Just doesn't seem right. If I eat 1lb of meat, how come I don't gain 1 lb when I step on the scale?

Sigh... I'm going to bed after this...

If you weigh yourself before you eat the meat, then eat a pound of meat, and the go weigh yourself again *right after* -- you will be... wait for it....



1 pound heavier.

Do you permanently gain a pound from doing this? No. Because your body requires energy to function. Some of the meat is converted into useful energy and some of it is expelled as waste.

(Mods note: on topic stuff coming, don't delete) :)

Algae can be used to clean up that waste! Goodnight!

And how about the Millions of tons of CO2 spewing into the air right now? Any idea? So I guess you'd rather have the big oil co continue to produce oil and give off CO2 rather than have algae make something useful out of it? Wow

That's not what I said at all - go back an read the post again.

You don't get something for nothing. We can use algae to produce all kinds of useful things in a carbon neutral way. But, you can't use products made from algae and also magically make all the CO2 go away.

I'm all for moving away from using fossil fuels for energy production (that whole nuclear, wind and solar thing from my last post - get it?).

All the oxygen on earth started with algae enough so that larger plants and animal could live. Algae consumes vast amounts of co2 and gives of oxygen. It is a good way to help fix the damage we have already done.

This is true only if you don't use it for fuel or food or almost anything else that would be useful.

You would have to grow the algae and then try to store it in some fashion where it would not decompose if you wanted to sequester the CO2 indefinitely. You could pump the oil byproduct into all those oil wells that are now empty. But, none of that seems realistic to me.

Nuclear, wind and solar for energy. Algae for food and nutrition supplements seems the best way to me.

How do you think planet earth became inhabitable? You need to do some more research...

Let's see... In the beginning God?... What are you suggesting I do some more research about?

So you repeated what I said. How does that change the facts? CO2 is NOT sequestered unless it's permanently accounted for. We don't catch and release, we catch and keep, that is the whole point of the fact that algae could help us clean our atmosphere, not recycle it.

I have heard arguments touting the carbon neutral benefit of using algae as a fuel source (or any bio-fuel for that matter). But, I think it's wrong to tout algae as a way to significantly reduce the current levels of CO2 in the environment.

You should know that the reality of gas hitting 6, 7, even 8 dollars per gallon is not only real, it's inevitable. Tell me how profitable algae fuel is when it's competing with those prices.

As the price of oil and gas rises any alternative fuel source (including algae) will be more competitive not less.

Any matter that is not oil is a contaminant, some of which is sequestered CO2. What you propose would release the CO2 back into the environment during processing or during the combustion process thereby making the whole CO2 point moot.

It doesn't matter that the CO2 is released. It was sequestered as the algae grew. So, the process is carbon neutral. Grow --> Release --> Grow --> Release, etc etc. The CO2 is constantly being recycled.

The current problem we have with CO2 is that it took millions of years to sequester it in fossil fuels and we are releasing it in dozens of years.

I am not being negative, I was answering your question.

You were answering a question for another poster.

I missed any of your previous questions, I dont check on BEHL too often because I feel like everytime I do it is the same arguments and questions.

There is probably too much traffic here so this medium may not work for everyone. I mistakenly assumed that most people read almost all of the posts. It makes more sense now that I know that is not the case.

Anyway, I'll probably just mostly lurk. It's kind of depressing to think you may have something worthwhile to contribute but most people are not going to read it anyway because you are new.

Just to be clear - I'm long, I like this technology and I want BEHL to be successful.

People are tired of answering the same circular barage of BEHL questions that they have been asked for the past few months.

Fair enough. Whatever the reason/s may be this board is downright hostile to any new investor or potential investor that comes here to ask a question that the "old timers" interpret as criticism of BEHL. My first post here was to try and and be helpful and answer a general question for Lonsenior about how dilution and reverse splits work together. Then 4 different posters jump on me assuming I'm claiming BEHL is going to do a reverse split and bossman decides to pass judgement and tell everyone to put me on ignore. Even after following up with a clarification I get no acknowledgment from anyone about the misunderstanding. Some here say they want new blood to invest in BEHL... well it's a very negative place right now for anyone new.

It certainly isn't here to refute everyone's negative claims. Do your own DD. Let us know what you come up with

I've done my own DD and I've drawn my own conclusions and I've formed my exit strategy. Based on the treatment I've already received and the treatment that any new investor in BEHL gets here that wants to discuss legitimate questions in a rational fashion, I'm fairly disinclined to share anything. Not to worry, if we do manage to get another run above a nickel your tight little cheerleader club will become a little more homogeneous again.

That's the most rational thing said here in days.

Its not up to us to refute or otherwise 'answer' their questions. I dont need to justify my personal investments to Greedy, Eco or anyone else for that matter. What makes you think it is the onus of iHubbers to answer anyone's questions?

Then what do you consider the purpose of these discussion boards to be? I would also like to see some rational discussion of the legitimate questions raised by Ecomike. Don't want to type it out? Just point to a link then.

told ya it would be a good day didn't I you guys :)

Actually you did not. You told us there would be a PR today and that didn't happen either. There was some news today from MarketWire but no PR from the company.

That is what we need to be holding out for, that and a major player putting some money in the pot for R&D. Once the heavy hitters are backing the research that means there is reason to assume a solution is just around the corner........... and by solution I mean more money than you can dream of.

Meanwhile, I'd be exceedingly happy with just a statement that we have sold some PBRs for X amount and have potential sales of X amount on the way.

Isn't these guys that own the IP for the lipid trigger (if it exists): http://sustainablegreentechnologies.com/

We would be in the position of having to license it from them, right?

sensitive, yes

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People are very sensitive today.
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Yes. That is what happens when you are down 20 percent over 3 days.

If I were in this at sub penny, I too would be coasting along with no worries. But, for those of us in at a nickel and above... well, yes we are becoming concerned. Mind you, I know the risks... could lose it all here and not worry about eating and paying bills... however, the last 2 weeks have been hard.

one mans trash is another mans treasure pal

Did you miss the part about me being long on this? I was hoping for a little more insight from someone who has put more at risk on this than I have.

It's ok... I read the financial report for myself now and I'm working through the rest of the Ibox information. I can come up with my own conclusions but was looking for some logical formulation for the current price per share. My suspicion is that most people here are operating on hope and a dream.

my own threshold for BEHL to valued at today is probably .05 to .055

Fair enough... that would put me back in the green when it gets there.

Off to find and review that financial report...

ok then, how does that translate into a price per share number? what is your fair value number?

Quinn, so you think the 3s are a good deal. Without revenue and earning per share numbers how do you decide what the "right" number is for a stock? I'm not bashing here, this is an honest question. I have 500k shares and tried to pick up 200K more today at .033 (doesn't look like I'll get them) and I think you have considerably more shares than I do. How do you value a stock/company in this stage of development?

my motivation too

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If Behl is telling the truth, that a 1acre pbr can be purchased for under $100k, then perhaps one day in the not-too-distant future, millions of algae farms will exist all over the planet in desolate lands where nothing else can be grown. All this algae could be providing bio-fuel, and helping to end world hunger while at the same time removing tons of CO2 from the environment. I would seriously consider starting an algae farm myself if BEHL turns out to be a real deal.
-----------

Like you, I'd really like to own and run one of these PBRs if it's actually economically possible to do so. If you listen to the interview with Dennis (and I recommend everyone who owns shares or is thinking about it should) you'll learn that he doesn't really like the fuel part. He thinks the food and health supplement angle is more interesting right now. Also, this doesn't really remove CO2 from the environment. More accurately, it recycles the CO2. As long as we are burning massive amounts of fossil fuel we are going to have a CO2 problem - it took millions of years to bind up all that CO2 in oil and coal and it's only taking us dozens of years to release it. A fuel cycle with Algae won't remove any of the CO2 but it will create a carbon neutral bind and release cycle.

Right, averaging down is buying more shares at a cost that is lower than shares you previously purchased so that your total average cost per share is lower.

Flipping your position doesn't gain you anything except a loss (in my current case) or a gain (short term with a big tax hit).

If the gain is large enough some traders will sell enough of their position to recover the initial cost of the investment. They now have so called "free shares". Doing this can lower your stress level but it also greatly lowers your potential gains. Everyone has to find the balance that is right for them.

averaging down

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Well, I hope BEHL's PPS does not go any lower...or perhaps I should have average down!? Hahaha.
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Averaging down is a very reasonable strategy if you are optimistic about the future of the stock. I have averaged down once already and will consider doing it again if we go into the 3s. Just don't do it with money you can't afford to lose (well, that goes for any money you put into a penny stock - they are almost always high risk plays).

fair price?

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Mav! Firstly, what price did you buy at? I hope you got an early postion. Secondly, this company is in it's embroyonic
stage and its all about time. Thirdly, this is a bargain at the price, the only thing that will pay dividends will be patience! IMO
----------------

Without revenue streams and earnings, how do you determine what the "right" price should be for a stock? I'm genuinely curious about this from you and other posters. I like this technology and I like the idea of doing something good for the planet and making money at the same time. I just jumped in at .0475 have been down since the day after I bought it. I'm fairly patient but also curious to know how someone decides what the right price should be in a stock like this. I'll be honest and tell you I came for the hype surrounding this as "green play". Obviously we all want it to be higher then what we paid for it. Can anyone show me some logic and math that calculates your "right" number?

FTDs

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Thank you el_loco for your insightful and hilarious link.
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Your welcome! I hoped it would tickle Johnny's rib cage... or at least someone's...

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Two things, first I was looking for a quick basic answer on whether it's something to be concerned about really, which I thought was the point of a bulletin board.
Second, what exactly is a "google"?
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Ahhhh, whether an FTD is something to be concerned about? That seems to be a different question then the one you actually asked. Anyway, the short answer is No, they can happen for a variety of legitimate reasons. The longer answer is Maybe, if a large number of short sellers have managed to convince some brokerage house to short a large amount of the stock for them without actually borrowing the shares from anyone (this is called a naked short). I tend to consider this a very rare thing and am not generally predisposed to believe naked shorting is occurring to a particular stock without copious amounts of evidence.

As to your second question a google is either a very large number or the transformation of the trademarked name of a very popular Internet search engine into a verb thus creating a slang term for doing an Internet search and eroding the trademark. This is a relatively common occurrence in North American pop culture.

FTDs

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=failure+to+deliver

growing your own fuel

I went to this link:

http://biocentricalgae.com/About_Us.html

and found this:

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NEW POWERPOINT PRESENTATION
Send your request for your opportunity to review the Presentation on "Cost and Revenue of Algae Farming in America" delivered by
Mr. Fisher at the National Algae Forum in Houston on May 1st, 2009
send request to... NAA@BioCentricEnergy.com
----------------

I sent my request to the given email address but it bounced back to me as undeliverable. Does anyone have correct contact information for acquiring this report?

Yes, I should have been more clear in my reply. I am not suggesting that a reverse split will happen here. I was just trying to answer a question about how dilution works with respect to reverse splits.

I am long on BHEL at the moment with 400K shares.

I was answering a general question about reverse splits. I have no reason to believe that BHEL management is contemplating one.

The dilution comes before the revese split. Then is "fixed" by the reverse split for the next round of dilution.

heh, "can't lose"

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One more "BTW": This second go-around for me has been financed 100% with house money. Probably some naked short money as well. I have already won, and can't lose. I expect to win even more within the next few months.
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If SPNG doesn't pan out like you hope and it sails down to a penny or less... you have to admit that it's possible the OS count is much larger than anyone is currently thinking...

anyway, if it doesn't go the way you say, I'm pretty sure you will feel the loss (even though it is "house money")... I would...

damn... I think my friends are screwed on this one

http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/judgments/2009/09/29/spongetech-all-wet?page=0,0

What a story... the guy even goes to see Metter in person. I have two friends that I recommended this to and they would not sell when I told them to sell. I managed to get out with a very small profit after holding it for months and completely buying into the "next new thing". I need to add this to my stock trading rules - do not give trading tips to friends. I have a feeling they are going to lose almost everything they put in on this one.

pennies are risky

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Do you have "rational motivation" for pointing out negative things? Hell, yes, you do. I don't believe I (nor a number of others) would be reacting any differently than you are if things had fallen for me the way they did for you......anyway, thanks for opening some eyes. I would have preferred sending this PM, but cannot.
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Part of it is that I'm also upset with myself for breaking some of my own investing rules. One of those rules is to pick exit points (both above and below) your entry point and sell at those exit points (unless the stock pays a dividend). If the stock pays a dividend then the rule is relaxed some. If the stock is a risky penny play then sticking to the rule is a must.

I moved my exit point for spng 3 times before the RS announcement and started dreaming of an exit point at $2 to 2.5 wherein I could quit my day job. It was all logical - outstanding sales, OS being brought down with company buyback, a move to Nasdaq, etc etc. I kept forgetting that this was a risky penny. I wanted to believe otherwise and put more weight on what I wanted to hear and less weight on "red flags". Some people call this "falling in love with a stock". That is as good a description for it as any I suppose.

I think I'm more upset with my dream being crushed than with the loss of the paper profits. It seemed very real for quite some time. Anyway, I truly hope it does come to pass for everyone who sweats out all this uncertainty. I'd like to believe that it can happen. That the common retail investor can sometimes spot something with tremendous potential and ride it "to da moon". Regardless, you have better odds here than playing the lottery.

Meanwhile, I'm going back to my rules and just "grind it out" slowly and surely.

language

Ok, lets go with the first definition:

Opinion - a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"; "I am not of your persuasion"; "what are ...

People have "personal beliefs" that are wrong all the time. I offered you some evidence that your opinion about having to have skin in game to post something negative is incorrect.

Do you agree that spng will trade above 20 cents tomorrow? No? Well then, that's a wrong opinion now isn't it.

also wrong

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My opinion is just that, and it cannot be anything other than 100% correct. I did state that it was my opinion, right? Whether you choose to agree with it is another subject.
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A complete logical fallacy. Your opinion being wrong is no different than the poster who has the opinion that the stock will trade north of 20 cents by tomorrow. That is also an opinion and also will be wrong.

motivations

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I'm just interpreting his post in light of his latest actions. IMO, one has to have skin in the game to be critical. Otherwise, motives can reasonably be interpreted as questionable. That's all.
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Well, your opinion about having "skin in the game" to be critical is not correct. I bought the spng dream. I had skin in the game and defended the company for quite some time. Now, I'm out but thought getting in after the RS might be a good idea... that's out now. Anyway, my point is that people come here and read posts and develop an attachment to the community and the stock. In my case, the announcement of the RS eroded all of my paper profits in 2 days. I had held the stock and defended the company for months. Not knowing the true OS was the last straw for me. Since then, I have been critical of factual things (like what the hell is the OS number and why won't you tell us?).

I'm still bitter about watching 47K in paper profits evaporate over 2 days after watching momentum build for months before the RS announcement. I don't mind you knowing it. It's a rational motivation for pointing out negative things.

dear management

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SpongeTech® Delivery Systems Announces Release of Letter to Shareholders to Update Investors on Company Achievements and Strategy 09/22 12:36 PM
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Dear Spng Management,

Thank you for the double plus feel good words and nice re-telling of all the things you have previously told us.

However, what we would really like to know is the current share count for outstanding shares. Many of us think that is a really important number and by not telling us the number we remain concerned. In fact, the more paranoid of us think you may even be hiding something.

Best regards,

A Disgruntled Shareholder

who knows

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Post R/S this will lose easy 50% of its value in one day. Normal after a R/S.
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Who really knows what will happen? No one here has a good answer for why the price moved up last Friday. The longs are happy it did but were caught by surprise just as the non-longs were.

This RS was pre announced which is not typical. It could be that the impact of the RS is already factored into the price. I don't think it will drop 50 percent. I'm trying to learn something from this stock but I'm not sure if it's possible. It moves in odd ways and you can not rule out manipulation.

the info will flow

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This board and others like is nothing more than a barometer of market sentiment which can, has been, and will be used against you.
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I'm not sure I buy the argument that the shareprice has been manipulated with "stringent control".

The way I see it we were clicking along pretty good - share price around .20 and everyone waiting for a great 10K to verify the share structure and verify that we have a real product with real sales that are increasing and a decent profit margin. If we had gotten the 10K on time and it said what we were all expecting then the shareprice would have moved higher towards it's true valuation (which at the time I believed to be somewhere around $1). Then, maybe you do a 15 to 25 reverse split with your rational to go to nasdaq. Most people (including myself) would have found that reasonable.

As it stands now we have an unreasonable RS looming, a late 10K and no clarity about the OS share structure. We have tremendous uncertainty and management is clearly to blame for this.

I was a faithful long with 600K shares looking to move to the nasdaq "the right way". Management has turned me into a bitter speculative trader looking to profit from an RS bounce. I fell in love with this stock and got burned. So, now it's trading fodder.

not short

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You playing this short?
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no, but I am hoping for a very cheap entry point after the RS to try and recoup some of the paper profits lost because of the RS

time to get real

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TIME TO WAKE UP
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What you say makes sense but

you need to look up the definition of "futile" as in a "futile plea to the unwashed masses"

and besides, the board would become incredibly dull and disappear if everyone does as you ask