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shares are the same as when the unicorn was alive.....
perhaps some shares are coming out....that would hit the float...not dilution.....again for me the cap is the target...
3-4mm.....with mulit million market potential....with mm contract in hand (you think bogus - your call)...
i see 10-20mm cap....as foundation....starting platform....at this level goes to if the company performs or not....
i am in....you are not....we shall see....
$VCOR is the unicorn of 2015. New shell acquired and paid off $6M in debt only $13k left. Uplisting to QB and huge Contracts and revs coming in.
hmmmmm....
we shall see.....
contract in hand from vgor is a 5 yr 50mm contract...others in hand being worked....capacity growing...experienced ceo....news coming....restored green status....all in 6 mo....
like to progress....and think we will see new support.....
I expect this will move in the near future....
while frustrating i see the accumulation going on as part of a real foundation....taking out all weak holders...ready for a serious move to catapult out of these levels.....i dont think mgt has invested so much to play around down here.....
but first need to clean up
IMHO
well have to say
you called it....
still feel solid about where this is going....up not down....
lol....
so this was the dump?....tiny order....certainly not going to make anyone rich...or even pay their laundry bill....
we shall see how it plays out in the coming days
lol....pretty funny....
well then we are all wasting our time....yes?
For me....dont think the fat lady has appeared...lol
that assumption assumes they do not achieve any business success..and their mission is to squeeze out shares on unsuspecting buyers on promise but no fulfillment,,,,,
I however feel the releases are real..the biz is real...and that revs will drive cap....well above here
we shall see
Im sure it does happen....
but think you underestimate the costs for listing in this case....i am/was close to the last co....and know what a mess it was. It took a long time and hard work with accounts, legal, and time/effort.
Lets assume we had an est 20mm shares between .01 and .003....say average .006....maybe $120,000k value....and of course not all 'them'...and that is a high estimate. And now much lower....will be some really hard work to squeeze mils from bogus work.
Now perhaps....just perhaps....they are trying to build a company....that builds value to .02-.03....then beyond.....opportunity to sell a much smaller stake for higher prices and nets much more.....sounds much more attractive....
so lets just see how this plays out....my feeling is that they are in fact trying to build a company....not a trading pump vehicle...
My guess is we will now see more news...with support and interest...
Yes
i agree they do...so the point stands....why do they invest 100,000's to start a co....to sell for 100,000's IF that to date.
Would be shooting themselves in the foot.
The opportunity is real....some seen to have a hard time accepting this - and true in in the pinks there are scams...but to follow the news for 6 mo....see how this started...see the fit with VGPR...see the ongoing efforts...see a credible CEO accept to join...see a deal in hand for MM's...see expanded production in place....see the fact they have NOT pumped this...and by that i mean you dont see this in PR bulletins from penny brokers selling the next hot fad...
There is little to no advert on this...the trading is all word of mouth...old holders and new owners....
I do have a concern about the selling.....yes....but see the support as the counter balance....there is someone taking this all in :) and i dont think buying at .003 to sell for .002....
Endless??
Share Structure
Market Value1 $3,171,161 a/o Feb 18, 2015
Shares Outstanding 1,057,053,690 a/o Oct 15, 2014
Float 583,181,244 a/o Oct 15, 2014
Authorized Shares 5,000,000,000 a/o Oct 15, 2014
Par Value 0.0001
These are the same as noted last year. There are some noted in financials- above board, nothing nefarious - large holders who are likely the founders who helped finance the transfer from the old to new company, and I dont think they have an interest in blowing up their own investment.
The market and opportunity is here for lots higher. Certainly mgt as well as all traders and investors will take profits - or sell as needed...but i dont think the company is going to fund the scale growth planned hurting its shareholders and the cap.... and CERTAINLY not as a sinister policy seemingly implied
Either way - it is value to cap that matters (to me). If we are looking at 10-20mm revs a year and growing....see this a lot higher then a 3mm cap stock.
Vapor - can you clear this up for me
who are 'they' that are dumping shares and why?
Note- in release today - news this is ONE account - others being worked.
Capacity being increased
10 years speaks to a long term plan...and commitment
Long working association between companies facilitates progress
JG is on board and serious
Current deal in hand - From the deal in hand (by VGPR Vega) - news from last year. They have been searching how to produce and now we are it!
Excerpts (06/2014)
"The Company (vgpr) has entered into an Agreement with Austrian based, ECEM Salzburg Energy and Environment Consulting GmbH to sell 50,000 tons of Bio-Coal each year for the next five years. The five year deal will generate approximately $57 million in revenue to Vega."
"At a price of $230/mt, this project will generate approximately $11 million in revenue to Vega each year for the next five years."
Now next step is to get shipments out...we are in BIZ!!
great work VCOR in 6 months!!
Love it
Last releases indicated work was already underway to ship in the (last) month... Hope we follow asap with notice of actual orders moving
Also interested in the other opportunities for vcor - stand alone supplier, other products etc
But another good step forward!
The investment it
Has taken to clean the former company up, and bring this new biz, in dynamic market, as well as hire JG as CEO is substantial .... Not an effort for a few sub- penny advances
Looking for contract path to 10-30mm with corresponding share cap as first foundation for real steps forward
Rather / green go sign restored
Let's go!
Pink status restored
So who has been taking all
the shares in? If there wasn't interest this would be in trips now... But what is happening is these shares are all being taken in by those who are confident of making $
Yes - unless the wheels fall off we are headed higher....
possibly much higher.
While the back tracing was disappointing....someone was taking that all in....i think this company has a team that knows what it is trying to do.
The releases have all been building to where we are now....new contracts, new supply, new capacity...a ready market....a bonafide CEO in the industry,....and from tea leaves the $ behind this seems to have some big plans.
My guess is the financials are finished this week...and we pick up where we left off on last run...but this time for real. The last was a big shake...old timers dropping out...and new traders losing interest...i would not be surprised to see this catapult out of range to break free of the micro traders...
All about execution...and communication...and $....but feeling it is a steal down here.
This is my sense as well....
I do share my thoughts with mgt fwiw....managing fast growth is key....., the challenges as real business hits,operational, investor, sales, execution etc... of course IR/PR, ensuring we dont fall back....need critical mass to break out of this level and orbit....new eyes, $ etc
I agree - my feeling is pretty soon...it has to be...as noted..this biz will go to first and fast movers who consolidate big pieces.
I generally don't post on this thread,
as i am more invested in the sister company Vencor. However I have built a position here as well.
I came to this later than many here and share the following.
I think it is important to step back and see what seems to be happening. Vencor, with CEO James Gaspard at the helm has positioned itself as the supplier for Vegas accounts. Of course other suppliers may arise including the ATI venture. But why should Vega invest in its own plant, when it can have a very close relationship with a supplier in hand.
Per recent release the last add-on capacity at Vencor produces at low cost (still like to learn more of course). It doesn't make sense for Vega to raise and spend capital to produce when it can simply buy at a (I assume) a great price from a supplier.
The attachment to ATI is understandable as for a time it was the only game out there - but my guess is that ATI is/was not a hungry commercial group...having a more academic bent and root.
As most know this tech does not have a deep moat...the advantage and success will go to first movers of scale...who can consolidate as much as possible, line up longterm contracts with larger users or whole sale distributers, and who can operate smartly in a tight price, low margin environment.
The other item i keep an eye on is that the other Vega product is Char and comes from....James Gaspard's BioChar co. Some obvious prospect writing on that wall.
It is very frustrating on both sides to not have better communication - but if we assume there are some big shifting of gears here- perhaps long term arrangements and changes - as well as the financials...perhaps they cant say much as yet.
My sense is some dust will settle soon....and the picture will be bright.
Pretty soon this could be copper
Pretty soon a lot of things....we shall see.....but as I have a stake in the game have a different concern from those who do not.
I certainly only have time to follow and research securities i am investing in ...for me when i sell out my time is dedicated elsewhere....unless jumping back in :)
In this case - all in....like to hear more from Mgt....like to see support from more then small fry $$...
pretty soon we shall see !
Far cry from 'not responding' to
'nothing true'.
Clearly if the releases are all untrue then it is actionable. But why would anyone in their right mind start /take over a company, invest the huge amount of time and resources required to generate a (to date) such a meager return - if any?
I do believe some do get responses from mgt - on occasion i do. Believe me i want to be assured i know as much as i can.
It is very hard to disprove a negative...perhaos they dont release location of plants so they wont get visitors, or proprietary, perhaps they have a remote/virtual office because they are not sitting around all day posting and out in field. Not a securities lawyer but assume they cant get green or further status unless they have paperwork in order.
Are there questions - yes! but i have questions about Conoco....about Netflix...about many investments...and they dont invite me to their tech rooms or for plant inspections or planning sessions.
Ill share with you my question / concern. How does mgt assure they can dedicate time to each enterprise they are involved with , without diluting energy and focus. Between vcor, vgor, ATI and Bio Char...lots of angles. On the plus side they ll relate and may support each others business. But lots to manage.
Maybe they all fold into one!
But for now I applaud their efforts, see no reason to doubt (after 4 months!) and am long and strong.
caveman aspersions aside,
this is nothing new ...
The dilution came about in last fall when the new mgt took over. This is not a surprise and has been reported and public.
This SAME share construction was expressed as great in judging the company including your view as I recall.
I do share a caution / concern for any dilution moving forward not transparently tied to actual incoming accretive value.
That said i will will not prejudge based on suspicion.
Further - i stand by my judgement that it makes no sense to 'dump' or dilute' on the part of the company as it likely yields pennies on the dollar for investments to date. There are quite a few legacy shares out - old vcor holders that may have woken up and simply wanted out. There are also micro traders who can see moves of .0035 - .01 as a playground.
I do hope the company follows on its efforts to get us out of this exchange...this would help settle these type of concerns
what dilution do you refer to
apart from what is reported out?
Not sure about everyone...
but i believe we will see this move forward over the next few weeks getting back to copper.
The yield sign is very very likely due to extra time needed for the Q or K, This has happened before - and is no concern - my guess is this too will be cleaned up within a week or two.
The big picture is
Jan 29, 2015 Vencor International Introduces First Torrefaction Machine
Jan 15, 2015 Vencor International Receives Purchase Order to Produce 3,000 Tons of Bio-Coal
Jan 13, 2015 Vencor International to Acquire Exclusive Rights to Torrefaction Equipment
Dec 17, 2014 Vencor International Enters Into Agreement to Produce Bio-Coal
Dec 11, 2014 Vencor International Product Testing Approved
Dec 9, 2014 Vencor International Provides Agenda for Shareholder Conference Call
Dec 4, 2014 Vencor International Hires LAR Law Group PC to Initiate Uplisting Process to OTCQB
Dec 1, 2014 Vencor International Schedules Shareholder Conference Call
Nov 19, 2014 Vencor International Chooses Industry Expert to Lead Its Alternative Energy Business
Nov 10, 2014 New Look for Vencor International, Inc.
Nov 4, 2014 Vencor International, Inc. Reduces Debt by Over Six Million Dollars
Now I have followed a few companies and the pace these guys are moving is pretty amazing. In 4 months...repeat 4 MONTHS....the steady pace is remarkable. Understand this is also a very lean group.....so a delay here or there,..making sure the books are correct (thank you)...is all part of building a small business into to a big one.
From CC i remember Mr Gaspard saying there were just a handful of employees. So they are tasked to the max.
Common sense indicates this company is for real...and not as some fear a P&D vehicle. The costs to take the former company (which i held, to my regret)...and get it to reporting, install new mgt, foundation funding etc, is expensive. Not something to do for a few pennies of 'dilution' or 'dumping'
Another perspective is to see that they do not yet even have a PR/IR group working this. All focus is on fundamental growth and building blocks. If this were a group trying to inflate value the first thing would be the PR. But while possible one is very hard pressed now to get feedback from the Vencor team. Just too much on their plates.
Once the first accoutns are being shipped, a 1-2 more new are signed, and 1-2 more machines are contracted and producing there will be no holding it back. THEN we will see PR pushes.
...
The market is REAL.
The opportunity is REAL.
Our CEO is REAL (and credible both by integrity and in-business experience.)
The steps being taken align with mission and releases.
There certainly can be doubt if they can move fast enough to capture and execute a critical threshold of business...and manage the growth. But all signs to me show it is a very good bet.
The figure i watch is the cap...and at 3-4 mil in a market where revs could easily project to 50mm + in within the year this has huge upside.
long vcor
Keep an eye on the releases...
while it discouraging to see the shares fall they will rise again in the very near term as more information comes to light.
The assertion of declines after news as part of a mgt plan doesnt make any sense....it is more in the hands of small traders ....not one of raising cash for the company. The costs of cleaning up vencor reporting, shares and getting to Pinks...is substantial. The endorsement of having James Gaspard as CEO and news on a consistent basis since the new teak took over suggests a real plan and progress.
The dollar value of the trading since the penny level is not significant and certainly not a means to support a company.
The assertion of some seems to be that a few folks invested hundreds of thousands to clean the company up with the goal of making....a few hundred thousand selling shares into oblivion....a really hard way to make a living.
Perhaps...there is a real company here...perhaps mgt is working hard and has eyes on a potential multi million dollar market....perhaps the news is true...
I dont think mgt sits around each day watching these boards or following daily trading....
That said i do encourage mgt to put in place an IR/PR team to be responsive to lead the messaging.
I think the shares are a steal at this level...market cap of 3mm...with multi million contracts being worked ...as before i think this justifies .01-.02 as these first steps are clarified and made more transparent....then an opportunity for much more once the foundation is in place.
It is clear the tech works...
It is also clear that vcor is working very hard to move fast to scale up.
The pressures for the stock will continue on and off...as the news comes.
The key point for me is the note of tripling (getting 2-3 more machines
" Our plan is to have three of these machines operating during 2015. We are now moving very aggressively to capture as much business as possible and we couldn't have done it without the Torretherm machine."- J Gaspard
The key as an investment is this race - can the company show its path to 1- profitability and 2- scale building lasting value and market security.
The company clearly is working with tight staff and controlling costs....but i do feel they need to dedicate some focus to investor awareness and response.
The picture has to be painted to show how we get from the 4mm out of this one order to an increased 10 fold....address what is scale of opportunity...how fast...competition and tie to the transparent plan of how we do it
Also to show lasting contracts that can scale up....IE a deal with a coal co...pilot with X as possible. This will stabilize the revs and bottom line.
Only then can we put the sub penny land behind us
Thought about that
think it is premature and sooo not in culture. I would say the same for the big pulp and waste companies. Why not profit from exess
Like software I think this has to get far enough down the road as proven - let someone else (us) take the risk and grow the scale....then move in.
But is such a different business that like ethanol and other subsututes...likely best as close with agreements but allowing other mgt to work
Other reason is that each coal co is out for itself....this is a source for multiple users
just thoughts
Bio coal opportunity
some are not aware of how central coal is to the world as a primary source of electricity generation
What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source?
In 2013, the United States generated about 4,058 billion kilowatthours of electricity. About 67% of the electricity generated was from fossil fuel (coal, natural gas, and petroleum), with 39% attributed from coal.
In 2013, energy sources and percent share of total electricity generation were
Coal 39%
Natural Gas 27%
Nuclear 19%
Hydropower 7%
Other Renewable 6%
Biomass 1.48%
Geothermal 0.41%
Solar 0.23%
Wind 4.13%
Petroleum 1%
Other Gases < 1%
The continued push for clear coal will undoubtedly offer up an opportunity for a coal mix to include in burn feed
In his CC Mr Gaspard directly addressed this as a key focus. It is also the end market for the announced order to Vega Bio Fuel
The issue isn't IF it could work...it is how fast to have a reliable source and production means for the massive amounts they could use.
no argument...
just difference between investment and trading....
depends on time frame....we can take any one week ..or one month...and find little or no support for any number of securities...doesnt mean scam...doesnt mean no value...lots of factors....
If we chart a time frame of 1 or 6 months we will see different pictures...what pops out is the activity in the jan sell...for me pops out as an event rather than a trend - this is penny stock trading in a thin security....
My guess is we will see a continuous slow move up into mid .01-.02 over the next 1-3 mo.
This all depends on execution...if the co completes the up-listing....reports out 2 or more significant accounts....the fundamental case will bring support
Given the news, the communication from mgt...i have a high level of confidence we will see progress..
Volume - dont see the 20mm
The company has moved up steadily since fall...touched .01 and over for about a week as part of the same climb in Jan. ...then short term profit takers bailed...
There was a flurry of new $ and the same exited....didnt see 20mm shares selling...
To my eye it was short term traders looking for a quick turn.
This is all fine...it is not a great trading vehicle at this point...it is an investment for those who are looking out a little further
Posted over at the other co....
bio coal asia
http://www.suncoal.de/uploads/downloads/Biocoal_Game_Changer_in_Asia.pdf
a wise man once said recently
If you want to make some serious cash my opinion is to have at the very least 1M-2M in shares at these cheap levels. Im at 2M and will load more. Anything below .01 is a gift right now with uplisting to QB volume will come in and this will fly. I think .10 min and possibly .25 if some large groups come in.
I have almost 2M shares in hopes this is the unicorn of 2015 that I think it is. Does everyone else? ;)
No one is going to sell anything substantial at 6 or 7. 8 is the new base and soon the bids will have to move up if they want. MM's dont sell at a loss as retail is holding.
Think this was VMan
this will be illiquid until it is not...
the gap has nothing to do with the shares...but the level of attention and patience on the part of underlying investors.
When they up-list, when they report a q or two that shows the reality of the growing rev that shows the path of where this is going the interest will transform,
right here it remains a speculation....and the voices mostly unicorn hunters who change minds week to week...
Review the news....know that if you look at the trading over the last 90 days...a steady growth....bid support higher each sell off....
i see them building a real co here....not trading it day to dsy
I agree
my feeling is there is LOTS of back of house work being done.
The upgrade of listing is most important - so we get out of the sub penny world...most serious firms wont tough anything down here.
The company is not pumping empty prs...but seems to be building a real foundation.
I would hope they open enough light into the plan so it goes beyond looking for the next 'news' and falls into a broader vision of where we are going, scale of market and how we are going to make it happen.
The potential is for a 50+ cap co...but we wil never touch this until the trnparency and financial foundations are in place.
I think they are working this as fast as they can....the ups and downs in the meantime, while tough on current holders, is not the focus
No
I dont think the 'market spoke'. I dont consider what we have now as the market in any maturity.
Strictly speaking yes, of course - the tiny market...the few traders looking at this now spoke...but for me there is no market as yet.
This is an investment...not a mature trading vehicle.
Tracking the buys and sells over the last months...we have a handful of players....relatively small $$...if someone comes in Tuesday with 1mm in buys we will see this back were it was...
But importantly if there was no support we would see this back to nothing....a look at the trend shows us still moving up...just open the time horizon.
but depends on objectives...good luck hunting the unicorn...
I see your concern...
and would share if not for other considerations noted.
There is very small market for shares...and very small awareness... the company has not yet even engaged this side of the biz.
A reason...painful in the moment ...for weak bid support is as you say there is no market....there is a plus and minus to this
I communicated with them some time ago about plans...and IR / PR / share visibility is very much on the agenda...but they want to put the meat on the bones first...need some there there first. I agree it is wise.
All too often these are about shares first and fast trading situations....i dont suspect that here.
They are not pumping - rather being very methodical...value will come
IMHO
Ouch....a little tough
1mm for value? Perhaps if shuttering the doors...the empty bathrobe co traded for more.
As you may remember - i commented on the posts that were looking for .10 and .25 in short term....and noted that the caps would be 100mm and more...unrealistic
My view is this has .02 in it on potential assuming they continue with the pace and steps we se,,,,,and a break out above only as fundamentals will tell the story.
The key as i see it is grabbng and creating scale asap. The market is there. There are a number of small players ...ripe to consolidate.
My 'dream' is they become the #1 player in USA - secure contracts with supply (large timber and waste co's) , acquire or contract production capacity as fast as they can,,,,secure stable multie year long term contracts....bring in the Char biz and other ,and become the first mover of scale in the us.
If on this path and clear - we can see .05 and up
Vapor,
good luck to you -
my point is mostly time horizon - we moved to .0135 on very little volume as you well know and commented. The share float is very tight as you also well know...so this plays to downside as well.
You are right ..for now it is illiquid. But i am guessing that the backers...and there are backers...are looking beyond this....and dont care a hoot about day to day swings...but will gladly be there to take in shares form those who want to bail. Even 3mm was only about 25k. Not many people getting rich in that.
As you say..beer money.
My guess is we will again see this creep back up. If you want to make $ here (at least for me ) is to look past the uplist, look past 2 or 3 Q's.
I think Molin and Gaspard are serious. The market is real. The potential is real. (potenital still..lots to do and demonstrate) It is my sense the $ folks who grabbed the shell have more plans in mind then a few pennies.
I think the share structure will again play to positive and big bid support will come in the coming 3-6 mo.
Imagine 4 more contracts - imagine a pilot with a Major coal co (did you remember that tidbit from the CC)...imagine an acquisition and yet again doubling of capacity.
Imagine an PR co actually promoting and and IR team for investors
This is still in its infancy...jury is out...but for me im giving this quite a bit longer...they are doing what they have said, seem to be moving pretty fast....and that in itself is rare in the pinks.
All IMHO
So...i am here and not there....be well
all ps issues have players with
nano second patience. Those saying share structure was amazing,,,,now say no support.
Over the last 12 weeks we saw a big move. We will see pumpers and dumpers all along the way.
Trading is terrific....but this is a real fundamental play....will go up and down,...but will move ahead.
My guess is we will see .025 by year end. Those that look for triples in weeks with major $ to pay them to dump will be disappointed,
We saw about 3.5 mm shares dumped into news....the same most prolific posters announced days later they are out...because the bid did not support. I would be patient and let it drop as well.
Each their own..i think holders will be well rewarded.