Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
... Let's Throw This Around The Table ...
I saw a few responses that I found interesting ...
1st; to answer pm's question ... Yes' this would only be a consideration, regarding "illiquid" assets, Trusts, as returns to the Liquidating Trust' from the FDIC' and would involve a potential ~ "stock for transfer" event from our own WMIH' ...
2nd; to JB's response ... I'm not sure regarding ratio's ... However, I would like for anyone considering this following (8 ball) to chime in on' ...
3rd; to W3Reasearch'; ... Yes' I believe the boyzzz' had this all planned from the onset' ... again, there were not a lot of changes between Plan 6 and the approved Plan 7 other than equitys inclusion' ...
-----------------------------
So Okay' ... I'll take a shot at it' ~ to open up the discussion' ...
OK' first let me say that I believe the amounts of dollar values related to the illiquid Trust returns, coming from the FDIC to our own Liquidating Trust to be massive' ... and I do not envision how WMIH has enough of anything' to handle us in one quick swoop .... SO' ... In my opinion, this has to be a multi phased event' moving forward (IMO) ...
let's say, WMIH wanted to initialize a total of an additional 500 million shares to achieve a "stock for value" event from the LT'... ~ 200m shares out now, when the B's convert there is what ? 600m more shares, for a total of 1.3 billion out' at the final ... (200m + the 600m for the B's + an additional 500m shares needed, for the stock for value consideration) ... the first round, if you will ... (I believe there will be multiple tiered rounds as the stock price begins to increase ...)
See how this would work;
The First Round' ... So, ... 1.3 billion total shares out at the current price of $2.25 per' ... this would make the company's market cap be $2.925 billion dollars out of the gate' or ending within the first round of a "stock for value" event' equally 2.92 billion dollars worth of Trust illiquid asset value to be considered' ...
The company has now moved off of the OTC and can experience a conservative P/E ratio of a multiple of 4 ... making the stock move to a conservative price of $9.00 ($2.25 X 4) and a market cap of ($2.92 billion X 4 or a market cap of $11.7 billion) ...
Second Round' ... WMIH is now, settled in and ready for more' ... (The LT is still holding a whole bunch of illiquid assets) ...
The company now approves an additional 500m share release and everyone approves an additional "stock for value" of 500 million more shares only now at the second round values', worth 500m X $9.00 per share or a value to WMIH from the LT of $4.5 billion dollars more (Trust Values are being diminished while the company's value is increasing) ...
So now the company has, at a multiple of 4 ... a value of 4.5b + 11.7b = 16.2 billion + 4.5 X 4 for the additional, or a total market cap of 16.2b plus the new 18b = 34.2 billion dollars'
WMIH is now after two rounds, using a conservative multiple of 4 throughout' ... a 32.2 billion dollar company with 1.8 billion shares outstanding ... ($32.2 b / 1.8 shares = WMIH share value at $17.88 per share' )
So, ... of course this is just my own speculation, however, I hope as I have presented, this ends up being a very viable move forward for all involved ... (especially the escrow tracking marker holders, since at every round, not only do they receive additional stock for value WMIH shares, but the WMIH share price and market cap increase also' ... a win win win for everyone' ...
As everyone can see, as this hypothetical model progresses, after a few more rounds (maybe a round three, four or five) this stock is rockin' and the escrow tracking marker holders, which released have actually received a "comprehensive fair and reasonable recovery" as stated' ... an increased amount of WMIH shares, which could be sold at will, plus an increased WMIH share value'
Thanks for listening ...
AZ
... Nurse' ... No, let me Explain' ...
An "individuals" amount of transitional escrow tracking markers ~ is merely a tool to be utilized within a calculation of what a releasing party would receive ~ as a return to the LT', ... I am sure we are all very different within our holdings ... some of us hold K's, Some P's some uq's and some of us held a transitioning position in all equity transitional markers ...
The ~ amount ~ or "stock for value" shares one would receive fro WMIH would be measured by ones amount of escrow tracking markers only ...
Escrow Tracking Markers will stay within ones accounts until the entire receivership has been finalized ... (IMO' quite a long time out yet')
Does That help ?
AZ
... (8 Ball) My Speculation Moving Forward ...
Smart money or an increased volume buying, at these prices, speculating on a substantial stock price pop or increase, is not being experienced, due to the possibilities, that the WMIH share price, as a stand alone consideration, will not vary to far from where we are currently priced ... this current trading range / and the rights offering pricing structure we have been witnessing' or this $2.00 per share ratio' ...
In my opinion, I believe illiquid assets' (as researched, in the form of returning WMI owned Trusts Assets) will soon be returned to the original debtors estate by the FDIC' ~ subsequently, WMIH' will offer a "stock for value" transitional event utilizing its soon to be approved increase of 3.5 billion share allowance' and obtain ownership of these retuning assets. dealing directly with the owners of the original debtors estate, ~ the holders of the tracking markers' ...
A possible WMIH' issued "stock for value" allowance to the original owners of the WMI estate via the current owners of the ( -esc ) tracking markers or the Liquidating Estate' ...
In my opinion, ... "cash" ... returns from "R" which I also believe are available, ... will be held up, for awhile longer, as the Bankruptcy Court works its way through a few remaining issues and legally adheres to the approved Plan 7's designated PayOut Matrix ~ Attachment H' ...
Again, In My Opinion, This allows the company to move forward, and as a "stock for value" offering' ... the Company, WMIH, is able to buy-pass Attachment H' and be in a position to achieve value for the "illiquid returning assets"
This action would benefit ... existing owners of the LT (marker holders that released') and also benefit the new company moving forward ...
A transaction such as this would allow a "comprehensive fair and reasonable recovery" (as stated) to be experienced initially, by those equity participants which received escrow tracking markers via their submitted release, ... and would NOT allow a financial flow over to speculators which purchased WMIH stock since the March 2012 transitional event as we experienced our reorganization'
AZ
... Well, Again and Respectfully ...
... As you seem to have a need to continue' ... The argument on an internet message board regarding the validity of what you type within a post, is apparently, much more important to you than the factual sequence of events regarding this case and the proper dissection of the filings and legal documents as they have been applied to this case' ...
... In my opinion, you fail terribly on many of the subjects discussed ... the simplest being, your obvious inability to consider the separations between the WMI Bankruptcy Limitations' and the FDIC's Seizure of WMB, separated at their inception by an FDIC issued Purchase and Assumption Agreement' ... How do I even begin to take you seriously, when you fail at the onset' with such a determining document' ? ...
And, Yes to answer you' I do, sort of seems like childish banter regarding a misconception that you actually brought up' to begin with, ... which, of course, is not true and due to that particular fact, I won't participate in discussing with you' ...
... tzebedee' ~ I hope this is allowed here' ...
However, I am not signed in on this discussion board often, but I did want to take a moment. and let you know that I have learned a lot from your postings regarding the charts etc ... chart reading is not my skillset' ... however, please know, that when you post ... I do my very best to follow ...
Thank You
AZ
... Sorry, No' You Did Not Help' ...
You' may believe you helped' ... however, believe me, S&G needed no help' as you put it' ... and as you appear to have placed yourself on that pillar' ... again, my intentions are not to individualize, or upset anyone' ... however ... only ONE' individual representer actually aided within the entire endeavor, ... and that was Nate' ...
... Actually, In my own opinion, I believe your misinterpretations and inexperience within the complexity of the events ... have had the potential to cause others financial damage' ... I surely would hope that is not the case' ... however, as you remember, I do go back a ways' as a participant' ...
... Well, Your' Presented Interpretations Would Dictate Otherwise ...
believe me, your own postings, over the years have been complete evidence of your legal inexperience and misunderstanding of these filings and legal documents'
Your own postings of your understanding' of what you believe has been legally presented, has certainly been a presentation of their certain complex nature to your own understanding ... That' has become obvious to many who monitor this particular discussion board ...
... I am not interested in publically disparaging you or anyone' at all' ... however, your own presentations are the best proof moving forward of your inability to understand the complexity of this case' and the intricate workings of the Plan moving forward' ...
AZ
... Well, Yes, I'm Sure You May Be Reading' ...
... However, what you are reading and the application of your inexperienced' interpretations, is what is flawed ... as you believe your interpretations to dictate the "facts" ... I have to inform you, again, respectfully ~ they do not' ...
Please, do not be discouraged, ... these complex documents and filings were prepared at the highest level ... on purpose' ... these are "world class firms" ... presenting at the top of their game'
AZ
... Respectfully, ...
I find your interpretations of the Legal Filings and Relevant Documents regarding this WaMu Case'... Flawed, incomplete, and seriously misunderstood ...
... An honest and frequent mistake made by the inexperienced, within an endeavor as legally complex as WaMu' ...
Good Luck to You and Everyone' ... I hope everyone does well'
AZ
... Well, Let Me Say ...
As I view things, there are quite a few skilled message board posters, I guess the amounts of posts and the frequency of posts would dictate that observation ... however, ... numerous legal misunderstandings and misinterpretations, seem to be the "rule of the day"
... Many seem to present information in an extremely flawed and limited manner, just about every time many post' ... Personally, I am quite difficult to impress ... and I rely on factual information ... period' ... some posts are interesting, however must be researched'
Good Luck to All ... I surely hope, that those involved sought other research references than any presented and skilled mb poster' ...
AZ
... Everyone Released as Instructed ~ Right ? ...
Well, I surely hope that all of the retail investors that have been involved here, within the WaMu issue over all of these years, were in a position to "release" their transitional shares, as instructed, and not only receive their allocated amount of WMIH (newco) shares at the March 2012' transition, BUT' as I believe we will see, for the near future' ... and more importantly, hold their allocated amount of their ( -esc ) escrow tracking markers within their individual accounts ...
... as I remember, even ol' rosie said "make sure you sign those releases" ...
AZ
... Here Are A Few of My Assumptions ...
... This is what I believe is a current possibility as we find ourselves moving forward ...
... The connections between the Liquidating Trust and WMIH are very much alive and well' ~ and, the Liquidating Trust does not have the legal mechanics in place to handle any liquidation nor, to address the servicing of illiquid assets, which are now in a position to be returned to the originating estate (again, the Liquidating Trust & the now current holders of the escrow tracking markers') ...
In My Opinion' this is where the recently released notification, of the extreme increase of stock availability for the newco' (3.5 billion shares, soon to be available) will soon come into play and or our own reality as the new company moves forward with KKR & Citi's assistance' ...
WMIH' will issue a stock for value transition between itself (WMIH) and the holders of the ( -esc ) escrow tacking markers being held by all who released' at transition ... Releasing participants, as the literal owners within the Plan designate ~ Liquidating Trust ~ of the original debtors estate (WMI)
Ones owned' ( -esc ) tracking markers being considered as a designated counter' for the transitional amount of WMIH shares received for value' ...
This preplanned action, again In My Opinion ... allows many things to happen ...
This WMIH stock for value transition, between the newco, and the holders of the tracking markers, would allow, the Bankruptcy Court to continue to work through its own remaining and existing issues regarding the employee claims, etc ... all of the time utilizing The Courts ability to be in a position, to be able to utilize The Plans designated Pay Out Matrix Attachment H' as adjusted by mediation and the now approved Plan7 ~ for any cash distributions as they come in (the waterfall as referenced')
... Piers securities, or the last creditor class did not receive, transitional escrow tracking markers, so they would remain impaired' within the Tranche Payout Matrix as the Company moves forward' ... so, not only would they (the piers holders) not participate in a "stock for value" transition between the newco and the Liquidating Trust' ... but this also would allow the company, The now moving forward WMIH' ... be in a position to separate itself from the Bankruptcy Court as the newco could now move forward' ... unimpaired by the past' ...
AZ
... Sure, Quite a Few Things Actually' ...
And, if you don't mind ~ maybe you' could post for all to see what I have been incorrect about ...
Quickly, off of the top of my head' ... here is a sample of a few of the issues I have posted about' and encouraged open discussion regarding' ...
I brought a discussion forward, regarding the existence of the Bankruptcy Courts Registry Accounts
I brought to the discussions, The Company's display within their own SEC Filings of Capital Loss' availability and Net Operating Loss availability' ... Both' as presented by the company'
I brought to the discussion table, the important distinctions between the "Day Calculations" presented on message boards, not being correct, within the utilization of a "day" calculation back to the Plan's "Implementation Date" ... when the filings clearly referred to the "Confirmation Date"
I have discussed the distinctions between our company, (WMIH) NOT' actually receiving a Company Designated PLR from the IRS (Private Letter Ruling)
The assignments regarding JPMorgan Bank, N.A. (JPMorgans Banking Sub)~ Not only Not' receiving anything' other than the servicing rights for the extensive WMI Loan File' but also Not' being in a legal position to actually obtain ownership' of said Loan File
I have discussed many times, regarding numerous issues as stated within the "The Examiners Report" ~ specifically the many references to the designated and filed "footnote 39" within, said report'
I posted recently regarding, the R-203 distinctions within the 12/31/2014 recently riled by JPMorgan (10-K)
I have posted many times, regarding the legal separations between the parents filed' WMI Bankruptcy and the Bankruptcy Court designated legal limitations and the distinctly separate WMB seizure by the FDIC September 2008'
I have presented, numerous "distinctions" presented within the now reviewed and signed "Purchase & Assumption Agreement" between the FDIC & JPMorgan as it's receiving bank
I have posted numerous references to the FDIC site itself' and its publically stated procedures, involving all seized entities ~ irrelevant of whether they, the FDIC, found a receiving bank or not (obviously in our case, they did)
I have submitted many references to the US Congress Passed ~ 1934 Act ~
I have presented, numerous wording references within many documents, as prepared and presented to the people'
I have presented numerous references to the "Goulding Document" as prepared and the Courts "Plan of Confirmation" Order being almost a direct copy and paste
I brought to the boards, a discussion regarding Filing # 8179 ~ "The Standing Motion" ~ filed on the "eve" of the Court Room Hearing for the tentative approval of Plan 6 by Susman & Godfrey' ~ (July 2011) ~ (obviously Plan 6 failed)
... Do you' want me to continue ? ... I have more'
AZ
... Well ? My Opinion, ? ...
Well, my opinion on numerous issues, has been formed after reading many documents ...
I guess it is possible that numerous legal filings and documents have been filed with false and misleading information, ... But I do not believe so ...
AZ
... Simply, WMB was WMI's Designated Servicer ...
WMB, as WMI's designated Servicer' or servicing agent is documented numerous times, within many SEC filings, and contractual agreements ...
The FDIC was only in a position to seize the banking Sub, WMB ... which IS NOT listed as "owner" of these discussed Mortgage Trusts, ... so subsequently, JPM, could only receive, servicing rights, via the transition of the FDIC's designation of "receiver" given to JPM upon the FDIC's seizure of WMB in Sept, 2008 ... or put another way, The FDIC, was only in a position to offer JPM, the servicing rights ...
Amendments to numerous SEC filings transition the stipulation of "ownership" to be referred to as "Master Servicer" ... the wording is important ...
Our, originating debtors estate, (The Liquidating Trust) ... and WMIH are, and continue to be connected ...
Thank You to LG, Tanj, and Board, for your continued DD
AZ
... Tanj, JPM Also Agrees with Those Listed ...
The R-203 filed within JPMorgans recently filed 10-K releasing information up to 12/31/2014 ... This filed 10-K ,... JPMorgans recent filing gives us all an indication of the massive numbers involved ...
And ... YES' ... I wanted to emphasize, ... Everything, ... being returned to the original debtors estate, MUST' ... go through the Liquidating Trust ...
... Also, as we have all been reviewing over the weekend' ... WMIH should begin to move since the filing release last Friday' ...
GLTA ...
AZ
... Yes, I'm SURE' Everyone Holds an Opinion' ...
However, what "everyone" doesn't hold, are their allocated amount of transitional WMIH shares OR the escrow tracking markers which would have been associated to those same security's ... had one not followed the suggestion of equity's representation ... and sold out prior to transition or not released ...
For conversation, let's use a generic example ...
Say someone had 15,000 P security's during the first quarter of 2012 and decided to liquidate their holdings prior to the Mar 2012 transition ? ...
Well, that hypothetical shareholder would NOT have received any escrow tracking markers, for an opportunity to participate within a future Tranche 6 distribution ... But, for a more immediate result, That same hypothetical person would NOT have received some ... ( rough numbers ) ... 15,000 X 20 ish newco shares as a transitional result or equalling an existing value of some ... 300,000 shares of newco X's say $2.00 per share, or a today's value of some $600,000.00 ...
Just some rough numbers and thoughts' ... Opinions are one thing, but money pays the bills' ...
AZ
... Critical Information Was Missed ...
While many remained focused on the WMI Bankruptcy, and it's proceedings, ... There was another very important process, The FDIC's procedural process regarding it's seizure of WMB, also in consideration ... I'm sure, those that were familiar with the law and the complete process, understood these two separate and distinctly exclusive operations ...
Again, the Purchase and Asumption Agreement that remained in tact between the FDIC and it's receiving bank, ( JPM ) ... kept everything' off limits until the contracts termination, last September 25, 2014 ...
... This is why Blackstone has never been far away, and why KKR and Citi are here now ... I believe the process is about to begin reasonably soon
R's obligation to the original debtors estate ... and everyone on stand by, to help the liquidating trust handle these returns ...
AZ
... Thank You, All for the Kind Words ...
Acknowledging the research means quite a lot from this seasoned group of retail holders, here on this forum, and is appreciated from each and every one of you ... And yes, at this point in time, as KKR & Citi have now committed as of Jan 2015, ... Just a few thoughts as we move forward ... and yes, we' will move forward, in a very positive fashion, ... quite soon, ~
... As many folks know, I have owned WaMu since Jan 2006 ... Obviously, as an investor, I paid attention to their standings and marketing strategies ... When we moved into early 2008, ... I was sayin "what the heck is up" ... like all of us, I watched what happened, scratchin' my head the whole way ...
WaMu appears to be solvent, and making its way through the crisis' ... Bonderman & TPG Group are committing cash infusions, early on 2008, ... while Goldman is hired by WaMu to search for potential buyers ? ... Yowzzaa ... WaMu NEVER' counters any of the bids presented, and Blackstone Capital even makes a second and increased offer to buy' ... nothing comes back from WaMu, countering, or stating what they actually wanted for an acquisition price ... Nothing' ...
( 8-ball ... hmmm ... was WaMu earmarked to be seized ? the folks involved here, were ALL at the very top of the financial food chain' )
So, then something, I found interesting happens ... On Nov 19th' 2008, ( just a few short weeks after the seizure ) ... a filing is presented to the bankruptcy court and quickly signed by the Judge ... ( I posted about this including the link, on the other board ) ... this filing presented, reorganized and bankruptcy exiting, new company ownership percentage limitations moving forward from this particular date, Nov 19, 2008 ... any ownership percentages up to that point ? were okay, beyond the filings date ? ... the designated limitation percentages were in place moving forward ...
Now, let this "ol' idiot biker" ... ask a stupid question ? ... who, would give a care about ownership percentage limitations for an exiting participation, in a reorganized WaMu upon its bankruptcy exit, just three weeks after the original seizure ? ... ( where is my turnip truck ? ... I need to throw myself off the back of it ) ...
Well, the list would be quite long ... (Bonderman & TPG private equity, included ?)
So, turning the page, a bit ... I believe Mike W and the S&G Group, to have understood the task at hand, to be, to ... legally, ... have an ending result, where equity and or innocent and unsuspecting shareholders, ... would also be included in the ending result ... Now, as we have all seen, ... the task was accomplished ... Thank You Mike, Equity Folks, and S&G ...
Again, I used to say I wanted to see the BIG picture, however, once my research lead me back to early 2008 and prior to the seizure, everything began to make sense ... not' right or wrong ... but make sense ...
Remember everyone, .... WE retailers that released our class 19's and class 22's and hold markers are the lower percentage of all who hold escrow markers ... WE have a lot of company within that pool of future recipients of the returning assets to the debtors estate ... ( R ) ...
Once a separation of the FDIC's guidelines invoked upon its seizure of WMB is separated from the WMI Bankruptcy, coupled with Delaware BK Law, ... the event and time line begin to become clear ...
Again, I firmly believe, that all that purchased their ticket to be on this money train, via their signed releases and the ultimate issue of individualized tracking escrow markers, will be financially rewarded, at an equal 75% ~ 25% ratio along with all that saw the money train placed on the tracks, in early 2008 ...
Good luck to us all ... This newco' is going to fly ...
AZ
... I Don't Mean to Upset Anyone ...
... Respectfully, and to everyone involved; I'm not trying to upset anyone, I am just completely sure within my own studies and research regarding both sides of this WaMu coin ... The, escrow marker recipients ( recipients of the original debtors estate ) and the current and existing holders of the WMIH shares, as we move forward ... especially now as we have our new partners'
... I have researched 1000's of pages of documents, as I went back to early 2008 beginning with WaMu's hiring of GS to seek out potential purchasers, (the stinky stew thread over on the other board) ... through Bonderman, thru the seizure of WMB and then WMI's Bankruptcy filing ~
The separation of the seizure, and the FDIC's responsibility to its receiving bank, (JPM) is a very important and key issue ... this issue has to be viewed separately from the WMI Bankruptcy ... ( WMI's Bankruptcy HAD TO "be confirmed" prior to the termination of the Purchase and Assumption Agreement between the FDIC & JPM, or all hell would have broken loose') (wasn't going to happen')
Again, for those that trusted our people that mediated our result ? and released their class 19 & 22 securities to obtain escrow tracking markers ? ... WE' should all be in great shape' ... The same with the new company as we now will begin to move forward ...
I only have two remaining questions regarding the markers and returns to the original debtors estate' ... 1st is when ? and 2nd is how much ... I am pretty easy goin' ~ so the way I see things ? ... the when ? shouldn't be too much longer all things considered ... and the how much ? ... should be quite a bit' ... substancially more than most that understand the entire process expect ... those returning Trusts from "R" are worth a lot' of money... Blackstone, KKR & Citi know it along with ol' AZ ...
Good luck to everyone ... and I'm secure within my research ... I don't have very many more questions ... just watchin' and waitin' for a little bit' longer ~ (lookin for an 8k from the trust notifying everyone that some "stuff" has been received' back from the FDIC' )...
My mind can not be changed ~ I've done the work' and I'm satisfied with both potentials for return' ... so again, I don't mean to upset anyone, I just have a lot invested, both time within the research and a whole bunch of money, both from pre & post transition'
Everyone Have a Great Day'
AZ
... Well, I know you asked Green, ...
However, ... Yes ... The ( -esc ) escrow markers will be the recipients of distributions ... The process has always been planned to ultimately be connected ... Retailers that released on merely the "trust" of our people will fair quite well ... those that chose a different path, ... will not be involved, in the entire program ... only to the level of an individual's participation ... either in newco, or the markers, or in most cases, ... BOTH' ... two sources of returns ...
Again, at the time, many could not vision beyond the WMI Bankruptcy, ... However, the FDIC's seizure of WMB, kept all issues off limits, while the Purchase and Assumption Agreement was still intact between the FDIC and its receiving bank, JPMorgan Bank, N.A ...
Mildly, and simply put ... Apples and Oranges ... between the two processes'
The Trusts will be returned to the original debtors estate, by the FDIC ... Our own liquidating trust ...
The "trust" as it exists, does not have the mechanics in place to handle these operations, which is why, Blacksone has never been far away' and the reason for our new friends, KKR & Citi ...
Both will flourish as the process is realized ... The new company ? WMIH ... and the holders of the trust markers ...
AZ
... When I Post Here ...
I do my best to only include links or relevant information for the benefit of all ... Regarding this current survey thing ? ... I do not find that individual request interesting, nor am I familiar with the person making the request or why ... I don't merely guess and take my investments seriously ...
I would always hope, each individual involved, has benefited by the extensive research that has been done by many, and everyone has been given the opportunity to achieve their own conclusions ...
Those that have followed, understand and already know where I believe we are headed, both new company and the recipients of the ( -esc ) escrow trust markers ...
I was surprised to recently read that BK, did not receive any exiting markers ... I believe that was a shame for anyone that has been involved here ... I hope he has been in a position to hit the newco shares hard ... Everyone that has been involved for so long, should be able to financially benefit, IMO ...
To merely consider the WMI Bankruptcy exiting, approved Plan 7 ? Would have been a financial error for any individual ... I surely hope the amount of people choosing to not release is a small number ... MW worked very hard to achieve the positive result for all of equity
So, to all involved ? ... surveys are meaningless, ... study the documents and sequence of events as they have occurred and the future becomes very clear, as seen thru AAOC's eyes ...
Good Luck To Us All,
AZ
... Well Done' ...
I put that little tidbit in there on purpose to see who could stray from the continuation of thoughts presented ...
You are correct, Dodd Frank was passed due to the 2007 - 2008 financial crisis' ...
Sometimes I like to see if the conversation can be stimulated beyond any noticeable talking points ...
One recently begins with a "my opinion" and ends with "mostly fact" ... ok den'
and then others throw around words like "legal" yet refuse to acknowledge the actual filings associated with the actual issues at hand' ...
just sayin'
AZ
... AND ~ In My Opinion, Why KKR is Here ~ ...
Now, Just My Opinion, However, I may have bought into the whole ... KKR is here merely for the WMIH zero value shell with some NOL's future' ... (35% of 5.97b ~ yada yada yada')
Nope, had the rights offering been comparatively less than some 25% of KKR's Liquid Cash on Hand, I may have bought into the NOL' slow growth theory etc etc ... But 400m ? in convertible B series preferreds ? ... HHHMMM'
And then Citi ? jumpin in ? those dudes can not take any chances ... just sayin' ...
However, again, and In My Opinion, KKR & Citi (and I also think Blackstone) are sittin' in the hallway waiting for the FDIC to return assets seized that have NOT been in a position to be liquidated as a return to the original debtors estate' ...
And the fella's are just waitin' in the hallway to help us out ...
just sayin'
AZ
... Well, Probably More Than That' 100B ...
I guess we just have to keep going over the same things, over and over, however, I do get told that there are many people that read the posted information ... so ~
... Yes, 100B worth of Loans ? and probably more than that, ... The extensive WMI Loan File was not allowed to be reviewed by the Examiner' ... (footnote 39' of the examiners report, has been posted here numerous times) due the fact that the WMI Loan File which was to be "serviced" by Chase was still within the confines of the initiated, Purchase & Assumption Agreement between the FDIC & JPMorgan ... and was NOT a party to, or able to be a consideration of' the WMI' Bankruptcy Proceeding while that contract was activated' upon seizure ...
(WMI's BK settlement was achieved, simply, utilizing WMI's own cash on hand, plus some tax refunds) (upon the FDIC's seizure, the assets within the Assets plus the extensive loan file were not able to be a WMI financial consideration, due to Dodd Frank which was the law of the land in Sept 2008)
... All' which was seized' by the FDIC' ~ back in Sept 2008, was legally "hands off" while the PA&A contract remained an active and liquid contract' ...
... Anyone can complain away to the SEC, and request as many audits as one would want ~ However ~ Upon the FDIC's seizure of WMB and their initialized contract (PA&A) with JPMorgan ? ... the Loan File along with the ( a's ) within the ( A's) was off limits until the contract finally terminated ~ 9/25/2014 ...
The 1934 Act explains the procedures utilized within an action of this sort, in very great detail
... JPMorgan received the servicing rights to the extensive WMI Loan File ... JPMorgan paid an "initial" payment to the FDIC' ... The "assets within the Assets" did NOT transfer to JPMorgan ...
reference; the GSA' ~ The Disclosure Statement' ~ The Purchase & Assumption Agreement' ~ the Examiners Report' ~ The Plan of Confirmation' ~ The Goulding Document (in support of) ... etc ...
One merely has to review the literal standing of WMB (only) at the time of seizure and be in a position to separate the issues to understand the legal process that was utilized and adhered to'
... Follow the time line and the documents ...
AZ
... Well ~ a Few "AZ" Thoughts ~ ...
Lets see'
WMIH, the Newco ? ... A Rock Solid Investment' ... In my Opinion, and an absolute steal at these $2.00 PPS' purchase ranges ... As everyone knows, I've been around for a very long time and was blessed to have the opportunity to load up the ol' turnip truck in the half dollar range back in 2012 ... I had released everything at transition and simply trusted S&G & Mike ... I have never sold any at all, throughout the whole deal, both Pre Bankruptcy, and then Pre & Post Plan 7's Confirmation, but I also have not added anything since Nov 2013 ($1.04 my last add) ... so my entire cost involved going back to Jan 2006, for my entire investment is currently green' plus' ... so its kinda hard to find me in an upset mood at any point in time ...
But lets get serious ~ Currently, If I am an idiot for being on this stock ?, then there are bigger idiots than me over at the Board Rooms of ~ KKR & Citi for throwing 400m and 200m respectfully at this deal that just finalized on the 5th ... So Yep' ... I say WMIH pops soon & pops quite soon' ... or the shareholders at Citi & KKR need to have their own' ... "special shareholders meeting"
( -esc ) escrow tracking markers ? ... Just as solid as I have ever been ... I say "R" should begin to finalize as per their own dictated procedures with our own debtors estate ... soon ... now that the PA&A agreement has terminated ...
I do not see any negatives at this point on either front'
AZ
... What's Up ? Who's Lookin' for me ? ...
... While escrows are common within BK Filings ...
... As equity shares or escrow tracking markers, are common within bankruptcy filings and are generally cancelled ... What is also quite common in bankruptcy filings are settlements between the estate and the creditor classes ...
However, ... What isn't common within bankruptcy filings is the filing (Filing # 0001) Our own, WMI initial Bankruptcy filing, ... showing the debtors estates assets exceeding its liabilities by some extreme amounts of valuation' ... as filed and never amended' or corrected'
as per the initial filing, 34b assets - 8b liabilities ~ and never amended' ...
AZ
... Boris ~ I Agree ...
... When looking back over the entire process, as many of us have dissected the documents, ... I can understand and make sense out of us' (retail equity class 19 & 22 holders) being asked to sign a release ~ which released JPMorgan ...
I am not saying right or wrong, I am saying that our being asked to release JPM has made sense to me ... Simply' ... an easy defense would be ... "Hey Everyone' we (JPM) did not seize WaMu's Bank' (WMB) ... we were merely asked to buy it' (WMB) by the OTS / FDIC and that's what we (JPM) did'" ... "a good deal was offered ? and we took it'"
So, Okay I get that JPM part ... BUT, ... retail also having to release the FDIC has always left me scratchin' my head ... we were never in a position to legally charge them (FIRREA) ... (the 34' Act protects the FDIC ) ...
Nope, ... there is and has been a whole lot more going on here' ... If the FDIC was totally justified, within their numerous actions, ... they could easily just tell everyone to "go pound sand" ... and no release would have been considered' or needed ...
I have some thoughts which sort of bring this all full circle, for both the new company and also the escrow tracking markers at the same time, ... as both could easily benefit from returns from "R" ... however, at this late date, I have a feeling that all will be known soon enough' anyway' ...
... In my opinion, We' (the Debtors Estate ~ WMIH) have something special and of great value that KKR wants ? and wants to be a part of and in on ... and I do not believe this Dec 2014 large rights offering, has to do with, or is regarding a shell company with the possibility of some net operating tax allowances ...
AZ
... So, "Big Money" is not buying ? ...
So, let's see, you do not believe that the 12/19/2014 initial announcement of a rights offering, by KKR would not' be considered to be "big money" ? ...
And, if someone, took the opposite view, and were to consider KKR's two combined investments to actually be "big money" ... comparitively ... do you and others continue within the theory that KKR spent some 400 million plus dollars, to participate merely within our shell company and our NOL possible valuations?
so, since you don't believe "big money" is here due to any "R" possible returns to the WMI debtors estate, ... I would be interested to hear just why KKR chose to invest some 25% of its liquid cash on hand into WMIH ...
If you are correct, in that all we have are some NOL's to offer, than I would think that KKR needs a special shareholders meeting to be called, NOT WMIH ...
I believe there is much going on that we' as retail shareholders are not aware of and that the future vision is tainted by some ...
I would think that underestimating the financial planning capabilities of the people in charge, would be an error, both past and now present tense'
just sayin
AZ
... Soon ? The Arguements will be Meaningless ...
... Does anyone here believe that the FDIC did NOT have the power to shut this down and send everyone packing ? ... including JPM ? ... Study "FIRREA" ... if there are any specific questions ...
No, ... The FDIC wanted everyone to sign their release as directed to do so, due the fact that ... if an individual signed their release as directed, that individual holder, would be in a position to participate within the Plan 7 settlement ... the mediated final and approved result' ... as disclosed'
Again, if the FDIC wanted to ... "jack" ... anyone, they could have just done so' ...
Regarding WMIH ? ... KKR obviously, sees something in us' .. of great value ... something worth 400 million dollars ... US, WMIH, .. just US ... If KKR just saw some future tax benefits, ... they (KKR) could have achieved that hedge a whole lot of different ways with a whole lot of different shells / companies ... for a whole lot less money ... or multiple participations ...
WMIH is something special ... Special enough for a company with 92 billion dollars under asset management to commit 25% of their liquid cash to, ... while we are still on the OTC ...
I doubt KKR cares who released or who didn't ... neither do I ... what I do know is that ... WMIH will soon be taking off, ... and equity holders of transitional escrow tracking markers will ultimately be treated properly ... as agreed upon within the now approved Plan 7 settlement, ... and "R" begins to finalize the WMI Debtors estate ...
The FDIC will finalize this WMI Debtors estate in proper form as mandated' ...
AZ
... LG, I agree, This Is All Planned and Connected ...
... There is too much going on right now for this, ... NOT ... to be' connected ... as we approach the filing of the LT's 4th qtr report at the end of the month, I believe the inclusion of ... footnote 10 ... will begin to make sense to us regarding T-4 ...
Also, ... WMIH has something that KKR wants badly' and was willing to commit 25% of their liquid cash on hand to get ...
I doubt this has anything to do with only a gain of a possible "tax benefit" ... we shall soon see' ...
AZ
... Had ~ "R" ~ Planned on Cheating This WMI Debtor ? ...
When the FDIC, ... (R) ... agreed and chose to ask for each of equity's participation within the Plan 7's settlement, by requesting your individual signed release ... The FDIC was telling every equity holder, that equity participants would be treated fairly by this Receiver' and according to the FDIC's procedural mandate' ...
If the FDIC- R had planned on merely screwing everyone, ... they would have never taken the time to request your ... "Signed Release" ... they ( R ) would have just screwed equity, and moved on ...
The Documents, reveal equity's future to be quite positive ~ those that listened to the directives and released as requested ... anyway' ...
just sayin'
AZ
... Hi Guys ~ What's Up ? ...
None of you are discouraged today are you ? ... actually, I have been looking into and reading about some things' that I have been curious about' ... regarding WMIH'
AZ
... hotmeat, this has always made sense to me ...
nice job within your easy to understand presentation'
... to be confused is understandable ... to remain confused is a choice ...
AZ
... This Opportunity Came Along Just Once ...
Historically, this was the first time a situation of this magnitude had ever happened ... and due the recent laws we all just saw being passed, it will not be able to happen in the same fashion ever again ...
Some retail equity holders followed, trusted and listened to the people that fought for and handled our existing situations ... Some thought at the time that they knew better, some thought they were smarter, ... they were not ... some just ... "Smarted" ... themselves out of participating in the greatest financial recovery ever made available to the common equity shareholders of a company of any where near this size ...
Some thought the 16's were the way to go, some thought converting their positions to cash and buying back in after transition was the way' ... many ( 30 % ) didn't release commons ... many thought cashing out of commons and increasing their 19's holdings was the answer ...
However, ... Many trusted and believed and released their holdings as instructed to do so, and not only received their allocated trust markers, but also their transitioned new company shares ...
No postings will change the future outcome ... many will reap their designated reward, some simply will not ... those that do not, will live with that reality, of having been given this one time opportunity and making a poor choice for what ever reason they had at the time ...
" it is what it is "
Good Luck to All
AZ
... LG, It Ain't Rocket Science ...
All any honest and innocent retailer needed were two basic things ... Trust in our representation and the patience to wait for the pre planned result' ... some people simply ~ "smarted" ~ themselves out of the possibility to change their financial future ... the recoveries awarded back to the debtors estate from the FDIC-R, will be unbelievable' ...
This was the literal one time event of this size, since the great depression, in the 1930's, that the 1934 Acts mandated protections were put to use' ...
Again, when everyone else was running for the doors ? ~ the hedge funds were smellin' a giant golden financial future result ~ all tied up in a nice legal bow and with the US Government and its mandated procedures all the time backing them up legally ' ...
Weil couldn't file that BK fast enough upon seizure which actually protected all of the assets seized by the FDIC the day before since THEY' DiD NoT have to be disclosed to the Bankruptcy Court up to and until the PA&A terminated ...
The creditor classes got paid with WMI's cash on hand' and the tax returns (the 7 billion) and the PA&A kept everything at bay until Sept 2014 ... some 3 and 1/2 years after the fact and into the future' ...
... This was pure and simple Absolute Genius ~ and Mike & the Susman group kept us involved within the future result'
AZ
... The Bankruptcy Needs to Wrap Things Up ...
The Federal Judge (JMW) and the Federal Bankruptcy Court need to wrap things up prior to "R" returning to our debtors estate' ... or' basically to all and every debtors estates ... it's what they do'
The FDIC procedures are distinct and actually explained quite well within their own publically provided website ... I didn't write it ~ I only read and studied it' ... because I am invested ? so I am extremely interested ...
Watch the Bankruptcy going forward ... its future actions will give you an insight as to when R' will begin to settle with the debtors estate ...
I believe it will be soon, due to 510(b) issues within tranche 5 of our pre determined pay out matrix'
AZ
... BK, Do You Know What Else You Can't Do Anything About ? ...
From BK
... LG & Bob, No' Coincidence Here' ...
As LG has said for years now, ... the timing of these issues is no coincidence ... In my opinion, something is coming and as Bob said, Soon & Big' ...
There is absolutely NO reason for anyone to believe, that the FDIC will treat this particular, WaMu's debtors estate any different than it has treated, any of the other seized entities estates that the FDIC has been involved in' ... none'
rosiiie's filing last night that there has been an agreement' surely looks like the bankruptcy side is wrapping up'
the unprecedented 6 year long PA&A agreement they utilized, kept everything at bay for quite a long while, however, that contract has now since terminated ...
... many things should begin to break loose for all of the WaMu longs now, regarding both the Trust Markers beginning to receive returning dividends' and the new company WMIH, within its moves forward ...
AZ