I respect your opinions as well, we've disagreed before and probably will again. I will quarrel not that Fred has been calm and clear in his expectations. My quarrel is that his expectations are unreasonable. Joe is not being asked merely to be civil, but to turn aside from all possible confrontations. Were this restriction to be placed on either of us...neither of our posts on this topic would be acceptable.
Barring a programmatic solution to this issue (User Select Block)...Joe needs to choose someone he actually respects to "help" him reach his potential, and then follow the advice he gets from that person. He cannot be forced to accept advice from anyone, he must *want* it. IMHO, the act of selecting and publicly announcing whom he would trust and respect enough to be his mentor would be enough reason for me to let him out of jail were it in my power to do so. However, I would also consider the importance of the mentor's position. This person should have the power to give the final vote on Joe's permanent termination.
<IMO he has made every effort to help Joe and be very calm and clear about what is expected of him in the way of behavior change.
Yep, and therein lies the problem that BOP and I, among others have been trying to express. BOP gathered his thoughts a bit faster and expressed them eloquently.#msg-518756 I agree with him.
Trying to change someone's behavior indicates to them that they are considered lacking in some characteristic that is required for acceptance by the person attempting to influence the change. Most men and women with self respect have a certain resentment toward folks that make those behavioral suggestions.
I can only speak for me ~ I'm accepting of help so long as I request it ~ If I don't request it ~ not only do I not want it, I resent the implication that I need it. I'm even more resentful of bystanders, with no involvement in my personal affairs, who feel they must assist or intervene. Maybe it's a throwback thing, maybe it's a Wild West thing, who knows. But in some cultures, yes, even here in America, people who intrude in others' affairs sometimes die early.
I commend Joe for his patience in dealing with a group of people who think themselves his superior. I am astonished he hasn't blasted the whole group, packed up his stock insights, and gone elsewhere.
Fred's a nice guy. We agree on some things, and disagree on others. I, personally, think he's outta' bounds here but that counts for little. I also have a lot of respect for Matt and what he has accomplished in his few years, but I think his attitude toward Joe needs some work.
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