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Sooo, they're going to make massive amounts and pay off jps by putting the companies, home buyers and taxpayers at greater risk? Yeah, lets go with that. Lol. No, and just, no.
You miss the objective here. Release as strong companies that need to stay strong after release. Your dream of government robbing for tons more won't materialize as part of a release. However it will not be beneath these a-holes involved to put the crews to ALL shareholders to affect a release. If they want to keep robbing, as some have said, they can just keep the current status quo. If they truly want to release as self sufficient independently owned & publicly owned companies, then they must do what's right, or screw the whole housing market and throw it into turmoil once again, at some point.
Wow! That would be great IF conservatorship was spelt r e s t r u c t u r e.
Also keep in mind, many like myself have been in this Conservatorship for 14+ years, so many here are just as much a pro as yourself. Now, if ya wanna really talk bankruptcy/restructure then I assume this is not the place, sorry. Every quarter capital is added, so what will the story be at the end of 2024 when we are at 150 billion? 160 billion? More? Still restructuring? Lol don't think so.
The companies operate much differently than they used to and will keep changing the way they operate due to HERA, so it looks like restructure every 4 years a new admin gets elected, or whenever the wind blows a new FHFA head in the door. The restructure of operations here is a joke mostly, but I wouldn't say the same about billions going towards recapitalization.
Also....no one has explained how capital structure matters IN CONSERVATORSHIP. Here's a giant hint, it doesn't. Will it after release? Maybe, but by then commons will be at $10+ just based on release.
You're still not understanding it's the courts job to rule on law, not to run a massive company via a conversion ask (risk) in a law suit. You don't understand they will never put the government, treasury and FHFA in a position of converting prefs to commons since there is absolutely nothing in the law that says that has to happen and the massive problems it creates. Courts are justifying FHFA and treasury's running of the conservatorship by ruling on law (albeit very stretched biased rulings), but if any settlement comes about, it will be one that affects the companies positive outcome for all, not just jps, not just commons. There is 5 billion for any law suit the courts can not bury, that's it. Believe otherwise at your own risk.
If they (FHFA, treasury, courts) were going to destroy the GSE'S for one share class, it would have been done long ago and not 14+ years down the road with 90+ billion of capital already built. We release no richer, but obviously all poorer, then as time passes, and release happens, the market will determine each investors value creation. THAT is not hard to understand, now is it? Happens every day.
None of the government branches involved are going to let any share class tear down what they see as their progress in running the GSE's. Only a morally determined congress and president will get us to people doing the right thing for release.
There's no way any court is going to provide pref plantiffs with a conversion! No way in hell. They barely understand HERA and have no idea how the GSE'S are being run currently. It's a wet dream to think one of the pref suits will provide anything like that. Remember, there is 5 billion set aside for suits. That amount makes no one rich and does not provide for anything near par or 10's of billions of commons for pref holders.
These guys saying suits will provide for a conversion are delusional.
This is the thing that really bothers me! How did Dimarco sign an amendment, how did Mnuchin and Calabria sign letters and affect amendments and how the hell did Obama admin get the NWS as part of HERA. aka the law? All this added bullshit was under various non law making people, otherwise none of that was part of the original law and thereby not passed by Congress, so how the heck is it law and how can the courts defend it? All those amendments/letters were not instituted by those elected to pass laws (Congress and Senate), and as far as I am aware, were never sent back through both houses to be voted on. So how does the judicial reconcile these added after the fact amendments and such, as law?
Another thing we should do right now as a group is demand all the Congress and Senate put all crypto into conservatorship using HERA/FHFA. Also any bank deeply exposed to crypto whose capital requirement that is adversely affected by crypto.
The courts and various administrations keep making things up as they go, but neither is in full cooperation with the other due to political reasons, leaving us in a continual state of undetermined hell.
Yahoo...sad article. Even specifies 100's of billions TAKEN and SCOTUS denying the takings. I hope many CEO's foreign and domestic read this. They better plan poison pills against government take overs.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-supreme-court-rejects-investor-144204000.html
Bradford won't tell you the thing that changed is there is a new majority taking over Congress, and for the same reason Mnuchin and Trump would not take on the last Democrat Congress, Biden and Yellen will not take on this Republican congress that is beyond pissed.
Organic recap goes on until 2024 and restructure was done years ago, so prefs in the same boat as commons...they are not special! Government holds the cards until a eunuch court system decides to grow a pair.
Not to mention, how do they propose to attract any new investor when they don't have money for a dividend, yet they want new money for capital? They are in a catch 22 of their own making.
Huge problem with all that, that no one is taking into consideration. There is now oversight in Congress as of tomorrow! Biden can "try" to do a release and steal more shareholder money, but you can bet this new congress wiil not stand still on any plans him or his administration have for the GSE'S.
I only see a grand bargain happening prior to 2024, or else 2024 puts us in a whole new ball park of circumstances. Folks need to not only keep in mind the judicial cases but also the changing political factors, of which, we have many with a newly seated congress soon, who is very pissed at the whole past 24 month Biden mess.
Look too congress as being a stop to any more Biden ineptitude and their focus on trying to fix the things that are currently in a SNAFU state.
Just my honest opinion! But the new congress is a fact and are putting all over the news that OVERSIGHT will be back in DC, no more avoiding or working around the constitution and laws.
The oppression of the shareholders, the perverting of judgment and justice is wrong.
Merry Christmas, happy holidays to everyone keeping up the good fight. Let's hope the new year brings us a judicial with a conscience and a moral compass that works.
Is anyone watching these Twitter files unfold? We should ask Musk to do a deep dive on our situation. If government will conspire to shut down a president and numerous others free speech, then they'd have no problem conspiring with the banks, which I'm sure a few Fed and Treasury officials have, along with a group in Congress.
You would think the courts would get out ahead of this to keep their reputations from being tarnished, but so far they've aided and abetted to the max.
It would be very interesting to see if there are internal emails at Twitter with folks at treasury or the Fed on keeping GSE's out of the news. Were people like Maria B. , his honor Richard Epstein, Ralph Nader and others who used to be vocal about this, were they or are they being shadow banned or accounts certain tweets being tagged do not escalate? It would make sense since every one of these folks seemed to drop of the map on this right about when the free speech of others were being blocked on covid, hunter, election fraud, china, etc.
We need to pay attention on what transpires with this FTX situation. I think much will and does apply to ours. The attached article is interesting in it's information on tax implications of those involved. If the government ever gets bold enough to try and steal the rest of our 20.1% common and prefs, they would be no better than FTX.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/ftx-customers-irs-ponzi-rules-loom-large
Saw that this morning! Incredible they are being coddled by government because they own and fully infiltrated government. Look for another GSE to the rescue AGAIN, to keep God knows how many from failing again.
If GSE's need 250+ billions to insure their loans, then how much does JPM, Wells Fargo, BOA, Citi group Goldman Sacs, etc. Need combined to insure ALL their loan business? Where's Yellen? Is she too busy pushing more environmental bank rules or trying to bully Russia?
You need to read this 2 part article by Don Layton, excellent read. Notice what he says about equity raises. It's going to be awhile unless government forgives some warrant percentage and senior percentage.
Everyone should read this....written not long ago. I think he pretty much pegs it. No get rich preffered or common! You stay as you are, but your ownership percentage has been dilluted by these crooks.
https://furmancenter.org/thestoop/entry/when-will-government-control-of-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae-end
https://furmancenter.org/thestoop/entry/when-will-government-control-of-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-end-part-2
The "get rich" feature kicks in as your share values increase once released and based on how many will buy shares back from the government. They're asking folks to jump back into a loaded gun unless the gov crooks can guarntee they wont take over again next time they are hard pressed to fund rogue government branches.
Biden can try to release with his FHFA head and treasury, but it will fail like others did, because something is needed by Congress. They had a better chance before midterms than now. I don't think Bradford understands politics or how the government branches and rogue branches relate to this SNAFU. He armchair lawyers the cases, verdicts with his articles. How many have been misdirected by this?
2024 is now on the table, IMHO. If Republican or Independent gets presidency, maybe more republican senators and congress people...we'd be able to see light at the end of the tunnel by mid or end of 2024 if a new administration.
I think when the root of the GSE theft is finally out in the open, and all those Obama classified docs see the light of day, we will find out that not only are the GSE's funding the FHFA solely, but also the CFPB. THEY WERE BOTH created exact same time with Elizabeth Warren and the group she was part of that worked on the whole misappropriation laws like HERA.
That's a very good point and also who we should bombard with Vancmike's letter. Who in the new congress on the republican side would be the most likely to be appointed to that chair that will be definitely pulled from mad Max?
American banker picks two! Tim Scott would be a fantastic one.
https://www.americanbanker.com/news/two-key-banking-policymakers-win-elections-other-races-remain-toss-ups
Excellent post! Sticky absolutely.
It's a rogue group of govenment embedded banksters, taking over a turf they were not allowed to have before, but now have usurped by the rogue FHFA, who if you dug enough, I'm sure most those FHFA employees were tied to various big banks before being made part of the rogue non government funded FHFA. Our fore fathers warned us about banks and their power.
That was a great ruling! It's too bad we can't catch a break on a judge who rules by the constitution like that. That ruling probably saved GSE money/capital in the end due to the tangled corrupt web in DC (Dirty Criminals)
People believe elections can't be rigged, but when you have vote buying, what else is it? Here we have the media black out on the GSE'S for many years now even though many on Twitter have been tagging various media people with a lot of good info. So, why is this being blacked out? This is a question I'd love to see answered.
Shareholders were never completely destroyed, so they could wipe all our equity and destroy our share price in the hopes of stealing indefinitely. Anyone saying our shares will be deleted needs to understand our shares are cojoined to the governments warrants. Same as the JPS and seniors. They did not wipe the shares of either to keep the actual mortgage debt off the governments deficit, we've existed 14 years without justice, but some court has got to see the unreasonable actions of a government far exceeding it's constitutional mandate.
Yes! The courts can not contest clause...since when do the courts allow the other branches of government to silence them.?particularly when a court is definitely needed to adjudicate whether a law concocted by Congress is within the realm of our constitutional rights and the bill of rights! The courts should have immediately thrown the whole law out due to that very clause.
Questions, if anyone can answer these, please feel free. I have but one post daily, so forgive me if I can not respond...appreciate any responses, I will read all.
First, now what happens to the class, as in class action? Do the current flyers they sent prior to the trial become null and void, and now the whole process of joining or staying out of the class starts over again? Will new flyers for the retrial go out?
Second, for those present at the trial, I am curious as to the jury make up, as in what were those women? All caucasian, half Asian, 2 were Hispanics? All over 30 years old or under, or all were 60+? Were they all dressed like house wives or were some dressed as professionals? A lot can be deduced from this information just as it was when the lawyers selected them.
Third, if indeed we can resubmit to being part of the class or not, does anyone here have a change of mind? Will you preserve your right to do a class action or sue yourself by staying out this time around? This is just curiosity on my part. Also, if Lamberth is reseated for the retrial, I don't think many have faith in his heavy hand on the scales of justice, so thinking there may be serious reconsiderations as to dropping from the class.
Fourth, would this be an opportune time to add the fannie shareholder class IF a different judge? Since much of Lamberth's denials were bull crap and many can be avoided now (hopefully, the P's lawyers are better schooled now). Was there ever proof to the statements that FNMA commons could not be added to the class because of their charter? Or was it because no one in the current class primary plantiffs owned FNMA? Different things have been stated, so I'm super curious if the FNMA commons can be added, or maybe they won't again?
Lastly, Does anyone think this is just another part of governments working with the judicial to delay as usual play for these donkeys? Is this part of their game plan? It seems as the delays pile up, that this is more and more of a conspiracy theorists dream. I'm sure I know where our friend Skeptic is on this. Lol
This is true! When you are dealing with a judicial system that is not only predjudiced, but can also change at a whim what a word means ( like before, meaning after, and vice versa - insanity), and also interpreting 2 or 3 words to mean a hell of a lot more than they do, you are very handicapped, no matter how good a lawyer you are. Now they are contending with a judge deeming what is permissible as evidence and what is not. It's beyond reason. A judge can sit and find excuses not to use any of those concealed documents or witnesses or damage models, when truth be told, they should all see the light of day.
It's no wonder the jury asked for a definition of plain and simple wording meaning. This judge has total disregard and semantic shifts constantly on words to aid one side of the argument. Just like other courts did.
Many of the dismissed cases and losses were due too not being able to get unadulterated interpretations of words and these semantic shifts, words that are understood fairly the same by you and I, but find some totally obscure alternate non-meaning by the judges, aka via bullshit reasoning. So....I think the jurors asking for definitions is great! I think they should ask for more meanings like conservatorship, temporary, rogue (as in decision making), Net Worth, investor, nationalization, just to name a few.
You would think a few of those jurors would google some information. I would go to the stock investors board on yahoo or google articles. But even then, all the articles out there are like 50-50. It comes down to if you believe the government is allowed to steal, over reach, supposedly for the greater good, which is the biggest lie of all. Even a small minority group like us is entitled to justice from a tyrannical government move like the NWS.
Thomas Jefferson:
The most sacred of the duties of a government is to do EQUAL and IMPARTIAL justice to ALL citizens.
The jury should have been supplied the meaning of conservatorship also. The generally accepted definition by businesses and individuals, not the made up rhetorical nonsense from government and the court loonbat judges that twisted it's meaning into a pretzel aka CONservatorship.
Exactly! Mistrial is something the lawyers should really be pushing for now. Get it out of the crooked Lamberth court! No punitive also WTF! Lamberth has done everything except visually back slap the government lawyers, he's given them a full reach around, which I'm sure is better. Lamberth is NOT impartial, and H. Hume should very loudly and vehemently point this out in court. List all of his favoritism rulings and instructions that are putting undo burden and biased finger on the scales of justice that is affecting thousands of shareholders.
With the country so divided pro and against government nanny state, it was not a surprise to me that there is 50-50 jury. Probably half republican and half Democrat in there, plus a few government worker tainted jurors. I hope,,pray they finds for us shareholders or stays hung.
Thank you for those jury instructions! I think it's total bullshyt Lamberth says no punitive damages, but does not explain why. That is one heavy finger on the scales of real justice. If the government screwed the pooch, they need to be slapped.
This is fixed by the government to follow a path to release in how THEY want to do it. Making Dimarco a fall guy and giving themselves cover to do a release via FHFA and treasury, in my opinion.
This country is no better than China, Russia or the South American corrupt countries. Look no further than an article that recently came out that gives the current government access through a backdoor to Twitter and Facebook/Meta to control information. It's a wonder anything being tweeted on this is not, or has not been wiped at Twitter.
But what if that one juror is wanting to award what is right? If mistrial, then maybe it gets a whole lot more interesting and more gets exposed. Devil is in the details... I honestly don't think any of those 8 women will be thrilled by being "talked down too" which I'm betting government lawyers did, and Lamberth, possibly. It seems H. Hume did a stellar job explaining in as close to layman's terms as you could get without insulting the jurors intelligence.
Also the judge is supposed to push the jury for a verdict up and until it becomes an unreasonable amount of time and those opposing just wont budge. They've sequestered jurors for full days in a row to puch a verdict out. I don't think this will get hung. There's too much fact that has been spilled. If any of those women are invested, which it is likely most are, then they will possibly take an ivestors position on this, which would not be well for the governments tangled web defense. If I was on this jury, I'd be wearing both my citizen hat that believes strictly in the constitution/rule of law, and my investor hat which believes in the rules and laws that apply to investor protections so we can invest in as fair as possible, markets driven by capitalism and NO OTHER "ism".
H.H. needs to bring up the current unreported profits in court now! If they are not made public by the time he does his closing argument, he needs to point this out directly to the jurors and let them see real time, the governments never ending manipulation of information detrimental to governments bogus tale. It should have been out days ago. Screw Lamberth, tell the jurors this cold fact. If they can manipulate an earnings report release, they can manipulate a hell of a lot more. The jury will no doubt understand that.
As far as nagoya's poll goes on what will be awarded. I'd like to see the government pay us the 1.6 billion , but we also get 1.6 in equity of FHFA and treasury. They can also never stop oweing us the 1.6 billion until we have a joint act of shareholders approving their release from the 1.6B debt . For every month they will need to send us the 1.6 billion ad infinitum, and our equity in both FHFA and treasury will go up that exact corresponding amount every month until we release them of the debt. This is because we loaned them the 1.6 originally, so these are our terms...
So put me down in the poll as a 1.6 billion NWS slow bleed return mafia favor.
There ya go! That's a perfect opening and closing line for Hamish H. to use. Beautifully stated.
Hmmmmm. What could it be? Uhhhhh. OH! I think that the earnings would have to benefit the company as oppsed to engorging racketeers in order for them to positively impact share value.
Some food for thought....
How come Hume does not bring up the fact that if the GSE's were in a death spiral, then what would you call the federal governments debt problem? How are they qualified to conserve 2 companies like the GSE's when they have never passed a balanced budget in my memory, for very long time (2001)? Letting the government be conservators of the GSE's is like letting a person with a TV channel shop-aholic problem, a bunch of monoply money, and 20 maxed out credit cards, be in charge of your checkbook and running your household. No budget oriented person in their right mind thinks government is financially competent. At the time government stole these companies, the government was in far worse shape than the GSE's! And that has not changed, 30 trillion in debt now for the government,mso where is their 10 trillion capital requirement? Why can't we the people put them in conservatorship? They can print monoply money all they want, but we lose financially everytime they do.
Maybe if Hume pointed out this side bar information the jury would start seeing this situation much more clearly. Also, where in the constitution does it allow the following to put a company and prvate citizen property holders in conservatorship? : the treasury, the federal reserve and a rogue non comforming made up branch of government the FHFA. I've never read it in any Amendment. Congress whole HERA is a bastardization of our constitutions protections.
Could be other case like moneyrobot says, OR it could be those motions filed at 1a.m. the other day, that were sealed.
There's probably a ton going on behind the scenes that we or the jury are not fully privy too. I will say it again though, Lamberth better correct his first ruling on this that started the whole shyt show. This has, and will have far reaching implications the next time a big company or industry is in financial trouble in this country, the next bad down turn. This is being watched by more than just us, I'm sure. Maybe not for investing in, but surely any CEO or BOD is going to be following the governments over reach on this so they can be prepared when their turn comes.
In my opinion..
It looks to me that Lamberth is trying to appease neither side. Like he's trying to play grade school principle between two kids that have had a little fight. He needs to wake up and recognize who started it and continues to be a liar, and who was really injured.
Exactly! The trading price has been affected based on governments "leaked" information to media oulets for years, which puts a stragle hold on the GSE'S stock prices. Maybe this case and future cases should focus on forcing government to do its job! To switch from its obvious unconservatorship to actually conserving. It's a lame excuse by now to keep saying Congres blah, blah, blah should act. Those involved know dam well Congress will dead lock on this and nothing will ever be done. The courts should see this whole situation for what it is, an illegal milking of the companies based on their talking points about some future release that never comes to fruition. The courts should be exerting more pressure to push this in the direction that FHFA, treasury have purposely negligent too.
Every day this continues, shareholders are harmed. The government is trying to make it look like their confiscation of record profits was a happy accident because they boo, boo'd in predicting the future increase in earnings, which stinks to high heavens.
Highest court in the land was absolutely not privy to the facts coming out here, so I have no doubt that their ruling can be re-challenged, based on what the outcome is here. The SCOTUS will look at their ruling much like Lamberth is looking at his past ruling now, a whole lot more skeptical (pun intended) in government defense terms...they were essentially lied too on the whole premise of this and sided with govenment based on an assumption that government ALWAYS does the right thing, just like Lamberth was, which we are seeing exposed as the big lie that every taxpayer knows that it is.
That is frick'n beyond criminal, considering how much they actually stole during that time period. No way in hell do they get to do anything with those warrants except pitch in the trash. This jury trial is getting my temper and anger up.....anyone else?
Brooge buddy, hate to see ya throwing the towel in! There seems to be a lot of pertinent testimony coming out in this trial, which is dam good for us. Unlike other trials where the judges held all the cards close to their chests, and then came up with their BS opinions, we actually may have a better chance here, I think. I am really hoping the majority of that jury are investors, like 7 out of 9. They would be very attuned to our grievances then.
Robert, I think Sandra Thompson should still be questioned by H. Hume...most definitely since she is the new FHFA boss.
Questions to ask her in front of this jury:
- will conservatorships with NWS's be the norm now for government taking over companies they decide are to big to fail, including other than banks and financial istitutions under FHFA?
-what is the plan to release GSE's ? If the answer is only Congressional action, when has a bipartisanship ever happened on something so partisan as the GSE's? Please elaborate on all the "action" from congress on this in the past 14 years. Action by congress has now been the response for 14 years, so when is it happening?
Do you see all investors as a benefit to the GSE situation? Or are they nothing but evil hedge funds? (After this question is answered read off a list of personal investors) 100's of or thousands to make a point! Humanize our situation so jury can see the miscarriage of conservatorship going on.
-true or false, is the running and viability of the FHFA overly dependent on GSE's profits sweep? If no, explain where FHFA then gets its funding for operations since they are not funded by congress.
-please list actual steps you've taken since being appointed FHFA, needed to release the GSE's. Also list what you've enacted for affordable housing and where the financing for that affordable housing comes from. (She's absolutely done more to hurt than help release, spent billions)
Do the GSE's need investors? If yes, then should investors, like in most all other companies, benefit from the risk of their capital invested?
Does the FHFA adhere to capitalist market principles? If yes, how, in your opinion, does a NWS of a companies profits serve as a conservation tool? Does it strengthen or weaken the current GSE's? How does it strengthen or weaken in your opinion?
I could go on...but these questions I think many of us would love to know, and only she can answer....so since she is essentially the CEO/CFO/Cairman of the board concerning everything GSE, and since those appointed to those positions are nothing more than government lackeys who follow her marching orders, she needs to be pressed hard by Hume to demonstrate how dire and politically cluster fuc'd our situation truly is now, and in the future.
MIA, your position and thoughts on this whole messed up government take over are much the same as mine.
I am delegated to the 1 post a day crowd for quite some time now. I read this board, yahoo and the tweets that everyone posts. By the way.....Thank you to all who are providing court updates, links, daily play by play. Especially thanks to those actually going to the court personally.
If this jury has any principles, morals, then we will get a fair shake. Lamberth had better not cloudy up the end verdict by stipulating onerous jury instructions at the end. If he does this, then we all know he is still putting tge fix in for the government cartel.
Right there with you MIA!. I'm not buying the governments kabuki theater show. They absolutely know they could not bankrupt the GSE's and it is why Ombama got so bent about it, hence the takeover by theft disguised as a death spiral NWS elaborated with a bunch of made up terms and excuses. This was not only a nationalisation by theft but a way for them to try and keep the markets from punishing the government and economy, if they would have ever portended the GSE'S were bankrupt. The Obama administration shut their yap real quick after mentioning bankruptcy a few times, testing the markets, business medias reaction and banks reactions.
They know, and have known the GSE'S are TINA and to big to fail. This whole being held in limbo is a jointly supported, behind the scenes ploy put together by some players on both sides of the aisle, that has become an administration football for every new administration elected. Total farce and deep state endeavor.
My thoughts are it can not keep going on forever, somethings gotta give eventually. Maybe the same group who was vocal and the cause of the GSE CONservatorships (the banks) will be the ones who finally are made to demand them being released, and/or sue the government to release? The government is actually treating the banks worse by stealing all profits, controlling G-fees, mandating loan rules, etc., God knows what else, and that keeps chipping away at banks loan profits, so slowly bleeding the banks by using the GSE'S politically, which most banks do not want, I believe.
Thankfully this case IS getting some much needed exposure! Hopefully more media will start to get engaged as the truth is trickled out during this trial. I'm with those here who are saying that any win in this trial bodes well for us. Existing cases will have more "ammo" to go after the government and maybe, just maybe some of the numerous cases dismissed by other courts can be resuscitated and brought back to life.
This is what white collar robbery with a pen looks like.