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I held...and added...waiting for the contract and the new product PR.
Who agreed this isn't a flipping stock? Flippers are fighting for it right now...you can't see that???
See...There you go...you found even another option...now we are up to 5 different options to help build the company.
I don't really have a problem with insiders selling some shares when it is used to support the company...and if it keeps us from needing to increase A/S or go through an R/S all the better...cause "those" were the only two options you presented in your first post.
Yes I agree...if this were NASDAQ or higher...AND if the stock you are talking about is not currently trading in pennyland.
You are still harping on fundamentals when you already have admitted they really don't apply much here...Only long term investors care much about that and they are in the minority in pennyland...it is a speculative market here...forward looking...
I do believe that we will need to improve on the fundamentals to draw in those long term investors who can finally help us break control from the "players" and finally move forward. That will only come with future revenue growth.
So what are your thoughts about potential new revenue from the PM line? What about the new revs from the VOF license?
NH...I have always appreciated and respected your doses of cold water...They are very important here. We do still need "proof", I agree...But my post wasn't about things getting better...just about options...it was only to counter someone else's opinion that our only options are to increase A/S or do an R/S...I don't believe these are our only options or I would already be gone.
We are under "play" to take the price lower so flippers can add. We both know this. We "investors" should work together to counter it...IMO...This is even important to those that consider their pre R/S investment to be "dead money". Hard core greedy flippers hurt all investors and they hurt the company...and worst of all they don't give a crap about any of us! First bit of good news and the investors here won't hear from them again until another "load to flip" opportunity comes along.
This is what they want...to launch their FUD against ETNL...draw investors who support the company into their FUD debates...and then to draw in those who still have an investment in the company but are not firm supporters of management...the flippers primary tactic IMO is to pop in when they are ready to make their move and try to turn "investor" against "investor"...divide and conquer...all to help them turn any potential new investor into a bag holder...which helps them perpetuate their flipper games over and over again..."Know the Players"
My recommendation to anyone that still has a stake in this company is to not play "their" game while we are waiting for the K. There is a time for healthy debate...but not this week IMO...We should take back control of this Board and drive them off...I have issues too, but I absolutely will NOT post them right now...not when we are so obvously under IHUB flipper play...I am simply fighting to protect my investment right now...from those who "prey"...hope you will support me...
Our feelings, I think, are not that far apart on most topics involving ETNL...I mean, when someone says our only options are increase A/S or do an R/S...don't you agree that increasing revenues and lines of credit are options? I know the LOC hasn't come through...but I expect the 10K and subsequent 10Q's to show trends toward revenue growth...this may in turn lead to an LOC.
New Precious Moments line selling well and a new sku code to boot...sweet. New revenues...love it!
Some people sure don't have a very thorough thought process regarding the options that Eternal Images has.
You forgot another one...line of credit.
You forgot one...increase revenue.
It's already upon us Dancy...I'm hoping it is the end that will be "approaching".
Unfortunately it will likely last until the K comes out...or the next bit of news satisfies the player/flippers selfish needs...Crap...have to churn through them one more time...including LFM's half million...LOL...Congrats to him for becoming a "real investor"...I hope he gets out of jail early...Does anyone know if there is a way to send him a card? I couldn't post there.
I "hope" with a full time person working on financials EI will not make us endure two more weeks of this waiting for the K...please Clint...meet the due date on your filing just this one time...and get us the details on the Matthews deal...and a PR...and a new license like this one!
Don't delay...Lurkers in jail...and I'm working the next three days...Bwaaahahaha!
So you agree with me...fundamentals do not apply in pennyland...exactly what I have been saying...they will never apply here...not as long as someone sees an easy buck.
Can you point me to the hype, promotions, etc. that were "propping" up the price when it hit it's low last December...cause I have been looking for PR's and following this Board pretty close...and I never saw it during that timeframe.
After uplist last year the company went silent. All that was left was a handful of hopeful posters that declined month after month...Many loyal longs were becoming PITA towards the company. Are you telling me that all it took to keep ETNL at .0029 when it should have been at .0001 were two or three faithful posters on IHUB? Cause if you go back and look you at the posts will see that there was just as much bashing taking place on this Board as there was pumping.
So if you are going to continue on this path of .0001 value I ask you one more time...Prove to me why it should trade below below .0029 today? The points you have made so far didn't amount to a hill of beans last December. All you really have is "fear of an R/S" to work with...powerful tool by itself...but premature today.
Thanks for clarifying CD...I didn't realize people were referring to the LOU as "being a contract".
The LOU is the stepping stone to the contract. There is no reason to believe that the contract is not coming. It should have the details we would all like to know, once Matthews has completed the design and the price points are determined.
BS...Calling for fundamentals again in an environment where they can not work...(i.e. speculative penny land) When a stock routinely bobs up and down by 50% or more in any given day/week it is going to attract some player from somewhere. That is what happens to stocks trapped in pennyland and IHUB is "player central"...IMO
I do agree IHUB flip/play may not always be the case with every stock...but anyone who has followed ETNL or a few other stocks I won't mention can easily recognize it simply by the timing of certain posters. EI is ripe for it right now...another play is setting up RIGHT NOW...the regulars here know that.
If you are right and the stock is only worth .0001, why was it recently trading 100 times that? Why has it never fallen below .0029? That was a real bottom last December...based on whatever miniscule role fundamentals might play in this market... When the stock hit .0029 it was "dead"! There was no interest...no communication from the company...peeps writing off their losses for 2009...there was never a greater time in my mind that EI could be on the verge of bancruptcy than December 2009.
Company...IMO...is in a better place today than it was in December by showing they can roll out a new license packaged with a manufacturing AND a sales deal. This is exactly what the real investors in this comany have waited for.
"You" prove to "me" why it shoud trade lower today than it was trading in December 2009. I have a track record to look at and work from...what do you have..."business fundamentals"? That's funny...remember where we currently are..."Pennyland Speculation".
Not gonna scare me out...may get some cheap shares from others, but I have waited too long and see recent positive changes. Like I said before...if we hit trip zeros feel free to shout "I Told You So". This same prediction has been made for more than one year and has not happened yet...The burden of proof that EI belongs at 0001 is on you. And buzzwords like "fundamentals" DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING at sub penny. IMO...the influence of fundamentals starts to quickly evaporate around .03. I am a novice and I have already learned this...I thought you were experienced here???
Now that the pps has shown some decent churn at .01 and we are back in the 006's...it is inevitable that the IHUB players/flippers will try to wreak havoc on the pps so they can load up for another flip.
Everything is perfectly aligned for them...
(1) Some cloudiness surrounding the O/S leading into a 10k that they can shoot some holes in. The guns have already been drawn.
(2) This will be followed by some anticipated news on the VOF line or a new license that will give them their flip profit.
We are just gonna have to listen to this crap as the cycle resets itself...You will know when they have switched from buying to selling when they become quiet again. I think we chewed through the IHUB players this last time around at .01 and then couldn't hold it. Paid promo and other things did not help...IMO. Even if the company that paid for the promo did not sell...it threw up red flags and that was the end of the run.
Some players have enough funds to affect pps. It really should be illegal cause it's just like stealing...IMO I followed the leaders and played along with it once on another stock about six months ago. Made some easy money...but felt sorry for new bagholders because I knew how they felt having experienced our P&D in Jan 2009. I have no plans to do that again...I have a legitimate income...no need to prey on others.
"Know the Players"...very good advice.
IMO...the "real numbers" will have to do with when you got in.
I took the loss on my pre R/S shares in 2009 and started over. For that reason I couldn't give a hoot anymore about all of the pre R/S pps numbers...other than to know that the R/S happened. It should have been anticipated by peeps with investing background if the company had 4 to 5 billion shares and was talking uplist...but the exact day was a real surprise. I was totally caught off guard because I had never invested in anything before. This was just a whim for me...at that time. I'm much more serious about it this time around.
I understand and respect why pre R/S pps is still important to you. Hopefully you can understand and respect why some are not concerned with it.
I thought it went something like this...but need to go back and look,
(1) Post R/S shares were under 200m.
(2) Officers issued themselves about 150m in 2008 which put the total O/S in the 300m to 400m range.
(3) In early 2009 they paid off a ton of debt from the start up years with something like 200m+ shares.
(4) We end up with 600m+ O/S at the end of first quarter 2009.
Again...Here is what I still plan to look into...and maybe Lawrenzo has the energy to do it for me...but I will still check it on the next 10k.
(1) How many treasury shares in 2009 were needed to maintain or grow the company vs. reducing old debt.
(2) How much of the debt that was paid off with shares in 2009 has crept back onto the books...if any.
These are the kinds of discussions that should take place here. Forecasting gloom and doom from "incomplete" analysis just leads to meaningless emotional banter...and sadly people going to jail for challenging it.
I repeat again...I believe it is prudent to dig into those numbers and discuss the details of the treasury share use. I think it is a weak analysis to simply look at total numbers issued and stop there...I haven't done this yet...but crunch time is here.
My feeling is that a new company will go through shares as they build and grow it...we ran out once and got hit by an R/S. The company has not been frugal about it in the past...IMO. Car leases gone now...so maybe there is hope there. At some point if the company is going to truly become successful this trend of treasury share use has to slow down and eventually reverse itself. That time has come.
If they need a 100m shares again in 2010...then we are in trouble unless the new license and the new division start producing right away. Some are quick to assume all of this is going to collapse and fail...I am not. I believe that the Matthews deal and the package that came out "could" be the turning point that many real investors have been looking for...some peeps say no it isn't. I say dump old licenses if they aren't going to produce...some say fix the old licenses and "make them work" before pursuing new ones.
EI has gone through major changes in their approach to entering this industry over the last two years. Today's approach is nothing like it was two years ago...I think it is better. But we probably all agree on one thing...Another surprise R/S simply to continue operating will tank the stock for a long time. Revs are what is going to save it. We have new revs that won't show up in this 10k.
what in the world has the company done with $5,000,000.00++ in two years is what should be questioned
Thanks Lawrenzo...
What I will factor into my analysis is to distinguish between how many of those treasury shares in 2009 were used to pay off debt from starting the company vs. how many were used for everything else in 2009 (i.e. growing the business or just getting by). I need to peel the layers of that onion back a little more to see what "I" need to know. Those details involving the use of treasury shares last year will be in the next 10k.
If 100's of millions of shares were used to pay down debt in Feb/Mar 09 (which we know took place)...and here we are in March 2010 with that same amount of paid off debt showing back up on the books...then I would say yes...there is a legitimate concern that a similar use of treasury shares could occur again in 2010 or 2011 and that of course could chew right through everything that remains. If debt has remained the same or gone down then I draw other conclusions.
There is no doubt the company created a lot of debt getting to this point. Waiting for next 10k to get the better picture. I also need to know more about how this new approach to rolling out licenses is going to work...how much is "our" profit margin going to be in these deals?
What are treasury shares for? I thought they were to be used to build the company. Are you suggesting they should not?
the A/S is just about shot, what then?
I'm certainly no expert, but everything I have seen suggests to me that fundamentals don't really apply in pennyland...Many examples down here that go against the grain of your logic. Peeps can't flip MSFT cause it trades around $30 a share...so fundamentals apply there and investors are drawn to that. But in pennyland...stocks are played...by individuals...by organized groups...by Market Makers...and even by CEO's...investors are in the minority here.
When a stock can be so easily manipulated from 001 to 03 and back to 001 again in a few months how is one to factor fundamentals into pps? Fundamentals...In a highly speculative environment...LMAO...I tried investing in this when it was pink and it took me a year to realize the pps has little to do with fundamentals...and much more to do with "which side" can gain control over it...and for how long.
I have no doubt ETNL will be pummeled this week by flippers looking to capitalize on the increase in O/S. If there is a pps decline next week it will have as much to do with greed as it does with fundamentals...IMO
Thanks Saratoga...same to you.
Too bad...fresh ETNL blood (new shares) in the water...guess we will be swimming with the sharks in here for the next week or two.
"Know the Players"
I've seen this play before Basser...just peeps hoping to get some cheapies...that's all.
This is all I am aware of regarding shares sold by company officers...I see Clint sold about 5m, Nick sold about 7m, and Donna sold about 6m. That is about 18 million going back to December 2008. This is from the stickie (Donna's most recent on 3/26 is not posted yet)...
TRACKING INSIDER SHARES: (5mil coming out somewhere and being retired ASAP)
Clint:
Form 3: 50,336,000 Dec 19th
Form 14c 55,336,000 Jan 16th added options
Form 4: 49,360,000 as of 2/11/2009
Form 4: 48,998,000 as of 3/4/2009 (confirmed in 10K)
Form 4: 48,152,000 as of 7/30/2009
Form 4: 47,577,000 as of 7/30/2009
Form 4: 47,477,000 as of 8/03/2009
Form 4: 45,477,000 as of 9/25/2009
2 Form 4s: 45,544,391 3/5/2010 – 03/12/2010 (BOUGHT 67,391 )
Nick:
Form 3: 31,500,005 Dec 19th
Form 14c 34,500,005 Jan 16th added options
Form 4: 30,525,005 as of 2/11/2009 (confirmed in 10K)
Form 4: 26,000,000 as of 7/20/2009 (gifted 3mil to kids, 1mil debt)
Form 4: 25,605,000 as of 9/04/2009 (personal-Tony has reason if you REALLY want to know)
Form 4: 24,875,000 as of 3/15/2010 Sold 730k over 3 days 3/11 – 3/15 – Loan to company
Donna:
Form 3: 52,455,750 Dec 19th
Form 14c 56,450,000 Jan 16th added options
Form 4: 54,195,750 as of 02/04/2009 (Court Settlement: September 14, 2007, filed as “Gift”)
Form 4: 49,020,750 as of 2/11/2009 (confirmed in 10K)
Form 4: 46,520,750 as of 3/3/2009 (Gift to associate)
Some very good questions...I would like to hear explanations about the recent O/S increase also.
I have a question for everyone..."What is the purpose of the company going public and issuing shares in the first place if they can never be used?"
I don't care if shares are used "responsibly" to keep the company going, and hopefully to keep it growing. When the 2008 10k was filed last year it should have been obvious to anyone who read it that they would need to use shares to keep this company going forward. People should have gotten out last year if it that is such a big issue for them.
What concerns me is the conflicting statement about O/S being reduced last month when it has actually gone up. I never saw the 5m share redcution...not even temporarily. The increase on the other hand is quite apparent. Expecting...waiting for explanation from the company.
Dodging the question I think...We all know how they originally got the shares.
You said they have sold 30 to 40 million shares already...prove it!
just wait til they report HUGE losses on minuscule revenues next week.. oh wait, I'm sure they'll NT for an extra 15 days so they can sell another 30-40 million shares to suckers at a half-a-penny before they file.. absolutely amazing, folks still falling for the same pie-eyed BS that's be going on for four+- years now..
today's close of .0065 equals .000325 last pre-R/S.. yet another R/S coming, mark this post.. (imo)
Truthfully, revenues from this deal is something that can only be "assumed" at this point...I suppose it is possible that EI will agree to sell them back to Matthews for the same or less than they paid for them...If that is the case I will be the first to nominate Clint for "Worst CEO of 2010"...LOL.
The LOU, although a "binding agreement", does not contain the pricing details that we should see when a contract is produced.
Could the entire deal collapse? That seems highly unlikely because Matthew's is designing and manufacturing the product. I'm sure they have enough experience at this to estimate the costs pretty close and know precisely what they are getting into. There should be no reason for this LOU to fall apart.
The Q's "should" show new revenue from this LOU in 2010...here is to hoping that it will be significant by EOY.
Yeah...NY has ST urn written all over it!
Their debt structure concerns me also. I think the new license "package" is a good step towards lowering the debt. I am watching for a steady upward trend in revenue until we reach net profit. Who knows...could take 4...5...6...who knows how many more licenses to reach profitability. We still have to probably wait months until we see what the real numbers will be on the MATW deal. But I like where they went with the VOF license.
At least they have let the car leases expire. I have always maintained that because they are such a small company they have the ability to go "lean and mean" to get through these times...but do they have the will power?
If old licenses do not perform as expected I am a proponent of dropping those lines.
TLV did you miss the announcement that EA has locked it's 41m+ shares up for 6 months with EI's attorney?
I think someone is confused about revenue projections versus profit...wonder who that would be??
Never can keep the dates straight, but thought it was the end of this month.
You're right Larry there are still details to come out...good reason for "some" to sit on the sidelines. There is a bit of speculation and risk taking involved here...duh
Maybe some day you will see something in this company that satisfies you...GLTY
Yes CD...That was a cut and paste from the link on the sticky note. As I recall there is also some language about adjusting the totals up or down by a set percentage. If EI can roll out new licenses with a contract to manufacture AND repurchase they should do very well in the long run.
This is the best position "I" have seen this company in since they went public. I know pps history doesn't reflect that but I believe management made some mistakes with the stock that about destroyed its credibility. That will have to be earned back slowly...over time. Except for a few (life support) nibbles here and there this stock was dead when it dipped below .003 three months ago. Little interest by players or investors.
Today the stock can at least "sit up in bed" and walk around and stretch it's legs again. I think the stock is going to become quite "well" as the company shows progress towards profitabity on the Q's. What did EA say when they locked up their 40m+ shares...Give it six months." That is the number Mid should be counting down from...not 60 days.
Small company playing with the big boys in a multi-billion dollar industry...I like our chances much better now.
That would change gross revenues substantially. My most important gauge is net profit...which should be the same if they reported it either way...wouldn't it?
Sure seems like a sweet deal. I don't understand the skeptics. It would be nice to know the profit margin.
You get a gold star Basser!
Aren't you glad they opened the TA...something that I would not expect if the company's plan is to scam me.
Now it will be interesting to see how this is explained when we were just told that O/S was going down by 5 million just a few weeks ago. Hope Lurker is right and there is a big turd passing through the system. When the dust settles it better be down by 5 million. Otherwise an explanation is due. The dust needs to settle sooner rather than later.
Look at the L2...ETMM has 100 shares up for $100.0063 each...won't be nibbling on those today...LMAO