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One of us is wrong. Honestly I hope it's me, because that's good news for the mines who will hire people and make money and give Petro cashflow. But the experience of the mine owners has been very different from the theory that you presented. Like I said, if I'm wrong I'll buy you a milkshake...or I'll mail you a Starbucks card. Your choice.
Hey, where's my Starbucks card?
I'm in love with their chocolate chip cookies!
This whole thing begins, and ends with Petros assets, or lack thereof. A business must provide a product or a service, or at least in the beginning, the potential to do so. Were Petros asset values true, Petro, in all liklihood would've been trading by now. Legitimate professionals would have been falling over each other to get to such an opportunity to get Petro there. (and yes I know and thoroughly understand assets recorded at purchase price and value of producing assets. But at the moment we're talking potential)
With solid, legit assays, that field professionals who know this stuff, believe in, Petro would have been off and running. But because there was none of this (no underlying value) everything else becomes moot.
The shares are worthless, even if they had been issued legally, because there are no underlying assets to support any value.
So that's a pretty long explanation to say that, sure they could start from scratch, do it correctly and issue shares to everyone who already has them(how they would figure that out is anyones guess) but the shares would still be worthless because there are no assets. And I cannot see a situation where they would be allowed to trade with no asset value and audited financials.
It's an audit. In an audit you contact the people verifying the asset, not the people who own it, as they are not impartial parties since they own it, and are likely not qualified anyway.
When my company is being audited, the auditors look at our books and see what we are valuing our accounts receivable at(what we say our customers owe us), they then contact a sample of those customers to verify what our books show.
Inventory works the same, only they physically count our inventory to prove what we say on our books matches what we actually have.
The mine owners could say whatever they want, and have whatever docs they want to prove what they say, but if it's not from an accredited third party source, then it isn't worth the air to say it, or the paper it's printed on.
If they sold them, yes, if they just held on them, they no, they are just like other shareholders with the exception that they would have no direct monetary claim. Now they could file a civil suit for emotional distress and the like, but no direct claim because they put no money in to start.
And that's the point. The feds just didn't arrest and indict Owen in a vacuum. They very clearly stated he was running a scam, and outlined the detail to support their position. No financials, woeful recordkeeping, no offices, illegal share offering, among other things, and most important of all, no assets.
This was never an ongoing concern to begin with and the govt has made that plain. The website was ordered taken down, not modified, taken down. Owen was ordered to resign from the company.
Just the mere fact that if Owen could produce these purported assets, would mean he would not be in fed jail at this very moment, and free to roam and pillage, like normal CEO's.
So yes, it is a scam, and will be proven in a court of law as they concurrently fry the scammers.
As I've said before, you're a smart guy. If you were Owen(which you are clearly not, no net access where he is, heh)and all you really had to do to prove yourself not to be the conspiring, currency structuring, securities and wire fraudster you were made out to be by the gubment, was produce these $300B in assets, what would you do?
Produce some assets, or stand there looking like that "old man yells at cloud" cartoon?
New CEO? You guys don't get it. The feds have declared Petro a scam. Owen and his cohorts are just the perpetrators. Anybody STILL associated with Petro "moving forward" is continuing to KNOWINGLY perpetrate a fraud/scam in the govt's eyes, and it will not end well. Especially for someone who would be CEO. (they're supposed to be sophisticated enough to know better)
I cannot wait to see the unmitigated moron that would even touch Petro with a stolen 10 foot pole. They will have to create a new classification of stupid for this person.
Again, the feds are still interviewing people, there will be more people getting charged and likely end up in the pokey.
Enjoy your turkey day Owen!
You POS!!
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Um, "applicable laws"? What laws would those be? Prohibited by whom? Permission from whom?
What if I'm a shareholder that doesn't have email? Am I exempt under applicable laws?
This is pretty stupid. Just because you say it doesn't make it so. I challenge someone to find a legal precedent. I think the only real argument would be if someone forwarded the email and changed its contents and represented it as original. THEN you might have a case.
But really guys, this is your only defense? All the other crap going on, and you're worried about email disclaimers?
People are getting pretty nervous. I've had a few people who've been selling/transferring this crap ask me what I think they should do, what kind of trouble they're in, etc. I said first and foremost, find an attorney, a good one. Second tell the truth, because so often, it's not the crime that really gets you in trouble, it's the cover-up.
A week or so ago one guy mentions a pastor's name as him having been giving most of his money for the shares to. So today, this same pastor is visiting one of the churchs I do work for. He says to me 'you should stop interfering, you don't know what's really going on, we're doing god's work.'
I asked him if there was any symbolism with Petro in the fact that all of "Gods employees" dressed like pimps. So he says I should have more respect for the church, and I responded, I had complete respect for the church, it was he and his fellow pimps that I had major problems with.
This guy shuts the door to the office I'm in, leans over the desk(I'm sitting in a chair) and tells me I should be very careful about who I talk to. I asked him if that meant I shouldn't talk to his wife and kids about saving up money to put on his 'books'.
(Yes I know, I'm a smart ass, It's been both a blessing and a curse).
It actually went downhill from there(I'll spare you guys), with him eventually storming out and cursing! LOL.
There are a lot of people being interviewed, so this is far from over. The feds build their cases slowly.
I'm sort of ashamed of the perverse satisfaction I'm getting watching some of the people squirm though.
Hmmmm.....maybe that lady was right, I am the anti-christ. But on the bright side, I guess I won't burn while I'm in hell, and can torture Owen personally.
Where's the money? I keep asking, but none you hangers on have an answer.
There was millions funneled through Petro. Where is it?
Where is the corporate office? I'm in KC, and I've been to both, and guess what? No "world headquarters/corporate office".
Owen said over 100 employees, where are they? Why does Petro pay no employment taxes? Why did he tell the feds he is Petro's only employee?
Where are the assets? The feds say there non-existant, why doesn't Owen, or anyone for that matter produce some proof?
Where's the frickin'(not the word I want to use) audit report? Petro's gone through what? Two, three? and still not one audit report? I just finished an audit for my company, guess how long it took? Three weeks. THREE WEEKS, and I expect the report in about a week. We actually make stuff, so they had to count inventory too, and still just three weeks. Now I know what some you are saying. "But Pryme, Petro has $300B in assets, it's the biggest company in the country, surely your company is not as big, so it would take Petro more time to complete the audit".
And that would be true, we're nowhere near $300B, but I know of no company these days that takes longer than a few months to audit.
So come on all of you wild eyed optimists, how about some answers?
Anyone?.... Anyone?.... Bueller?
I personally do not care what those of you think about my "emotional" posts. (I would name you, but apparently the threshold for personal attacks is pretty low). This POS tried to compare his plight with the single most recognizable figure of the civil rights movement in the history of this country.
And he didn't do it because there is any correlation what-so-ever between the two of them, he did because he is a selfish, lying, cheating, scammer SOB. Owen is not worthy of being the tissue Dr King used to wipe his butt.
Owen is a liar and a thief. You cannot even classify this as a pyramid scheme, because in those at the early adopters get paid. This is just outright theft.
For those of you for whom this was "just an investment", "just a few hundred bucks, no big deal" well bully for you. Unfortunately there are quite few who were really hurt by this, and not even just financially. There are many people whose faith has been damaged by this because they trusted people you're supposed to be able to trust. I know of someone who personally pulled half the money out of his 401k to invest in Petro. Smart? Of course not, be he believed all of the lies, and now he's screwed.
Yeah, I'm angry, and some of you whom I cannot name should be ashamed of yourselves for pretending this toxic waste has a chance. Could you at least offer something to back up your obviously stupid claims?
Didn't think so.
Because there are always those on the fence. They hear Owen, they see posts from people like yourself, and they think, "maybe, just maybe this has a chance". And they never move on because of this nonsense.
Those of us that continue to point out the truth and ridiculousness of the idea that Petro has ANY chance are here for those people. Because you see, left unchecked, the lies get louder and louder, and people on the fence start to believe again because there is no opposition to those lies.
That's why we listen, and that's why we're here.
Why are you here?
You would be incorrect. Owen does see this board. But I'm guessing you already knew that, didn't you.
Isreal Owen Hawkins, you unbelievably pathetic, worthless, POS. To even suggest you should be mentioned in the same conversation as Martin Luther King, is beyond description. The difference between you and he could not even be measured in light years.
So NOW, TODAY it's the governments fault your scam's fallen apart? (hmmm...well I guess that is true). Strange you weren't blaming the government until you got caught. Remember, it was those pesky shareholders bugging the TA, and incompetent auditors, forgotten paperwork, etc. but never the gov't....until you got caught.
Instead of talking about movements, campaigns, and writing your congress people to get this company going, how about..... oh I don't know....... MAKING SOMETHING. Real companies actually MAKE STUFF, or PROVIDE A SERVICE. Hey, where are those audited financials you kept babbling about? Despite all the govt evidence against you, INCLUDING YOUR OWN WORDS, you try to continue this farce?
You are a delusional sociopath. The fact that you are too stupid to realize you're continuing to dig your grave is proof of that. A real attorney would tell you this.
A couple of months ago, before you were arrested, I gave you some advice. I told you to not drop the soap. I take it back, please do drop it, that way you can personally experience what you've been doing to thousands of people for years, first hand.
You know, this whole idea that because people are not shareholders they shouldn't be able comment, or listen to calls is just silly. It's only a problem because all the comments are decidedly NOT in Petros favor. I guarentee that if they were positive comments there would be no such arguments.
The first amendment clearly outlines the right to free speech, and is necessary especially in situations where the truth would normally be hidden by liars, cheaters, scammers, criminals, etc.
Watergate, and no WMD's in Iraq, are just a couple of thousands of examples where people searching for the truth uncovered the lies perpetuated by the "establishment". This board does not exist in a vacuum, and there are a great many more readers than there are posters, and those readers have been the beneficiaries of the DD and truth provided here, and uncovered the lies and propaganda spewed by the uninformed and unscrupulous.
I have been told by many they were very greatful for the information here as opposed to the dream scenario presented on Petro calls and from Petro people. Although there have been several offering real information, nodummy's collection and interpretation has been cited inparticular as having been extremely helpful with the understanding of what had been going on.
If your so-called company had anything to offer, the "no shareholder should speak" argument wouldn't matter.
Where's the money? For those of you supporting Owen, where did all of that money go?
Owen personally took hundreds of thousands of dollars out of the bank in cash. I think the complaint said between he and Teresa, they took a million dollars in cash out of several banks.
Cash.
$225/month to lease the "World Headquarters".
$30K to Performance Packaging.
$300K to various supporters.
And........what? That's about $335K. That leaves over $600 thousand dollars, IN CASH that's out there somewhere. YOUR MONEY.
And this is just the cash they took out of the banks, this is not the millions that moved by wire transfers, just cash.
Where is it?
You realize it was the IRS that finally got Al Capone, right?
But does it really matter who gets him/them?
Also, with frozen bank accounts, you can't take money out of the accounts. So when Owen talks about going into the bank and arguing with the CEO (per ND call notes), and the CEO relenting and releasing the accounts, that these are lies, right?
Not to mention that Citibank's CEO is located in New York, and I'm quite sure Vikram Pandit (Citi CEO) wouldn't waste time talking with a man about an account with a measly couple of hundred thousand dollars in it considering they are the largest bank in the country, and assuming Owen flew to New York for this very purpose.
So you believe Owen is in trouble because some people called the regulatory agencies and complained? About what?
What do you think about Owen withdrawing over half a million dollars in cash from the banks nearly every day thousands of dollars at a time? And being unable to account for nearly all of it?
The "World Headquarters" is in Missouri, not that it matters, this is a multi-state issue, thus federal intervention.
Tell me Red, what's your take on all of this?
Interesting. What makes you "know that there are assets", despite all evidence, and I do mean ALL, to the contrary? Owen has never been able to prove any assets, even when doing so would have made all shareholders rich by now, and thus sharing the blessing.
So now that the regulating agencies have stepped in and offered their proof of fraud, and gave Owen the chance to counter, which he couldn't, you STILL say you "know" there are assets?
How would this be possible?
Some of you, TOO many of you in fact, are still in denial. This post is not necessarily directed to the posters on this board, but a lot of readers that don't post. I have gotten a ton of calls asking me about this.
This "company" has ZERO chance of going forward, with or without Owen. Owen lied to all of you from the very beginning. There was NEVER any underlying value(assets)in Petro. The stock certificates, shares, promises to pay, whatever, are worthless. They were sold illegally, and even if they were legal(which they are not)they'd still have no underlying value(assets).
Owen lied, Theresa lied, Johnny lied, this ministry alliance lied. There was never any intention of making any of you rich, or even better off. Never. This was all about a guy who schemed, and plotted, and scammed people apparently for the better part of his adult life, and Petro was just his latest attempt to do so.
Theresa was just as culpable as Owen. The idea that she bought jewelery as an investment, is not only laughable, but stupid. What was the boat for then, a hedge? Johnny is currently tap dancing, and trying to save his own skin by ratting out his co-conspiritors and throwing everyone he can think of under the bus.
As far as getting your money back, there will likely be a court trustee at some point that tries to track down all the available money and assets purchased (in addition to what was seized)with investor money. But I can tell you first hand, it is REALLY expensive, and those expenses are paid with recovered investor money, and the investors THAT CAN PROVE they gave money, and the amount they gave, could split whatever's leftover, which is generally pennies on the dollar.
My apologies for sounding harsh, but the idea that there will be anything good to come out of this (other than jail time) is ridiculous. Move on. Petro is a carcass that is now being picked clean by federal and state regulators.
I, however, cannot wait for the criminal indictments, and will be in court personally to see this lousy SOB, POS.
Oh, and for those of you that sold this crap, plausible deniability is not an excuse or a defense, especially if you collected money. So you'd better start getting your stories straight. That is if they decide you are worth coming after.
Side stepping issues? Interesting. I thought I was pretty clear, but I'll try again.
Owen/Petro received Nearly all, if not all of ASWD shares in the reverse merger. Those shares were sold/are being sold for some indeterminate amount of money. THAT money belongs to Petro shareholders, the ones that bought these "church shares" with which the proceeds of the sale of the "church shares" were used to purchase ASWD, and should have been disbursed to the people that purchased church shares. So again, whatever money was made from the sale (large or small) belongs to the shareholders.
I'll give you a point for the mis-direction though. You focus on the amount, I focus on the process.
However, speaking of sidestepping, I asked if you got your share of the proceeds from the sale of the ASWD shares that were sent to Owen/PAC from the reverse merger. You've still yet to answer.
Here's your chance to clear up this small item. Have you received any money from Owen or PAC through the sale of ASWD shares given to Owen/PAC from the reverse merger process?
I never said millions were made on the sale of PTRZ stock, I said "whatever money was made", and that money belonged to shareholders. I'm also skeptical of the $8M dollar figure offered by Show Me, though because there were apparently a few million shares that changed hands during the last year (your volumes differ from Old Hillbilly's and Yahoo's) I'd guess that would translate into at least a couple million dollars. But I don't really know, and my point was whatever money that was made from the shares of PTRZ belongs to the shareholders.
Still didn't answer if you got your share.
And as far as Owen reporting his salary, why would he? He hasn't filed any pertinent information needed thus far.
Okay, so where is the money from the sale of ASWD stock then? Owen bought the shell with PAC money from the sale of church shares. When Owen received the ASWD shares, he sold them. So where is all of that money? Legally it belongs to the shareholders.
Did you get your share?
Granted, doctors, actors etc. lots of money, and little time or inclination to understand investing and markets. Also a given, that there are a ton of unsophisticated investors(I'm involved with several). But actual business people? Gotta be something else.
As a businessman myself, my first few questions would be, what does it do, where is it located, how long, annual revenues, growth strategy short and long term, other funding sources, what's the capital stucture look like, who's the management team, and their backgrounds, etc, etc, etc. and this is before I even ask for any paperwork. ANY good business person would want to know this, and this is irrespective of anything to do with the stock market. So if they couldn't answer these relatively simple questions, why even go forward?
These are the people I'm talking about. Why would THEY get involved? It's pretty easy to see the emperor has no clothes.
Question: What makes some apparently reputable business people, or just knowledgeable in general, get involved with Owen/Petro?
cnncit says he is currency/stock trader. There are supposed savvy investors with lots of money put in, I mean just real business people. What are they being shown or told that makes them get involved? Do none of these people do/get any DD?
This thing is so thinly veiled, what is it?
We've actually made a request a couple of times, but thus far have been unsuccessful. If you may know how we can facilitate such requests please let me(us) know.
I completely understand, I was more or less hoping to see if you might be able to get a little information. Wasn't expecting it to cause the commotion it did. Thanks for posting what you did.
Hmmmm.....Petro(KS) is not private, and Owen has agreed that it is not.
Pryme: