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... Also ~ ADDED; for Clarity ...
From Note 8;
... Yes' LG This is a Possibility ...
... Regarding WMIH & the LT ~ ...
Yes, it has been a long wait' ... However, here we are now at this point in time ... and that is all that matters'
As we all move forward, as always, I am watching many things, ... however, ... WMIH 's requested increase to 3.5 billion shares, ... In My Opinion, will soon play an important roll ... I believe this requested available share increase for WMIH, has long ago been decided, ... however, will not be finalized until 4/28/2015, at the formalization of the upcoming Shareholders Meeting ...
For anyone interested, ... search and read information regarding the ("DTC") ... one will soon conclude, a corporation of this size would not be needed for the final distribution of some 2.9 million shares of a company currently trading in the $2.00 range ...
AZ
... WMIH, & The LT ~ Are Connected ...
I know some people continue to believe there is no connection between the new company, WMIH, ... created via the now Approved Plan of Reorganiztion and the Liquidating Trust ... which, was also an obvious creation of the now approved Plan ...
That is simply a misconception, ... fueled by misunderstanding ...
Two, immediate connections have always been since the very beginning, the fact that Mike W is in charge of both' ... The LT & WMIH
Another connection would be the recently mentioned, within the Press Release, or the ... The Depository Trust Company ... the ("DTC") ...
Our new companies plans to utilize the ("DTC") 's mechanism, was initially described in the Plan of Reorganization ... the recent Press Release was merely of a reminder of the Plans distribution mechanics, ... already put in place ... the distribution mechanics available betweent WMIH and the Liquidating Trust ... for the distribution of shares of the new company, WMIH
Remember, ... The Liquidating Trust represents the "Original Debtors Estate, Owners" ... i.e., the holders of the escrow tracking markers, received for your "Release" ...
Again, ... The Plan of Reorganization, set this distribution procedure in place, ... The press release was reminder number one, and the recently filed 10-Q ... was reminder number two' ...
AZ
... Maybe, This will Help ...
I have been asked privately a few times regarding the pre & post issue as it refers to our present condition ... Let me see if this helps ...
(-esc) escrow tracking markers, currently showing in ones brokerage account as a direct and a defined result of an individuals choice to release their shares of p's, k's and uq's ... or not, prior to the March 2012 Transition ... Again, they are a defined direct result of the final Plan of Confirmation ...
The holders of those markers are the Plan of Reorganizations, designated owners of the original debtors estate ...
The receipt of those markers, is a direct result of the now approved Plan of Reorganization, ... Approved Feb 23rd 2012 ...
That is basically it' ... if you currently hold markers? ... you will participate in the future plans for and the ultimate finalization of this debtors estate ... just check your own accounts to gather the answer' ... of whether or not you will participate in all future events
There is NO pre seizure, post seizure to it any longer ... The approved Plan of Reorganization finalized everything as a forward moving issue ...
Now also, the Liquidating Trust' ... is also an operation born of the agreed upon Plan of Reorganization ...
WMIH shares ... Though, are different ... There is a forward moving distinction, between WMIH shares received as your ... release signed transitional event, and any WMIH shares purchased since March 2012, ... After the Plans Implementation ... March 19th, 2012 ...
Shares received via your release, may still be utilized as a counting mechanism, correlated with the mechanics involved with the ("DTC") functions moving forward ...
Shares purchased in WMIH, separately, and after March 2012, are a participation in an OTC tradable security ...
I hope that helps
AZ
... nranger, I analyze it' ...
past, present and posible future tense ... I agree with you, in that ... the (-esc) escrow tracking markers are important, ... very important ... They are the designated and original Plan 7 determinative' original estate counters' ... which can be utilized as a counting mechanism for ~ value ~ returns to the actual "owners" of the original debtors estate ... The equity class holders (class 19 & class 22, designated to split 75% / 25%) ...
Currently, the Liquidating Trust is functioning as the distributing agent to creditor class recipients via LTI's ... (Liquidating Trust Interests) ... and following the pre planned and approved PayOut Matrix ... (Attachment H') ...
Currently, ... Your escrow markers MAY be issued as, ~ (LTI's) ~ Liquidating Trust Interests, as the Liquidating Trust continues and eventually reaches the designated Tranche Levels ...
However, ... Your escrow tracking markers, can also be dealt with separately, and directly, by WMIH ... utilizing the ("DTC") ... as everyone was recently reminded of, within the Press Release
No where, within the Plan or this recent Press Release, does it dictate that the mechanics available for the distribution of WMIH shares, via the ("DTC") ~ is limited to the NOW showing, 2.9 million shares remaining
So, ... We have now been told this ... once' ... within the Plan of Reorganization, ... and recently reminded of this procedural possibility, twice, ... both, within the recent Press Release and the now filed 10-Q ...
Now is the time for all, to ask yourself a question ... do you believe all of the information that has been presented to be properly motivated or not' ...
... I believe the push for shares owned by retail, to be enhanced severely, ... for all that are able ? ... sit tight through to and beyond the upcoming share holders meeting, ... April, 28th
In my opinion, ... the secrets will begin to be revealed, between the shareholders meeting and the July 5th final date ...
Honest people have been damaged enough, ... beware of the final push into the negative ... IMO? ... so far nothing bad has occurred, ... only the wait'
AZ
... LG' ~ Thank You ~ as Always ...
Just so everyone understands' ... LG has to push me to post information ... if anyone is appreciative of the DD' that I have tried to present here, Please, Thank LG' for that ... I guess a participant could either ~ Blame Him ? or ... ~ Thank Him' ... my poor attempt at humor, ...
But seriously, the Absolute Priority Rule is quite strict and is not manipulated easily ... No One' would have been in any position to negotiate its removal ... The Federal Court, and Federal Judge, (including the Federal Judge overseeing the mediation) would have NOT wavered from these Federal Rule 1129(b) guidelines ... the exception to the rule ... can only be contemplated when there appears to be large amounts of funding (assets and / cash) which will filter back to a debtors estate'
Only, ... to the level that the 1129(b) exception was in a position to be utilized ...
In my opinion, we had an indication of this coming, when the Judge ... "posited" ... I have always believed, she was telling rosie how to get it all done, or else (as S&G requested ... "equitable subordination" ? ... The Judge said, Nope' ... ya'll are playing with the possibility of "equitable disallowance") ... anyway, that is another topic' ...
And to LG's question as follows ? Let me see ... Nope, I don't think I have ever heard you say hat before ... (just sayin')
AZ
... Claw, That is Actually Not' Correct ...
I know that particular reasoning, has been bandied about by a few, however ... That is actually Not' the true and factual information regarding this issue' ... or, the actual reason why Absolute Priority was able to, not only be disregarded, but also why Absolute Priority was able to be negotiated to the simultaneous percentage distributions we all have witnessed' and read about with the Confirmed Plan' ~ the 75% / 25% equal distributions to the class 19's and the class 22's
... A Comprehensive Fair And Reasonable Recovery ...
~ That is exactly' what "equity's representation" disclosed to us,
... that is exactly what they had achieved' within the Plan Approved and Mediated Result ... This statement referenced and disclosed, what equity had achieved for all, for all that held class 19 & class 22 equity shares, for all who released their shares and ultimately received transitional WMIH shares and also (-esc) escrow tracking markers, placed within their individual brokerage accounts ~
Those ... TWO ... very distinct words added within equity's disclosure, ... "comprehensive & recovery" to the courts earlier reference to the GSA as being "fair & reasonable" were powerful additions to the statement' ...
... Everything is now coming together nicely ... all issues' ...
GLTA
AZ
... LG' ~ A Couple of Thoughts ...
... Tanj, ... No Worries' ...
I know you are probably joking, but don't take to feeling ill' or feeling "sick" in any way' ... I am out here in the ol' Arizona Desert' just as happy as I can be' ... as I watched no change in the market condition today ... Not only have I never believed ("we believe"), that the NOL's were our singular value, but I also now believe, the greater market place also agrees ... there is IMO, a lot more to this than has ever met the eye'
The market' as we closed today continued to affirm that this little shell of a corporation has significantly more going for it' than the possible utilization of some NOL' ~ 35% of 5.97b some 17 years future' ...
Honestly, had that been the case, and today ?, had we popped to a $7.00 or $8.00 trading ratio ? ... giving the impression that the NOL's were our only considerable value ? ... I would have been sorely disappointed ...
I'll close with another hearty ... "Thank You" ... to you and all ... and to anyone that chose to not release, or anyone that did not receive their proper allocation of escrow tracking markers at transition ? I would think those individuals' would feel quite ill this evening, and have a need to secure a cylinder of oxygen' for additional breathing aid ...
"There will be no more WaMu's" ~ T Geitner
~ (a stock for value exchange) ~ ... ~ the ~ (Our Liquidation Trust' is WMIH's Target) (IMO' of course)
AZ
... Thank You ~ Tanj, LG, Board and All' ...
Thanks to everyone involved for all of their hard work ... as todays market closes, it becomes apparent, the market agrees with many of us, in that' the NOL's were not the only value as the professed testing period ended' ... Honestly, IMO' this deal is going to be massive and was planned out long ago by very, very smart people' ...
anyway;
... Again, ... The simplified sequence as I see things moving forward'
~ WMI (the parent) = the original debtors estate = the liquidating trust = WMIH's target' ~ ...
(a stock for value exchange)
AZ
... So, What is WMIH's Target ? ... (IMO)
Well, I guess everyone, and anyone that has been around for awhile' has aquired an opinion at this point in time ... I'll add to the discussion, ...
My opinion is WMIH's target is ~ "the original debtors estate" ~
IMO' ... anyone that wants to see' the target, merely needs to open up their own brokerage account and take a look at your owned ( -esc ) escrow tracking markers ...
Yep, I believe WMIH's target will be the Liquidating Trust' which represents the "original debtors estate" and is owned by the holders of the escrow tracking markers ...
IMO' ... again, ... the "tell" is the move to Delaware and the increase to a 3.5billion share count
... "a stock for value" ... transition'
AZ
... es1 ... Thank You for Your Question' ...
So, first and foremost, Thank You, and to everyone' for participating in an open discussion regarding ... possibilities ... as we move forward'
When I consider your question regarding a possible dilution back to the .40 (40 cent) PPS' area, my first thoughts would be, ... a direct dilution of that magnitude would be of great concern to our new friends' ... KKR & Citi' ... (we know their strike price already ~ $1.75 - $2.25)
And beyond that consideration, as merely an individual investor, ... if my model becomes feasible, ... as a holder of a tremendous amount of ( -esc ) (escrow tracking markers due to my releases') ... in light of a potential future' "stock for value" ~ transition between WMIH and the Liquidating Trust, my own WMIH holdings would increase substantially, diminishing, my own "cost per share average" ... quite a lot' ...
Again, Thank You for your question, ... I believe an investors consideration of the possibilities of the future ... are dictated within the true meaning of what is considered ... Due Diligence' ...
Disregarding one's ideas without substance' ... is nothing more than "noise"
My Opinions'
AZ
... Bo' ... Yes, That Would Be Cool' ...
I figure our' (retail shareholders) horizon looks to be bright at many levels
AZ
... Let's Throw This Around The Table ...
I saw a few responses that I found interesting ...
1st; to answer pm's question ... Yes' this would only be a consideration, regarding "illiquid" assets, Trusts, as returns to the Liquidating Trust' from the FDIC' and would involve a potential ~ "stock for transfer" event from our own WMIH' ...
2nd; to JB's response ... I'm not sure regarding ratio's ... However, I would like for anyone considering this following (8 ball) to chime in on' ...
3rd; to W3Reasearch'; ... Yes' I believe the boyzzz' had this all planned from the onset' ... again, there were not a lot of changes between Plan 6 and the approved Plan 7 other than equitys inclusion' ...
-----------------------------
So Okay' ... I'll take a shot at it' ~ to open up the discussion' ...
OK' first let me say that I believe the amounts of dollar values related to the illiquid Trust returns, coming from the FDIC to our own Liquidating Trust to be massive' ... and I do not envision how WMIH has enough of anything' to handle us in one quick swoop .... SO' ... In my opinion, this has to be a multi phased event' moving forward (IMO) ...
let's say, WMIH wanted to initialize a total of an additional 500 million shares to achieve a "stock for value" event from the LT'... ~ 200m shares out now, when the B's convert there is what ? 600m more shares, for a total of 1.3 billion out' at the final ... (200m + the 600m for the B's + an additional 500m shares needed, for the stock for value consideration) ... the first round, if you will ... (I believe there will be multiple tiered rounds as the stock price begins to increase ...)
See how this would work;
The First Round' ... So, ... 1.3 billion total shares out at the current price of $2.25 per' ... this would make the company's market cap be $2.925 billion dollars out of the gate' or ending within the first round of a "stock for value" event' equally 2.92 billion dollars worth of Trust illiquid asset value to be considered' ...
The company has now moved off of the OTC and can experience a conservative P/E ratio of a multiple of 4 ... making the stock move to a conservative price of $9.00 ($2.25 X 4) and a market cap of ($2.92 billion X 4 or a market cap of $11.7 billion) ...
Second Round' ... WMIH is now, settled in and ready for more' ... (The LT is still holding a whole bunch of illiquid assets) ...
The company now approves an additional 500m share release and everyone approves an additional "stock for value" of 500 million more shares only now at the second round values', worth 500m X $9.00 per share or a value to WMIH from the LT of $4.5 billion dollars more (Trust Values are being diminished while the company's value is increasing) ...
So now the company has, at a multiple of 4 ... a value of 4.5b + 11.7b = 16.2 billion + 4.5 X 4 for the additional, or a total market cap of 16.2b plus the new 18b = 34.2 billion dollars'
WMIH is now after two rounds, using a conservative multiple of 4 throughout' ... a 32.2 billion dollar company with 1.8 billion shares outstanding ... ($32.2 b / 1.8 shares = WMIH share value at $17.88 per share' )
So, ... of course this is just my own speculation, however, I hope as I have presented, this ends up being a very viable move forward for all involved ... (especially the escrow tracking marker holders, since at every round, not only do they receive additional stock for value WMIH shares, but the WMIH share price and market cap increase also' ... a win win win for everyone' ...
As everyone can see, as this hypothetical model progresses, after a few more rounds (maybe a round three, four or five) this stock is rockin' and the escrow tracking marker holders, which released have actually received a "comprehensive fair and reasonable recovery" as stated' ... an increased amount of WMIH shares, which could be sold at will, plus an increased WMIH share value'
Thanks for listening ...
AZ
... Nurse' ... No, let me Explain' ...
An "individuals" amount of transitional escrow tracking markers ~ is merely a tool to be utilized within a calculation of what a releasing party would receive ~ as a return to the LT', ... I am sure we are all very different within our holdings ... some of us hold K's, Some P's some uq's and some of us held a transitioning position in all equity transitional markers ...
The ~ amount ~ or "stock for value" shares one would receive fro WMIH would be measured by ones amount of escrow tracking markers only ...
Escrow Tracking Markers will stay within ones accounts until the entire receivership has been finalized ... (IMO' quite a long time out yet')
Does That help ?
AZ
... (8 Ball) My Speculation Moving Forward ...
Smart money or an increased volume buying, at these prices, speculating on a substantial stock price pop or increase, is not being experienced, due to the possibilities, that the WMIH share price, as a stand alone consideration, will not vary to far from where we are currently priced ... this current trading range / and the rights offering pricing structure we have been witnessing' or this $2.00 per share ratio' ...
In my opinion, I believe illiquid assets' (as researched, in the form of returning WMI owned Trusts Assets) will soon be returned to the original debtors estate by the FDIC' ~ subsequently, WMIH' will offer a "stock for value" transitional event utilizing its soon to be approved increase of 3.5 billion share allowance' and obtain ownership of these retuning assets. dealing directly with the owners of the original debtors estate, ~ the holders of the tracking markers' ...
A possible WMIH' issued "stock for value" allowance to the original owners of the WMI estate via the current owners of the ( -esc ) tracking markers or the Liquidating Estate' ...
In my opinion, ... "cash" ... returns from "R" which I also believe are available, ... will be held up, for awhile longer, as the Bankruptcy Court works its way through a few remaining issues and legally adheres to the approved Plan 7's designated PayOut Matrix ~ Attachment H' ...
Again, In My Opinion, This allows the company to move forward, and as a "stock for value" offering' ... the Company, WMIH, is able to buy-pass Attachment H' and be in a position to achieve value for the "illiquid returning assets"
This action would benefit ... existing owners of the LT (marker holders that released') and also benefit the new company moving forward ...
A transaction such as this would allow a "comprehensive fair and reasonable recovery" (as stated) to be experienced initially, by those equity participants which received escrow tracking markers via their submitted release, ... and would NOT allow a financial flow over to speculators which purchased WMIH stock since the March 2012 transitional event as we experienced our reorganization'
AZ
... Well, Again and Respectfully ...
... As you seem to have a need to continue' ... The argument on an internet message board regarding the validity of what you type within a post, is apparently, much more important to you than the factual sequence of events regarding this case and the proper dissection of the filings and legal documents as they have been applied to this case' ...
... In my opinion, you fail terribly on many of the subjects discussed ... the simplest being, your obvious inability to consider the separations between the WMI Bankruptcy Limitations' and the FDIC's Seizure of WMB, separated at their inception by an FDIC issued Purchase and Assumption Agreement' ... How do I even begin to take you seriously, when you fail at the onset' with such a determining document' ? ...
And, Yes to answer you' I do, sort of seems like childish banter regarding a misconception that you actually brought up' to begin with, ... which, of course, is not true and due to that particular fact, I won't participate in discussing with you' ...
... tzebedee' ~ I hope this is allowed here' ...
However, I am not signed in on this discussion board often, but I did want to take a moment. and let you know that I have learned a lot from your postings regarding the charts etc ... chart reading is not my skillset' ... however, please know, that when you post ... I do my very best to follow ...
Thank You
AZ
... Sorry, No' You Did Not Help' ...
You' may believe you helped' ... however, believe me, S&G needed no help' as you put it' ... and as you appear to have placed yourself on that pillar' ... again, my intentions are not to individualize, or upset anyone' ... however ... only ONE' individual representer actually aided within the entire endeavor, ... and that was Nate' ...
... Actually, In my own opinion, I believe your misinterpretations and inexperience within the complexity of the events ... have had the potential to cause others financial damage' ... I surely would hope that is not the case' ... however, as you remember, I do go back a ways' as a participant' ...
... Well, Your' Presented Interpretations Would Dictate Otherwise ...
believe me, your own postings, over the years have been complete evidence of your legal inexperience and misunderstanding of these filings and legal documents'
Your own postings of your understanding' of what you believe has been legally presented, has certainly been a presentation of their certain complex nature to your own understanding ... That' has become obvious to many who monitor this particular discussion board ...
... I am not interested in publically disparaging you or anyone' at all' ... however, your own presentations are the best proof moving forward of your inability to understand the complexity of this case' and the intricate workings of the Plan moving forward' ...
AZ
... Well, Yes, I'm Sure You May Be Reading' ...
... However, what you are reading and the application of your inexperienced' interpretations, is what is flawed ... as you believe your interpretations to dictate the "facts" ... I have to inform you, again, respectfully ~ they do not' ...
Please, do not be discouraged, ... these complex documents and filings were prepared at the highest level ... on purpose' ... these are "world class firms" ... presenting at the top of their game'
AZ
... Respectfully, ...
I find your interpretations of the Legal Filings and Relevant Documents regarding this WaMu Case'... Flawed, incomplete, and seriously misunderstood ...
... An honest and frequent mistake made by the inexperienced, within an endeavor as legally complex as WaMu' ...
Good Luck to You and Everyone' ... I hope everyone does well'
AZ
... Well, Let Me Say ...
As I view things, there are quite a few skilled message board posters, I guess the amounts of posts and the frequency of posts would dictate that observation ... however, ... numerous legal misunderstandings and misinterpretations, seem to be the "rule of the day"
... Many seem to present information in an extremely flawed and limited manner, just about every time many post' ... Personally, I am quite difficult to impress ... and I rely on factual information ... period' ... some posts are interesting, however must be researched'
Good Luck to All ... I surely hope, that those involved sought other research references than any presented and skilled mb poster' ...
AZ
... Everyone Released as Instructed ~ Right ? ...
Well, I surely hope that all of the retail investors that have been involved here, within the WaMu issue over all of these years, were in a position to "release" their transitional shares, as instructed, and not only receive their allocated amount of WMIH (newco) shares at the March 2012' transition, BUT' as I believe we will see, for the near future' ... and more importantly, hold their allocated amount of their ( -esc ) escrow tracking markers within their individual accounts ...
... as I remember, even ol' rosie said "make sure you sign those releases" ...
AZ
... Here Are A Few of My Assumptions ...
... This is what I believe is a current possibility as we find ourselves moving forward ...
... The connections between the Liquidating Trust and WMIH are very much alive and well' ~ and, the Liquidating Trust does not have the legal mechanics in place to handle any liquidation nor, to address the servicing of illiquid assets, which are now in a position to be returned to the originating estate (again, the Liquidating Trust & the now current holders of the escrow tracking markers') ...
In My Opinion' this is where the recently released notification, of the extreme increase of stock availability for the newco' (3.5 billion shares, soon to be available) will soon come into play and or our own reality as the new company moves forward with KKR & Citi's assistance' ...
WMIH' will issue a stock for value transition between itself (WMIH) and the holders of the ( -esc ) escrow tacking markers being held by all who released' at transition ... Releasing participants, as the literal owners within the Plan designate ~ Liquidating Trust ~ of the original debtors estate (WMI)
Ones owned' ( -esc ) tracking markers being considered as a designated counter' for the transitional amount of WMIH shares received for value' ...
This preplanned action, again In My Opinion ... allows many things to happen ...
This WMIH stock for value transition, between the newco, and the holders of the tracking markers, would allow, the Bankruptcy Court to continue to work through its own remaining and existing issues regarding the employee claims, etc ... all of the time utilizing The Courts ability to be in a position, to be able to utilize The Plans designated Pay Out Matrix Attachment H' as adjusted by mediation and the now approved Plan7 ~ for any cash distributions as they come in (the waterfall as referenced')
... Piers securities, or the last creditor class did not receive, transitional escrow tracking markers, so they would remain impaired' within the Tranche Payout Matrix as the Company moves forward' ... so, not only would they (the piers holders) not participate in a "stock for value" transition between the newco and the Liquidating Trust' ... but this also would allow the company, The now moving forward WMIH' ... be in a position to separate itself from the Bankruptcy Court as the newco could now move forward' ... unimpaired by the past' ...
AZ
... Sure, Quite a Few Things Actually' ...
And, if you don't mind ~ maybe you' could post for all to see what I have been incorrect about ...
Quickly, off of the top of my head' ... here is a sample of a few of the issues I have posted about' and encouraged open discussion regarding' ...
I brought a discussion forward, regarding the existence of the Bankruptcy Courts Registry Accounts
I brought to the discussions, The Company's display within their own SEC Filings of Capital Loss' availability and Net Operating Loss availability' ... Both' as presented by the company'
I brought to the discussion table, the important distinctions between the "Day Calculations" presented on message boards, not being correct, within the utilization of a "day" calculation back to the Plan's "Implementation Date" ... when the filings clearly referred to the "Confirmation Date"
I have discussed the distinctions between our company, (WMIH) NOT' actually receiving a Company Designated PLR from the IRS (Private Letter Ruling)
The assignments regarding JPMorgan Bank, N.A. (JPMorgans Banking Sub)~ Not only Not' receiving anything' other than the servicing rights for the extensive WMI Loan File' but also Not' being in a legal position to actually obtain ownership' of said Loan File
I have discussed many times, regarding numerous issues as stated within the "The Examiners Report" ~ specifically the many references to the designated and filed "footnote 39" within, said report'
I posted recently regarding, the R-203 distinctions within the 12/31/2014 recently riled by JPMorgan (10-K)
I have posted many times, regarding the legal separations between the parents filed' WMI Bankruptcy and the Bankruptcy Court designated legal limitations and the distinctly separate WMB seizure by the FDIC September 2008'
I have presented, numerous "distinctions" presented within the now reviewed and signed "Purchase & Assumption Agreement" between the FDIC & JPMorgan as it's receiving bank
I have posted numerous references to the FDIC site itself' and its publically stated procedures, involving all seized entities ~ irrelevant of whether they, the FDIC, found a receiving bank or not (obviously in our case, they did)
I have submitted many references to the US Congress Passed ~ 1934 Act ~
I have presented, numerous wording references within many documents, as prepared and presented to the people'
I have presented numerous references to the "Goulding Document" as prepared and the Courts "Plan of Confirmation" Order being almost a direct copy and paste
I brought to the boards, a discussion regarding Filing # 8179 ~ "The Standing Motion" ~ filed on the "eve" of the Court Room Hearing for the tentative approval of Plan 6 by Susman & Godfrey' ~ (July 2011) ~ (obviously Plan 6 failed)
... Do you' want me to continue ? ... I have more'
AZ
... Well ? My Opinion, ? ...
Well, my opinion on numerous issues, has been formed after reading many documents ...
I guess it is possible that numerous legal filings and documents have been filed with false and misleading information, ... But I do not believe so ...
AZ
... Simply, WMB was WMI's Designated Servicer ...
WMB, as WMI's designated Servicer' or servicing agent is documented numerous times, within many SEC filings, and contractual agreements ...
The FDIC was only in a position to seize the banking Sub, WMB ... which IS NOT listed as "owner" of these discussed Mortgage Trusts, ... so subsequently, JPM, could only receive, servicing rights, via the transition of the FDIC's designation of "receiver" given to JPM upon the FDIC's seizure of WMB in Sept, 2008 ... or put another way, The FDIC, was only in a position to offer JPM, the servicing rights ...
Amendments to numerous SEC filings transition the stipulation of "ownership" to be referred to as "Master Servicer" ... the wording is important ...
Our, originating debtors estate, (The Liquidating Trust) ... and WMIH are, and continue to be connected ...
Thank You to LG, Tanj, and Board, for your continued DD
AZ
... Tanj, JPM Also Agrees with Those Listed ...
The R-203 filed within JPMorgans recently filed 10-K releasing information up to 12/31/2014 ... This filed 10-K ,... JPMorgans recent filing gives us all an indication of the massive numbers involved ...
And ... YES' ... I wanted to emphasize, ... Everything, ... being returned to the original debtors estate, MUST' ... go through the Liquidating Trust ...
... Also, as we have all been reviewing over the weekend' ... WMIH should begin to move since the filing release last Friday' ...
GLTA ...
AZ
... Yes, I'm SURE' Everyone Holds an Opinion' ...
However, what "everyone" doesn't hold, are their allocated amount of transitional WMIH shares OR the escrow tracking markers which would have been associated to those same security's ... had one not followed the suggestion of equity's representation ... and sold out prior to transition or not released ...
For conversation, let's use a generic example ...
Say someone had 15,000 P security's during the first quarter of 2012 and decided to liquidate their holdings prior to the Mar 2012 transition ? ...
Well, that hypothetical shareholder would NOT have received any escrow tracking markers, for an opportunity to participate within a future Tranche 6 distribution ... But, for a more immediate result, That same hypothetical person would NOT have received some ... ( rough numbers ) ... 15,000 X 20 ish newco shares as a transitional result or equalling an existing value of some ... 300,000 shares of newco X's say $2.00 per share, or a today's value of some $600,000.00 ...
Just some rough numbers and thoughts' ... Opinions are one thing, but money pays the bills' ...
AZ
... Critical Information Was Missed ...
While many remained focused on the WMI Bankruptcy, and it's proceedings, ... There was another very important process, The FDIC's procedural process regarding it's seizure of WMB, also in consideration ... I'm sure, those that were familiar with the law and the complete process, understood these two separate and distinctly exclusive operations ...
Again, the Purchase and Asumption Agreement that remained in tact between the FDIC and it's receiving bank, ( JPM ) ... kept everything' off limits until the contracts termination, last September 25, 2014 ...
... This is why Blackstone has never been far away, and why KKR and Citi are here now ... I believe the process is about to begin reasonably soon
R's obligation to the original debtors estate ... and everyone on stand by, to help the liquidating trust handle these returns ...
AZ
... Thank You, All for the Kind Words ...
Acknowledging the research means quite a lot from this seasoned group of retail holders, here on this forum, and is appreciated from each and every one of you ... And yes, at this point in time, as KKR & Citi have now committed as of Jan 2015, ... Just a few thoughts as we move forward ... and yes, we' will move forward, in a very positive fashion, ... quite soon, ~
... As many folks know, I have owned WaMu since Jan 2006 ... Obviously, as an investor, I paid attention to their standings and marketing strategies ... When we moved into early 2008, ... I was sayin "what the heck is up" ... like all of us, I watched what happened, scratchin' my head the whole way ...
WaMu appears to be solvent, and making its way through the crisis' ... Bonderman & TPG Group are committing cash infusions, early on 2008, ... while Goldman is hired by WaMu to search for potential buyers ? ... Yowzzaa ... WaMu NEVER' counters any of the bids presented, and Blackstone Capital even makes a second and increased offer to buy' ... nothing comes back from WaMu, countering, or stating what they actually wanted for an acquisition price ... Nothing' ...
( 8-ball ... hmmm ... was WaMu earmarked to be seized ? the folks involved here, were ALL at the very top of the financial food chain' )
So, then something, I found interesting happens ... On Nov 19th' 2008, ( just a few short weeks after the seizure ) ... a filing is presented to the bankruptcy court and quickly signed by the Judge ... ( I posted about this including the link, on the other board ) ... this filing presented, reorganized and bankruptcy exiting, new company ownership percentage limitations moving forward from this particular date, Nov 19, 2008 ... any ownership percentages up to that point ? were okay, beyond the filings date ? ... the designated limitation percentages were in place moving forward ...
Now, let this "ol' idiot biker" ... ask a stupid question ? ... who, would give a care about ownership percentage limitations for an exiting participation, in a reorganized WaMu upon its bankruptcy exit, just three weeks after the original seizure ? ... ( where is my turnip truck ? ... I need to throw myself off the back of it ) ...
Well, the list would be quite long ... (Bonderman & TPG private equity, included ?)
So, turning the page, a bit ... I believe Mike W and the S&G Group, to have understood the task at hand, to be, to ... legally, ... have an ending result, where equity and or innocent and unsuspecting shareholders, ... would also be included in the ending result ... Now, as we have all seen, ... the task was accomplished ... Thank You Mike, Equity Folks, and S&G ...
Again, I used to say I wanted to see the BIG picture, however, once my research lead me back to early 2008 and prior to the seizure, everything began to make sense ... not' right or wrong ... but make sense ...
Remember everyone, .... WE retailers that released our class 19's and class 22's and hold markers are the lower percentage of all who hold escrow markers ... WE have a lot of company within that pool of future recipients of the returning assets to the debtors estate ... ( R ) ...
Once a separation of the FDIC's guidelines invoked upon its seizure of WMB is separated from the WMI Bankruptcy, coupled with Delaware BK Law, ... the event and time line begin to become clear ...
Again, I firmly believe, that all that purchased their ticket to be on this money train, via their signed releases and the ultimate issue of individualized tracking escrow markers, will be financially rewarded, at an equal 75% ~ 25% ratio along with all that saw the money train placed on the tracks, in early 2008 ...
Good luck to us all ... This newco' is going to fly ...
AZ
... I Don't Mean to Upset Anyone ...
... Respectfully, and to everyone involved; I'm not trying to upset anyone, I am just completely sure within my own studies and research regarding both sides of this WaMu coin ... The, escrow marker recipients ( recipients of the original debtors estate ) and the current and existing holders of the WMIH shares, as we move forward ... especially now as we have our new partners'
... I have researched 1000's of pages of documents, as I went back to early 2008 beginning with WaMu's hiring of GS to seek out potential purchasers, (the stinky stew thread over on the other board) ... through Bonderman, thru the seizure of WMB and then WMI's Bankruptcy filing ~
The separation of the seizure, and the FDIC's responsibility to its receiving bank, (JPM) is a very important and key issue ... this issue has to be viewed separately from the WMI Bankruptcy ... ( WMI's Bankruptcy HAD TO "be confirmed" prior to the termination of the Purchase and Assumption Agreement between the FDIC & JPM, or all hell would have broken loose') (wasn't going to happen')
Again, for those that trusted our people that mediated our result ? and released their class 19 & 22 securities to obtain escrow tracking markers ? ... WE' should all be in great shape' ... The same with the new company as we now will begin to move forward ...
I only have two remaining questions regarding the markers and returns to the original debtors estate' ... 1st is when ? and 2nd is how much ... I am pretty easy goin' ~ so the way I see things ? ... the when ? shouldn't be too much longer all things considered ... and the how much ? ... should be quite a bit' ... substancially more than most that understand the entire process expect ... those returning Trusts from "R" are worth a lot' of money... Blackstone, KKR & Citi know it along with ol' AZ ...
Good luck to everyone ... and I'm secure within my research ... I don't have very many more questions ... just watchin' and waitin' for a little bit' longer ~ (lookin for an 8k from the trust notifying everyone that some "stuff" has been received' back from the FDIC' )...
My mind can not be changed ~ I've done the work' and I'm satisfied with both potentials for return' ... so again, I don't mean to upset anyone, I just have a lot invested, both time within the research and a whole bunch of money, both from pre & post transition'
Everyone Have a Great Day'
AZ
... Well, I know you asked Green, ...
However, ... Yes ... The ( -esc ) escrow markers will be the recipients of distributions ... The process has always been planned to ultimately be connected ... Retailers that released on merely the "trust" of our people will fair quite well ... those that chose a different path, ... will not be involved, in the entire program ... only to the level of an individual's participation ... either in newco, or the markers, or in most cases, ... BOTH' ... two sources of returns ...
Again, at the time, many could not vision beyond the WMI Bankruptcy, ... However, the FDIC's seizure of WMB, kept all issues off limits, while the Purchase and Assumption Agreement was still intact between the FDIC and its receiving bank, JPMorgan Bank, N.A ...
Mildly, and simply put ... Apples and Oranges ... between the two processes'
The Trusts will be returned to the original debtors estate, by the FDIC ... Our own liquidating trust ...
The "trust" as it exists, does not have the mechanics in place to handle these operations, which is why, Blacksone has never been far away' and the reason for our new friends, KKR & Citi ...
Both will flourish as the process is realized ... The new company ? WMIH ... and the holders of the trust markers ...
AZ
... When I Post Here ...
I do my best to only include links or relevant information for the benefit of all ... Regarding this current survey thing ? ... I do not find that individual request interesting, nor am I familiar with the person making the request or why ... I don't merely guess and take my investments seriously ...
I would always hope, each individual involved, has benefited by the extensive research that has been done by many, and everyone has been given the opportunity to achieve their own conclusions ...
Those that have followed, understand and already know where I believe we are headed, both new company and the recipients of the ( -esc ) escrow trust markers ...
I was surprised to recently read that BK, did not receive any exiting markers ... I believe that was a shame for anyone that has been involved here ... I hope he has been in a position to hit the newco shares hard ... Everyone that has been involved for so long, should be able to financially benefit, IMO ...
To merely consider the WMI Bankruptcy exiting, approved Plan 7 ? Would have been a financial error for any individual ... I surely hope the amount of people choosing to not release is a small number ... MW worked very hard to achieve the positive result for all of equity
So, to all involved ? ... surveys are meaningless, ... study the documents and sequence of events as they have occurred and the future becomes very clear, as seen thru AAOC's eyes ...
Good Luck To Us All,
AZ
... Well Done' ...
I put that little tidbit in there on purpose to see who could stray from the continuation of thoughts presented ...
You are correct, Dodd Frank was passed due to the 2007 - 2008 financial crisis' ...
Sometimes I like to see if the conversation can be stimulated beyond any noticeable talking points ...
One recently begins with a "my opinion" and ends with "mostly fact" ... ok den'
and then others throw around words like "legal" yet refuse to acknowledge the actual filings associated with the actual issues at hand' ...
just sayin'
AZ
... AND ~ In My Opinion, Why KKR is Here ~ ...
Now, Just My Opinion, However, I may have bought into the whole ... KKR is here merely for the WMIH zero value shell with some NOL's future' ... (35% of 5.97b ~ yada yada yada')
Nope, had the rights offering been comparatively less than some 25% of KKR's Liquid Cash on Hand, I may have bought into the NOL' slow growth theory etc etc ... But 400m ? in convertible B series preferreds ? ... HHHMMM'
And then Citi ? jumpin in ? those dudes can not take any chances ... just sayin' ...
However, again, and In My Opinion, KKR & Citi (and I also think Blackstone) are sittin' in the hallway waiting for the FDIC to return assets seized that have NOT been in a position to be liquidated as a return to the original debtors estate' ...
And the fella's are just waitin' in the hallway to help us out ...
just sayin'
AZ
... Well, Probably More Than That' 100B ...
I guess we just have to keep going over the same things, over and over, however, I do get told that there are many people that read the posted information ... so ~
... Yes, 100B worth of Loans ? and probably more than that, ... The extensive WMI Loan File was not allowed to be reviewed by the Examiner' ... (footnote 39' of the examiners report, has been posted here numerous times) due the fact that the WMI Loan File which was to be "serviced" by Chase was still within the confines of the initiated, Purchase & Assumption Agreement between the FDIC & JPMorgan ... and was NOT a party to, or able to be a consideration of' the WMI' Bankruptcy Proceeding while that contract was activated' upon seizure ...
(WMI's BK settlement was achieved, simply, utilizing WMI's own cash on hand, plus some tax refunds) (upon the FDIC's seizure, the assets within the Assets plus the extensive loan file were not able to be a WMI financial consideration, due to Dodd Frank which was the law of the land in Sept 2008)
... All' which was seized' by the FDIC' ~ back in Sept 2008, was legally "hands off" while the PA&A contract remained an active and liquid contract' ...
... Anyone can complain away to the SEC, and request as many audits as one would want ~ However ~ Upon the FDIC's seizure of WMB and their initialized contract (PA&A) with JPMorgan ? ... the Loan File along with the ( a's ) within the ( A's) was off limits until the contract finally terminated ~ 9/25/2014 ...
The 1934 Act explains the procedures utilized within an action of this sort, in very great detail
... JPMorgan received the servicing rights to the extensive WMI Loan File ... JPMorgan paid an "initial" payment to the FDIC' ... The "assets within the Assets" did NOT transfer to JPMorgan ...
reference; the GSA' ~ The Disclosure Statement' ~ The Purchase & Assumption Agreement' ~ the Examiners Report' ~ The Plan of Confirmation' ~ The Goulding Document (in support of) ... etc ...
One merely has to review the literal standing of WMB (only) at the time of seizure and be in a position to separate the issues to understand the legal process that was utilized and adhered to'
... Follow the time line and the documents ...
AZ