Replies to post #103124 on Plastic2Oil Inc (PTOI)

[jimmenknee]

Yes, thank you-- exactly :-)

To make the quality fuel that JBI produces, they have to limit the feedstock to the range of polymer chemistries that will result in that output.

Agilyx doesn't have that restriction and has a process that removes contaminants. They don't appear to worry about having the output not of a higher quality.

[Scandle34]

it still is not clear to me that the process cannot handle the other plastics. What is clear is that their permit is restricted to those inputs. IE, without HCl collection they cannot take PVC. Without SOx collection, no sulfonates, etc...

With additional scrubbers and new permits, they could take the other plastics from what I have understood so far. Of course it might then be a $2M machine...

[Justice37]

GARBAGE IN-GARBAGE OUT.

That is the key thing to remember about both processes. Unlike some false claims posted by others, it seems both processors can take any form of plastic. However, they have to be treated because you cannot turn non-hydro-carbons into fuel, period. For example, PVC, if it is just thrown into the Agilyx processor something needs to be done with the hydrochloric acid that remains after the hydrocarbons are removed by pyrolysis, it seems part of it is burned away and dealt with scrubbers and filters and possibly some really scary solid waste, all of which needs to be cleaned out after the fact. JBI can and will use PVC, in areas other than New York State, by "treating" but they do it before it enters the reactor. JBI does a pre-treatment where the hydrocarbons and hydrochloric acid are separated, the hydrocarbons would enter the reactor, the hydrochloric acid would be stored and later sent to Pak-It who have use for it.

Note: I would put good money on the fact that the NY DEC would not allow Agilyx to process PVC for the same reasons it doesn't allow JBI, has everything to do with Love Canal but that is another post.

When it comes to PET, no way Agilyx just chucks it into the reactor if it is a batch that has value for recycling, has more value for recyclers at 30 cents a pound than it would have as fuel, plus those who recycle the plastic would get all political on them. Again, garbage in, garbage out, pyrolysis turns the oxygen in the PET into carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide, it does not turn into fuel. JBI can again pre-treat this but to be honest I don't know what the acids created are but they, like hydrochloric acid, have value on their own. I understand that JBI can process PET that is headed for landfill (loads of PET are easily ruined, one PVC bottle or a piece of pizza in the batch ruins a 10,000 bottle load of feedstock) and they can as it meets the DEC order as long as it is waste plastic headed for landfill. An example would be mixed ground plastic, can't be separated and the various plastics can't be identified visually. If PET or other plastics sneak through in the JBI system, and they will, they have measures to deal with them that do not include scrubbers and air filters and no they are not released through the stack. An advantage of the JBI system is that they do not have to shut the processor down to clean it out now.

The bottom line is what can't be turned into fuel becomes waste, period. Here is the link to Waste Management Inc. that explains how easy it is to ruin a load of plastic for recycling and the paper that discusses what happens to PET and other chemicals in pyrolysis.
http://www.thinkgreen.com/recycle-what-detail?sec=plastics&prod=learn-more&tab=where_can_i_recycle

http://icee2008hungary.net/download/fullp/full_papers/full_paper245.pdf