the past two trading days and before then a few months? GLTY Donragone, but it seems like you need to just read those posts by SS1 to make yourself feel better about your investment. I am just stating my opinion...no reason to be upset because it doesn't match yours. GLTY and I hope my opinion is wrong...I will tell you though odds are on my side.
I wouldn't call me the "savior for mankind," but I will say that I (a long) and many other longs/bashers who consistently brought this up as a concern and were ridiculed by those "pumpers" have been more correct in the direction of this company and its share price then any pumper on here. I am not trying to save you or anyone else from investing...personally I don't care about any of you because I don't know you. As a long, I am just offering my opinion and sharing factual knowledge I know. I am not the "voice of reason" on iHub you should be questioning their motives...maybe turn your attention elsewhere? Just a suggestion and IMO.
Should have stated "if you are investing" and not trading. There are probably going to be some very good trading opportunities come about with "dead cat" bounces and so forth and if you can take advantage of it power to you. Get yours where you can WillKillz and GLTY.
I would make the share structure more attractive. R/S would indeed happen...however, how convenient of your boy who you have "met with" keeps A/S at 250 million! Explain that pumper!
This is exactly what is wrong with this board. The bashers get all the bad rep for bashing when they have seen this play out 100's of times, yet a pumper like SS1 and a few others on here get the benefit of the doubt. They can hide behind their computer screen as anyone else, pump all day long, not show a single buy or holding in their account and act like the biggest shareholder on earth. Look...for anyone who has half a brain! DO NOT BUY THIS STOCK. If you are tempted, and I can not talk you out of it at least let the r/s happen, let the 215 million A/S Vanis now has at his disposal be dumped on the "loyal" shareholders and then make a decision.
Oh, full disclosure...this is all IMO. Isn't that how you pumpers do it SS1?
I absolutely understand where you are coming from md3423, but I am a bit more optimistic. I think he (Vanis) will do his best to make his company work and make him a lot of money, however, I do not feel like he is one bit concerned about the shareholders well being. Actually, after this letter and the confirmation of the r/s anyone who still trusts Vanis is blind IMO. I don't think we see another r/s, but I think we see a lot of dilution for them to fund the growth of the company and turn this thing profitable.
Lets hope I am right and you aren't although I would say the odds are probably in your favor a bit more then mine.
In a few quarters or even a few years this may be a good investment...for the time being I would hate to be anyone who buys right now.
GLTY
Scary stuff if a shareholder...I am confident that those (some or all) will be diluted onto the existing shareholders that supported Vanis over the last few years. Truly amazing he may take advantage of shareholders like this. It seems apparent to me from the wording of the letter that shares will be used to move forward. Hope I am wrong.
Thanks JToews19...that is what concerns me. The ability to issue shares. Going to continue being a blood bath for many months I have a feeling.
When he brought it up in a shareholder letter (I believe is where it was) many of us said it was going to happen and it was going to be sooner than later. I couldn't understand why he would even bring it up if it wasn't in the near term. Those of us that stated this were told it would not happen and the reasons why. No pointing fingers now, it is time to move on now that we know the r/s is indeed taking place.
Now, the key here is that "if in fact" the share structure is indeed "enough to carry us through" then there should be no further dilution after the r/s. However, I just am not that optimistic. I have always stated I did not trust Vanis. I trust Ezra more, but I wouldn't turn my back on either one of them in a knife fight. I have not read thru the complete document, but it is my understanding that A/S will not be decreased. This (if true) is scary as hell to me. What kind of hit does there preferred shares take if a r/s? This was his intention all along and the "loyal shareholders" are taking a beating at the hands of the man they stood beside and the company they kept going.
Going forward I would not buy another share of this until after the r/s and after I start seeing financials support the debt structure of the company. Positive financials able to move this company forward is the only thing that will keep dilution off the table...unfortunately I see dilution happening between the r/s and that time financials are positive. It is unfortunate, but many that have played the OTC game for any amount of time has seen this game time and time again and there is a very high percentage this will not bode well for those shareholders.
GLTA
$10737418.23?
21474836.47
Yes, lets discuss.
First you say shareholders should hope the 10Q "isn't delayed." I understand you talk game, but this is simple fear mongering. The 10Q will be delayed and it is every single time they have filed. This is a common practice among legit companies that are compliant with reporting. There is nothing fearful about a delayed 10Q...maybe it helps stop the downward pps, but don't we agree that the market always corrects its self over time? As soon as the 10Q comes out you and many other trying to push a negative agenda (save us the blah blah trader speak) will immediately come on this board and post the standard paragraph included in most 10Q's about possibly not having enough cash to sustain operations if things don't go as planned. So, no...I don't and I doubt many shareholders that are investors could give a crap if the 10Q is delayed...it is five days you get to continue bashing the stock until released.
NY VF sales: If you have read and listened to Vanis and Ezra speak, they seem to be in NY for one reason only...population. They basically gave their product to King to distribute, but very little resources have gone into the NY marketplace. Nothing wrong with that...the more people the greater the possibility to sell. Start establishing a presence there...yea, we could possibly agree if even putting it in NY was the correct thing to do, but I believe I read or listened to an interview where Vanis did this exact same thing with another very highly successful product. They saturated Southern Cali and did nothing to NY except put product on shelves. Turned out alright for the product...sorry I can not think of it off the top of my head, but I am sure if you take a second from your bashing you could find it.
Distribution into Europe: What is wrong with going after another major market? They are saturating Southern Cali per their plan and now they are tackling another large market. Economies are global now...I don't give a crap if we make money in Ethiopia as long as there is not another market we could infiltrate with a better advantage. Texas, Florida, Europe, I am good with either of these. Now, if we go to Montana before Florida I might see your point, but getting a large market and being one of the first in the space I do not turn down.
You can continue to say everything negative and present them as fact, but the likely truth is you have zero industry experience creating a product and then marketing that product. I think I will trust Vanis and Ezra a tad bit more then you on where we should be and shouldn't be distributing, what assets to acquire, and when to file a damn 10Q that won't make you or any other basher happy anyway.
Now...please shine your brilliant knowledge on all of us so we can understand your relevancy.
Honestly I was pretty specific in my original post. If you can't follow what was said, you probably shouldn't be investing in OTC stocks. Rttjr understood what was being conveyed and from his posts he seems to be knowledgeable re:investing. Like I said the price doesn't lie...and I'm a "long."
Ha...someones jimmies are rustled
And may I ask what part is BS? You don't think people are fearful of a R/S?
No doubt in what you say, but the proof is in the pps. There are a lot of potential investors and probably current investors as well sitting and waiting because of that pr that we both referenced. I don't fault anyone for stating your plans. However, the timing was horrendous. It sent fear of a r/s if you believe it or not. Don't need to rehash that convo...I hope for share buyback when revs allow it to get to big boards but no other way until we are trading astronomically higher.
Glty
Yea, I would find it very hard to believe this ever see's trips, but $.003's is where I have had my eye on ever since the PR that was a disaster. I won't mention it to avoid investors from blowing up my inbox, but that PR scared the hell out of knowledgeable investors and more than likely still does.
GLTY 90
So why are you here again? Seriously, your gig is up and everyone sees right through your bs. You have a pic of a Wallstreet bully from a movie to try and give you cred. You come on here and talk like you are a know it all. Go back to making your $50 trades and talking to everyone else like they have no idea and you are the only one in the know. Are you from south FL and act like a big dollar roller on twitter? Lots of resemblance.
Anyways, re the "news" today and really over the last few days. My take on this is very good. Of course the ultimate driver should be the financials, but we are not going to see those be overly impressive to outsiders for a few more quarters at the least. But, in order to get the financials to where investors believe they will be in the coming Q's you have to make deals and that is what Minerco is doing. Can't fault them for that. Those that have been here long enough or those that take the time to see where this stock has come from over the past few years can see the enormous amount of change and momentum happening in the financials. Are there still some negatives and "red flags?" Of course, but again those who believe in the management and what they are doing are staying invested and when given a chance investing more. I for one have about as much as I want right now. Maybe I will pick up more when I am satisfied with the concerns I have, but until then there is no wrong or right way to go about this. Everyone has their style, I just don't understand why someone hiding behind a keyboard would want to constantly talk sh!t on a stock. Maybe it makes you/them feel better...sound like a lover scorned. I don't know, but it is sad to read.
GLTA
It would make a ton of sense to purchase them at $.003 and then re-issue at a higher price. I believe Vanis mentioned returning them to treasury. This would tell me that they have every intention of issuing them again in the future. Why not just retire the shares if not? I guess you could argue that they may "need" the shares so you don't want to retire them (for emergency,) but then that would nullify the argument that Vanis stated that the current SS is suffice.
Pitman, I have been coming to this board for years and recently started posting. I apologize if I have missed it, but this is the first logical, thought out response I have ever read you type. I apologize if I am missing some posts (which I am sure I am) but normally you just seem so intent on pushing an agenda.
However, I have the exact same sentiment you do with re: to the talk of an uplist. I know Vanis himself never mentioned a R/S, but that pr was to me screaming r/s. I could not figure out and still can not why at $.005 and our share price bleeding he would even mention uplisting. A lot of me takes the side that I have seen and heard this from CEO's over and over in the OTC and they very rarely stay true to their word. The other side of me is got that glimmer of hope that this management team will stay true to their word and actually begin buying back stock, take care of the SS and continually build the company at which time the PPS will follow and then when the pps is much much higher r/s the stock.
That is why in OTC I play the stocks like Craps...once my money is on the table, I expect it to be gone. Every once in a while though we hit that Hard 4 and I make a killing.
GLTY
I have absolutely zero doubt MINE will be uplisted. My only concern is HOW they go about getting uplisted.
Thank you SS, that is more what I was looking for. Opinion...that is all we got! I am also on this side of believe in the future plan. I was just bringing up the options.
A conspiracy theorist could say he bought those shares to instill investor confidence. He also has many many preferred shares that would be ok. He is the CEO, what's he got invested out of his own pocket? A few hundred thousand? Be nothing compared to his large salary, his incentive plan, etc if he was able to get his company to big boards and profitable. What does he own, 1.5% of the shares? Sure he has skin in the game, but let's be honest, r/s would do little hurt to his financial well being. Many many loyal shareholders would be hurt. Why aren't insiders buying shares this low?
I don't 100% believe what I wrote above as being the reason, but you asked the question and I just provided a thought.
Glty
I guess this is up for debate of which only time will tell. I certainly feel he is going about things with shareholders in mind and taking advantage of an opportunity that is currently presenting itself, but I can't say if the Avanzar deal is or is not a good deal right now. Isn't it funny though how these "opportunities" just presented themselves after the fact they determined they needed to check off shareholder equity to get to Big boards. This is exactly why I am confident (IMO) that after it is taken care of than they will turn their attention to PPS and do what ever necessary to check that box as well. These guys want institutional money and I don't have the same warm feeling many of you have about how Vanis respects us too much not to crush us to get this. Again, just my opinion, but I think we are seeing this opinion felt by many and this is why the volume has dried up. All IMO, thank you Boris for the response...I think I follow up, but if not you will receive a follow from me.
What? You don't see why a shareholder would care about something that could have a major impact (good or bad) on his holdings? You aren't serious right? Speculation isn't something a shareholder shouldn't bring up since it is a possible negative yet we can speculate on positives all day long? I am confused...please tell me you don't just see rainbows. There are 3 ways we can get to $4/share and only 3 ways. I pray that 2 (Profits are astronomical or share buyback) of them are the way to $ 4share, but you have to entertain the thought of "what if" #3 (r/s) is the way Vanis goes? I started thinking about this and just posed the question to the board. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss, but simply asking someone why they are worried about it is not a way to discuss or even deflect the thought. I guess maybe (understandably so) you are simply stating why worry about it now until the shareholder equity is taken care of. That is a logical question...I guess maybe that is why the volume has dried up. Many investors are waiting for this very question to be answered? Heck I don't know...
Future, he never said it would happen quickly. I was trying to be very clear in my original post that I was assuming. See, I assumed since he was quickly tackling shareholder equity, wouldn't that lead you to believe he is trying to uplist asap? I am not sure on accuracy, but hasn't he increased shareholder equity almost $2 million in just a few weeks/months? Again, it is an assumption, but from the way he is tackling shareholder equity I would assume after objective completed wouldn't you think pps would be next? What is the quickest way to $2/$4 share price? Now, this is all an assumption. I could also assume free cash flow will allow for share buyback over the next few quarters and Vanis would be ok with slowly building pps organically.
thanks,
SS, I thank you for posting all that. I had reviewed those statements and I understand everything he is saying. However, I ask the question how we intend to get the pps to over $2/$4? He mentions how an uplist benefits all of us in every way. This is true IF a buyback is the plan (which I know he has stated many times,) but a r/s would probably be quicker wouldn't you agree? I hope he continues to build shareholder equity, but I hope it takes time. I hope that Q show up and Minerco can begin slowly buying back shares. My concern is only due to the fact that I see how gangbuster he is about building equity I would think that once that is accomplished the next step would be to get PPS to the goal asap. Maybe I missed what you were trying to get across with your post, I apologize if so.
GLTY
I didn't say he said "right now"...I went back and read my post and I did not see me mention he stated it. I did assume that it would happen rather quickly since he stated out of nowhere that they were looking into an uplist. He also stated what objectives they have completed for the uplist and what objectives they still needed to accomplish. Shareholder equity was the one he target and is successfully accomplishing this rather quickly wouldn't you say? I know there is still a long way to go, but couldn't one assume if he is so hell bent on creating shareholder equity than once that is accomplished he will try to do the same for the PPS (getting it to the objective of $4/share?)
Thank you for any insight. I have not had the time to read thoroughly thru all the filings lately and really have been reliant as of late on what some posters on here post.
Thanks,
So lets discuss:
1.)Can someone explain to me WHY such gangbusters to build shareholder equity? I am under the impression from the pr's that Vanis is doing this mainly to uplist. Is this assumption what others feel or something else?
2.)IF Vanis (as stated) wanted to build shareholder equity to meet the requirements to uplist and from how quickly he seems to be taking to his word, does this not concern any Long the next step? I ask, because as most know, I am skeptical of management in OTC's. Vanis was so hell bent on uplisting and stated market manipulation as a reason. This concerns me when a CEO states these things which sound more like excuses for poor stock performance. See, lets say he gets to the equity requirement in the near future. As fast as they (MINERCO) is able to do this, don't you think that they would quickly tackle the pps issue as well? 2 ways of going about that...R/S and share buyback. Who thinks we have enough free cash flow to buy back enough shares to make this a $4 stock? Of course maybe in a few years we will, but Vanis is trying desperately now to get us uplisted and I only see r/s ability for this to happen.
What are everyone's thoughts? Not bashing, Just trying to get some honest assessment of the way I view the past couple weeks.
No worries.