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rachel re: SSPX/SFLK, I agree. e/
SFLK @2.59 X .6= 1.55 SSPX valuation
Thus SSPX @ current 1.48 is close to SFLK valuation
oknpv
These prices won't last forever!
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2660999
Wave Systems Corp. is the leader in delivering trusted
computing solutions across multiple trusted platforms.
• Wave has conceptualized and developed key elements
in the trusted computing ecosystem.
• Trusted hardware – with secure software rather than
software - only solutions – is the most effective
combination for users.
• Wave is creating value for trusted platform modules
(TPMs) being deployed by industry leaders.
• EMBASSY® Trust Suite – value-added security solutions
are simple to enable and easy to use.
To view the entire document copy and paste the following link into your browser:
https://www.developer.ibm.com/solutions/isv/SSC_Attach.nsf/SSC_Edit/228.595407034409SOFE-5WYSUQ/$File/About%20Wave%2003-000051-2.pdf?OpenElement
oknpv
Did you read this piece by Brian Berger?
The most comprehensive summary to date that I have seen...powerful stuff!
http://www.wave.com/alliances/whitepapers/secure_01_2004.pdf
Doma, thanks and thanks. e/
Doma
1. Where did you get the KTM description? I looked on the website and couldn't find it.
2. Overall I like the updates to the website, but I think it's interesting that they no longer highlight that Wave has fundamental TC patents and employ some of the world's leading security engineers. I don't doubt that's all still true, it's just interesting that it's no longer mentioned (unless it's hiding somewhere and I missed it). I believe it used to be on the home page. Perhaps they have a good reason for not wanting to broadcast it!
3. Many, including yourself, have probably already read this...it is very comprehensive!
http://www.wave.com/alliances/whitepapers/secure_01_2004.pdf
Doma- Edit post #34652
What did you mean here?
you would have
thought for 50 cents to a dollar HP & Fujitsu would
bundle ETS....i suspect HP will soon when it no longer
is an option on their machines but more standard like
IBM.
Are you forward looking to when the IBM machines come with ETS bundled on the NSM Super I/O...therefore HP will also do that making ETS standard where currently ETS is only an upgrade available to HP users directly from Wave?
Doma
What did you mean here?
you would have
thought for 50 cents to a dollar HP & Fujitsu would
bundle ETS....i suspect HP will soon when it no longer
is an option on their machines but more standard like
IBM.
Are you forward looking to when the IBM machines come with ETS bundled on the NSM Super I/O...therefore HP will also do that making ETS standard where currently ETS is an only upgrade available to HP users directly from Wave?
Doma/eamonnshute
Nice work on the NSM Super I/O!
How can Dell go any other route!
Will Infineon and Atmel though, integrate their TPMs into a Super I/O?
awk. Thanks. Will check it out. e/
awk re: integration of Embassy-like architecture into the host's OS (NGSCB)
That makes a lot of sense. I think I finally understand.
Sure looks like Embassy IP is shared with TCG partners, most notably Intel/AMD and MSFT...and Wave gets something in return for this.
Of course in the future as TC evolves and Wave has more R&D resources, Wave can further develop E2100 as that might apply to non-NGSCB applications.
go-ks
Did you see rachel's post?
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2625848
Add to LaGrande, a programmable TPM (Embassy-like?), and the encrytion algorithms can be reprogrammed to thwart hackers per SKS's comments in that EEtimes article.
It seems some of the IP sharing that may take place between Embassy and TCG is related to the hardware itself (Intel and AMD) and the rest related to the way the OS (NGSCB) will process trusted applets.
go-ks/rachel
The determination at this point is that LaGrande/NGSCB does what Embassy 2100 can do but more robustly (as Rachel called it recently "E2100 on steroids").
If Wave is locked into some kind of an IP-sharing agreement with Inte/AMD/MSFT re: the Embassy architecture that would certainly be a great source of confidence for Wave.
awk
I was in a hurry this morning and was not able to fully digest your post first time around.
Great points!
The more interesting topic is how one would provide technology providing a secure execution environment for inexpensive consumer platforms other than PC's and/or cell phones.
For a long time I had been considering SOC's (system-on-a-chip) providing something like E2100 functionality.
However, I believe the recent SafeNet announcement at 3GSM and RSA that SafeNet will develop a TPM capability for Texas Instruments and ARM based chips and processors is a major step. Since these will be based on TCG standards, then Wave's TCG based products and infrastructures should be capable of supporting these platforms as well. The annual volumes of devices shipped based on these types of chips and processors is several time greater than the PC platform volumes.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2619546
Nice orda, but they need to correct that spelling. Do you want to call or shall I?
TIA
...plus KTM, which is nice.
But of course KTM would just have been added had Wave been at IBM earlier just as any new service will be added going forward.
awk/rachelelise
Thanks for your input.
It sounds like:
1. Programmability of the TPM would provide exactly the benefit SKS referred to in the EEtimes article, namely that encrytion algorithms could be reprogrammed on demand to thwart hackers.
2. LaGrande/NGSCB is essentially Embassy as far as it's ablilty to run applets (programmability) so it's sounds like the architecture borrows Wave IP...hmmm...interesting.
And rachelelise, your point about Embassy IP being even more applicable outside of an NGSCB environment, mobile platforms for example, is very significant.
awk
Yes, I was well aware of SKS's discussion as quoted in the eeTimesUK re: the market demanding a programmable chip (TPM). What always surprised me about that was that I don't think anybody here had considered programmability in that context before...ie. being able to reprogram the chip to thwart hackers. We had always thought of programmability as it pertains to the the processing of trusted apllication (trustlets) in Embassy.
I am still trying to understand if programmability of the TPM within the LaGrande/NGSCB architecture is an enhancement providing additional functionality, or if it would be redundant to LaGrande/NGSCB?
In the context of what SKS was quoted as saying in eeTimes, it would seem that a programmable TPM might enhance LaGrande/NGSCB.
I had meant to go back over the NGSCB whitepaper and then review Embassy to see if I could understand once and for all if LaGrande/NGSCB will be programmable in the same sense that Embassy is as that pertains to the processing of trustlets.
Attn: zen/Wildman
Looks like we got back a little of that runway today!
I think internet was right...the post-CC selloff was weak brothers...retail level...low volume. Come to think of it could have been some savvy traders also, selling the CC to get back in today or whenever it happened. Well, it happened today, so maybe some missed the boat.
Thanks awk. More on this later. e/
Snackman re: director's buy. Agreed.e/
dhamster
I doubt there will be a PR for either.
awk
When will IBM get with the program, break with their tradition of not bundling, and bundle ETS so that their end user IT managers will have an instant introduction to Wave? I am sure IBM wants Wave to get these users networkability since this will help drive business for all TCG players.
Could happen if IBM switches to NSM!
barge
SKS wasn't kidding when he said during the CC that Wave has a good relationship with MSFT!
zen
Still a runway to a better price for the next one, but it's getting shorter every day!
awk
I know we have been over this subject before, but if you take the LaGrande (and AMD equivalalent) architecture which is hardware and take the TPM that those systems will employ, and built that TPM so that it is programmable, will that complent the architecture?
In this scenario I have LaGrande running NGSCB and the TPM would also be programmable like E2100 hardware.
TIA
Nice find barge. You the man! e/
zen
I am sure Wave has financing options if needed...it's only a question of dilution...ie: how many shares outstanding before the company business can support operations.
Let's hope the BOD was banking on a higher share price (anticipating news or business) than last time's $1.90 sale when they made the decision to limit the size of the offering.
Nice work waveduke! Thanks. e/
Bob Gund
Thanks again for your initiatives...excellent clarifications.
Btw, if I am not mistaken, TPMs themselves are considered to be an I/O implementation.
http://www.national.com/appinfo/advancedio/
If you click on "Trusted I/O" (middle of the above page) you get:
http://www.national.com/appinfo/advancedio/others.html#trusted
PC21100
SafeKeeper™ and Security I/O
Wildman
Did Wave royally screw this up, or do they know of events that will happen that should move the stock?
There is still some runway for the latter.
EDIT: h_b_g
The results of the survey do not surprise me in the least. IT managers apparently buy TPM-enabled machines with file encrytion and password management in mind, as these are the two most intuitive uses for these early trusted PCs.
With the advent of Wave's interoperable Embassy Trust Server the possibilities for networking are now just barely emerging. I should think any competent IT manager would intuitively recognize the advantages, especially for something as simple and basic as keys migration and recovery.
I like to think that an advantage of bundling Wave with the TPM is that it introduces Wave and what Wave has to offer directly to the IT managers right out of the box. Surely this augments the myriad of other marketing efforts to reach these guys after they have have bought TPM machines. Obviously Wave is working hard to market their TPM services through the OEMs' sales channels (most major PC OEMs are Wave alliance partners) to the enterprise customers as these machines are purchased as well.
Hopefully Dell agrees to bundle Wave by using the NSM Super I/O. That would be huge! It's hard to imagine IBM who does not like to bundle other people's things following suit, but could that happen as well?
h_b_g
1. Every IBM notebook in the R, T and X series (except the lowest end models) on their website today comes with their TPM. I doubt everyone who buys an IBM notebook does so because of the TPM. Most people probably buy IBM notebooks because they are high quality products, and they don't have the slightest idea what a TPM is, IMO.
If IBM is now putting TPMs on most of their laptops that likely means they see that the user is demanding it. Enterprise users buy these products in volume blocks, so probably at this point IT managers who don't have a clue are still buying the cheaper non-TPM models, whereas the TCG-aware ones are buying the TPM units.
2. I keep making the distinction between a machine containing a TPM and a user using the TPM. Let's accept for discussion that IBM has sold 5 million machines with TPMs. How many of the TPMs are being used? We still don't know.
I would say virtually all IT managers who bought TPM machines from IBM know they have TPMs and have downloaded the IBM TPM software that comes with them (turned the TPM "on"). Without networkability however, functionality is limited. This is where Wave's Trust Server comes into play.
3. You still don't get the point of my question. If Wave has an essential service, and if many of the 5 million machines having TPMs are having the TPMs used, then why hasn't Wave sold many of their (supposedly) essential services.
Wave definitely has the technology for essential TPM services...networkablity of the platform. Like I said before, Wave is not bundled with the IBM machines. This means, unfortunately, that the Wave software is not on the desktop. The best Wave can do since IBM does not like to bundle other people's stuff, is to work through the various IBM sales channels to get to the end users. The idea of course is to get them to upgrade their TPM functionality to Wave's emerging portfolio of Trust Server services.
My answer to point 3 is that based on the lack of evidence of Wave having significant sales, either: (a) the TPMs aren't being used, or (b) Wave's services aren't essential, or (c) customers need Wave's services, but they haven't realized it yet. My guess is that (a) and (c) are true. I don't know if (b) is true.
IMO (a) and (b) are not true. (c) is a work in progress.
h_b_g
1. Does IBM sell machines without TPMs? If so, what are the relative sales figures?
I don't know the numbers. Obviously it's a small % of their total sales, but 5M is enough to prove that there is a siginificant interest in PC hardware security.
2. Do we know how many TPMs are being used with the machines IBM and HP have sold? If so, how do we know this?
We know IBM is 5M...we just know from the media. HP has less traction.
3. If many of these machines have TPMs being used, why hasn't Wave sold much of its services? (We know Wave hasn't sold much of anything.)
Wave is not bundled with IBM and HP, yet. We know some Intel whiteboxes and some NSM TPMs are moving into the market, with Wave bundled. If you follow this forum you will know that the NSM Super I/O is a possible (likely) significant vehicle for Wave bundling.
Have you read the brochure yet?
h_b_g
Why do you keep insisting that TPMs need an OS to use them?
It's obvious that TPM client-side software, either Wave's or the stuff that HP and IBM provide, is available now. When you buy an IBM Embedded Subsecurity System laptop it comes with the IBM software. Same with HP. What could be more simple? Am I missing something?
Same thing for the server-side...Wave's emerging Embassy Trust Server services. It's software that's available now, or will be shortly.
I agree that if all PCs have TPMs on them, many users will not have a clue (yes, tutoring the user population is an issue...of course), but for the immediate future IT managers are buying them for their functionality. Why do you think IBM has sold 5M of them?
eamonnshute
I agree that consumers won't know the difference at first and even some IT managers. But for the immediate future, I think those enterprises that pay a little more for a TPM know what they are buying.
zen
IMO licensing revenue is secondary to being on the desktop which is what bundling brings.
I think you are right that if bundling with the NSM Super I/O occurs in heavy volume we will see something closer to $.50, maybe even less if Wave begins selling the Trust Server upgrades in real volume.
Bob Gund
Thanks for your diligence with the SKS e-mail.
When I read the 10 per month I thought he meant 10 sites per month which would not be a lot of revenue...only a few mil/year. Hopefully there is recurring revenue by the month for servicing those sites. Might you not e-mail him again to confirm what he meant by 10 per month?
TIA
h_b_g
We discussed this at some length the other night. Apparently you remain unconvinced. Did you bother to peruse the Embassy Trust Server brochure at unclevername.com?
To me it's obvious that enterprise purchasers of TPM platforms will turn the TPMs on to begin with...otherwise why would they buy them?
Why is it so hard to understand that the Trust Server is the first and necssary step to networked trusted computing and that a lot of functionality can evolve prior to the availability of NGSCB?
eamonnshute
I want to thank you for the excellent work you have been doing in running down and updating all TPM implementations.
Your Toshiba ETS Pro find is very compelling. I think you are right that the KTM file is probably a primer, but it sure is nice to see it there just the same. I do think Doma is treading down the right path, namely that all PC OEMs will want to faciliate delivery of Wave's trust server services to their end users in order to bring network functionality to the TCG platform, and that that the first necessary step to accomplish that is putting ETS on the desktop.