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Point taken. I was oversimplifying while trying to make a point.
I’m interested to see what Evolve does for the bottom line over the second half of the year. Not really too concerned about the trash business. As long as they are still profitable, it’s fine. I don’t think a lot of people here are here because they see the trash business as the future of the company.
The S2 does look exactly the same - so much so that I emailed Umidigi 2 weeks ago and they told me they have no involvement with Utopya/ANDI. They even agreed that the phone looks just like theirs.
In all fairness - she could have meant there’s a lot in the system that used to be active and now is not available/discontinued. Plenty of forgotten SKUs would fall under that category I would assume.
Hmmmm...I would have picked Coastal Flats as a rendezvous. Grouper Fingers are amazing....and they’re open early.
Tyson’s Corner mall is closed?
So....I’m just trying think like a scammer here - if this is a scam and the tweets and LinkedIn posts aren’t doing anything to move the pps - and the HOY was many months ago - why are these guys still tweeting/communicating at all? If they still have shares to dump - what are they waiting for? Wring the last bit of cash outta this pig and move on to the next scam....right?
Not saying that their communication
hasn’t been a clown show for the last few months. I’m just trying to logically understand what they are waiting for if this is a scam.
Ok. Just trying to clarify.
Again, VC argument may be a valid one. Or they could have struck some sort of ernest money agreement with the supplier, who knows (we do that all the time with ours in the auto industry - virtually nothing is ever paid in full up front).
The previous argument about commercial failure due to contracting with a supplier has no basis in fact (and is in fact the opposite of the truth). I’m just trying to separate the arguments here.
“Never” is a sounds pretty ironclad to me. What if they already had the orders for the phones? You have to defend your “never” statement.
But that’s all beside the point that you are now making a different argument than your previous non sequitur of “if they rebrand an existing phone it proves it’s a scam because otc beverage companies do this.”
That may be true, but not based on the argument he was making.
Please explain why “there can never be commercial success” when many many real companies do this?
Honestly, there are legitimate critiques you can make on a lot of things here, but on this point you’re wrong.
This is what was expected though. Partnership with an existing phone supplier. Again, these phones are going to be marketed in multiple places under the Utopya name and software with a unique price point from the umidigi product making them a unique user experience. May not even be sold in the same markets as the umidigi product. Auto industry does this all the time. Exhibit A - Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix. Both sold in the same market even. Was that a scam? No - it was good business/marketing looking for synergies.
If I would complain about anything here, it’s that Utopya needs more transparency and they need a shock and awe introduction of both the hardware, the software, the distribution, launch dates, and the people involved. I think they thought they could wing some of this PR stuff and may be they’re victims of their own popularity, but they need a visible vocal spokesperson to come out and give a formal introduction. They missed a massive momentum opportunity to do so 2 months ago.
They certainly claim to own them in every PR (wholly owned subsidiary).
I would think that it’s a pretty serious problem if those are false statements. The name in Wyoming was changed as well. Tough to say what the agreements are structured like though.
I’d say it settles a lot of questions in the best of all possible ways. Smaller phone manufacturer unknown to the western markets with impressive content and a great price. This proves that the hardware is real! Now we want to see the software!
Jeez man. So should everyone sue GM because they sold a Pontiac to everyone that was really a Toyota?
Should the SEC shut down Apple because my IPhone has a bunch if Samsung and LG content and is made by Foxconn and not Apple?
These arguments are becoming ridiculous.
If they had released a phone that they designed, engineered and manufactured themselves - you’d be saying “what a scam - they have no experience in making phones...blah blah blah”
They didn’t represent it as “purely theirs”. Mike said they were a software company masquerading as a hardware company. This confirms that. Umidigi would be no different than LG who makes components for everyone but sells their own brand of phone in select markets. This is a slam dunk IMO.
I don’t think they will want to play that up because they want to market it with their software and UX - as many have previously stated.
It’s like GM not playing up the fact that their small truck architectures were all developed by Isuzu.
I love it. Now that we have a phone - it’s going to be “but the distributors don’t exist!”
If the video of the phone is to be believed, Yes. And frankly - they would have had a much easier time getting less obscure data from somewhere else as it is easily available. 3D Data for this company would only come from the manufacturer. I suppose they could have someone build a model of it - but that ain’t cheap!
Umidigi
Huh? So now that they have a phone supplier they’re suddenly “ripping them off”? Utopya isn’t in the phone manufacturing business. Again - their IP will be the UX/software. To me this confers massive legitimacy to the stated business plan.
Yes, I thought someone might bring this up. I do a lot of digital animations and the first place I went was turbosquid to see if they had a matching phone 3D model for sale that a scammer could buy for 50 bucks. They have Huaweis, Samsungs and many other phone files available for purchase. If these guys are scamming - they obviously aren’t good at it. The Obscure Umidigi S2 Lite isn’t there. It’s probably quite hard to get their data from anywhere other than the manufacturer.
I appreciate his DD because there is valuable info there. And his connecting of dots may be correct but it may not be either. There is a lot of conjecture in those conclusions that I don’t think you can jump to without assuming malicious intent - which I don’t think anyone can really prove at this point. If I were looking at previously failed ventures I would first blame management missteps or incompetence or the learning curve before I jump to malice.
Besides that, none of those things has anything to do with the fact that they just showed us a phone that seems to fit all the criteria for the business model they have been making claims to. I fail to see the “scammy” aspect in this regard specifically.
Why exactly is that “scammy”? Even if all that were true you assume that because they failed once they’re not allowed to try again? And because they use a phone already in existence to put their software on that’s somehow “scammy” as well? We do this in the auto industry all the time (platform sharing, re-branding etc). It’s smart business.
Nice work! I was looking around on turbosquid for 45 minutes comparing phones and this was not on there.
Wow. It’s like an epic Greek comedy/tragedy on this board today! Shaksperian!
That’s what I’ve been quietly hoping for. Would be cool if DLT labs is involved in a blockchain phone ecosystem - aka Utopya.
He’ll be back in this afternoon, singing it’s praises.
For all we know the Utopya phone could be a Samsung. Seems like a good chunk of the IPhone is!
http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-companies-that-make-the-iphone-2012-5
Probably should have used a different term. I was using it more in a layman’s application to the general idea that hardware getting exponentially faster/better and that improving the software - as you stated - is where the value is.
I’m really hoping for a software demo as well.
I guess what I’m saying is that any android based smartphone manufacturer could be used to leverage Utopya software. There are plenty of them out there. What will make the Utopya phone a Utopya phone will be the software, not the hardware.
True, Apple is a big player and throws their weight around to leverage massive economies of scale.
They have the capability to do in house design and source components as they see fit - but - Their primary value is still in their software/UX design. How else do you think they can charge upwards of a grand for what often amounts to less actual pure hardware content than other phones? Sure they control the design and manufacturing aspects of their phones more than other pure software/UX companies (google/android) but Apple has a thing for wholistic product design so they are a bit more vertically integrated in that respect. That’s why every Apple product says it’s “Designed in California” - nobody cares where or who manufactures it. And in the end, they use all of the same suppliers that everyone else does.
Apple uses Foxconn to make their phones. The value in an Apple phone is the user interface/software - the hardware isn’t nearly as valuable because Moore’s law will make it obsolete in a year. My point is - Apple uses the same supply base to make their phone hardware as everybody else.
I don’t even think UTOPYA is worried about the hardware intellectual property. They aren’t interested in being in the “phone manufacturing” business any more than Apple is. There’s probably a thousand companies from here to Timbuktu who will make you a smart phone and will assume the IP risk for hardware. And even then they have to purchase components from chip suppliers and screen suppliers etc who all make components for multiple manufacturers and who themselves are insulated from IP issues due to the nature of the supply chain. Utopya is a software company. That’s where the potential value lies.
Great point! Why would they develop an all new piece of hardware when they could buy it ready-made from one of the big manufacturers and leverage existing economies of scale?
If it were me I’d find a relatively cheap set of phones from a known mass manufacturer (Huawei perhaps?) - give them my performance/cost specs and proceed to commit all of my focus on making my own proprietary software that would be the real value adding component - which sounds exactly like what they are doing. I think this is a software play primarily - judging from the players involved.
Agree with your analysis completely. I think we see a dip in the morning and maybe not a rip but a steady tip-toe build in the afternoon. Kind of an inverse of today.
Lots of flippers. Every time this stock goes down significantly we pick them up in huge numbers as this is now one of the highest profile stocks on the OTC with lots of opportunistic eyes waiting for quick entry and exit. It’s like trying to keep fleas off a stray dog. Gonna need a few big days to shake them all off again.
1 year. And it’s 15% on income less than 470K (married filing jointly I believe) and 20% on anything over that.