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Any day now...
This time is different...
Paul will never let us down...
Soon to the moon...
Negotiations with strategic partners...
Joint venture...
Before year end...
This spring, weather permitting...
huge public and media interest...
China...
Philippines...
M400...
M600...
Neuera...
Moller should contact...
Moller millionaires...where are you????
I see MI/FM published a newsletter. Why they do this, I don't know. It looks like they only have about two fans left.
Something that makes me laugh time and time and time again is statements they make like the following: "Many battery-powered Personal Air Vehicles (PAV) have been developed; however, none has proven that they can fly over 50 miles at over 100 mph. or land at a curb, which is essential for general usage."
1) Moller's vehicles, or engines for that matter, has also not proven they can do this. Moller, you hovered your vehicle around for a couple of minutes.
2) Land at a curb...um...most of the eVTOL developments are significantly smaller than Moller's latest 'designs', so I don't know what they base this BS on.
One thing that Moller CAN do is come up with excuses. Yes, their lack of progress now can be filed under the COVID-19 pandemic, but really, throwing in a dash of 'protest action' is a bit much. Just like when they blamed the 'regime change' in China for the fact that their $480 mil deal fell through. Yet, other companies (like the now dead Martin Jetpack) managed to secure Chinese funding in that same time.
There is only one thing to to Moller and that is to shut up and fade away. I would have said fade away with dignity, but this company has no dignity left.
Talking about "stealing" Moller's ideas...
I just saw an article...
"Chinese passenger drone manufacturer EHang has officially entered into a partnership with Shenzhen tourism company LN Holdings to create the world’s first ‘UAM themed’ hotel."
Sound familiar?
Well...to be fair...Moller's plan was to build not one, but two 5 star hotels in China...
It must be sad for the old man to see his dreams made true by other people...
Here's a link to the article...complete with a video of journalists taking actual rides in an actual vehicle that is not tethered to a crane...
https://transportup.com/headlines-breaking-news/vehicles-manufactures/ehang-will-build-the-worlds-first-uam-hotel-in-collaboration-with/
I have noticed the shift to Cargo drones as opposed to passenger carrying VTOL aircraft.
It is sad. Unfortunately with the Covid-19 pandemic and the effect it is having on the global economy I cannot see much investment going into eVTOL 'flying cars' in the near future.
I do understand that some breakthroughs in battery technology is necessary for eVTOL aircraft to become really viable, but people are on the right track.
For many years I also realized that Rotary engines are also not the answer, though...
I just read an article, of which I will put a link below, about Ed De Reyes' EVTOL aircraft. The article references Moller. It is a very badly written article with many inaccuracies regarding VTOL, like claiming "In the early 2000s, the Moller International Skycar became the first non-helicopter vertical takeoff and landing aircraft to actually get off the ground". The author probably never heard of the Osprey, the Harrier or any of the many experimental VTOL's like the X-22.
Anyway. it seems like Ed De Reyes, Moller's former test pilot now has his own company that aims to get into the electric VTOL market. Any Moller fanboys want to comment on this?
It must be hard for you guys. Ed gave Moller a bit of credibility a couple of years ago, so you guys were quite taken with him. Now that he has committed to an electric aircraft, the one thing that fanboys unanimously bash, it must be quite a shock...
Ahhhh...old Ed. He invited me to Moller's one failed 'test flight' as his guest and the un-invited me after giving a fanboy a hard time. Good times. And I'm yet to be proven wrong. Randy will probably delete my post again...because anybody whose view is not Randy's view is labelled a troll....
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2020/04/flying-car-future-looks-flying-cars-past/164995/
flaflyersfan, obviously you didn't read my entire post.
Obviously you didn't read any of my previous posts.
I am well aware of Moller's stock situation.
I myself used the spike in share price during the 2012 "$480 million China Deal" craze to offload my stock. The price went up enough for me to sell my shares and break even. Unlike other fanboy stockholders, who call themselves "Moller Millionaires", I never purchased stock with the vision of becoming a rich man off it. I owned a handful of shares just because I wanted to be part of something I believed in. Even if I held on to my shares it would not have hurt me in this situation, like others.
I still believe in the dream, I just don't believe that Paul Moller will be the one at the forefront of achieving that dream.
As I described in my post, the fiasco with the 2011 "Public Testflight", otherwise known as the "Porta potty event", was my final turning point from being a Moller fan, although doubt had started setting in many years ago.
My post was merely me pondering whether Paul Moller would live to see his dream of "going to school in a VTOL" be realized, albeit by someone else and not himself.
Last night I couldn't sleep. Due to COVID-19, the daily news on 'flying cars' all but stopped completely. I decided to scratch in the archives of flying car news and I came upon the 1991 Popular Mechanics cover story on the Moller Skycar. About 30 years ago, that article changed my life.
In 1991 I was 12 years old. At 12 you truly believed everything you read in the media. Since I can remember I had been fascinate by everything flying. My parents took me to every airshow close by. My dream, since about the age of 3 was to become a pilot. More specific, a fighter pilot.
In 1989 a movie called "Robot Jox" was released. I watched the movie with my mother. In this movie the protagonist owns a flying car. This was my very first introduction to the concept of a personal flying vehicle that can be used on a daily basis that doesn't require a runway. When the hero of the film used his flying car to travel home after retiring from piloting a huge fighting robot, my mother spoke these words "One day, when you are an adult, there really will be flying cars." Her words stuck in my head.
Two years later I came upon the Moller article. I was completely blown away. The article opens with a glimpse into the future where a man in 1999 gets into his Moller Skycar, starts it up (with the two on-board computers checking the engines), pulls it out of the garage and from his driveway the Skycar lifts of 'silently' and after 'hover checks' the man zips off to work...
I did the math. By 1999 I would be 20. I would be an adult, so what was going to stop me from owning that beautiful machine? My future was set. Just like the guy in 'Robot Jox' I would come home from a day of piloting fighter jets (where he piloted giant robots) and land my bright red Skycar in my driveway.
I cut the article out of the magazine, put it in a plastic sleeve and re-read it about a thousand times. I kept it with my other 'treasures', the place where I kept my most prized toys. When I was 14 we went on vacation and our house was burgled. The only thing that they left in the house was a broken TV. My article was gone.
Also some time later I read a DC Comics "Starman" comic and at the close of the story the superhero is offered a lift in a "Moller Skycar". In my mind it told me that Skycars was on everybody's minds.
I never forgot about Moller, his Skycar and his promise.
In my late teens I even found the Skycar in books in the Library. By then doubt started creeping into my mind. I was nearing 20 and nobody owned a Skycar.
Still, I didn't forget.
In the mid 2000's I gained access to the internet. Honest to suzie, one of the first things I googled was "Moller Skycar" and lo and behold, there was a website! Paul Moller was still working on it!
Unfortunately the website was not the only thing that was on the internet about the Skycar. There where many articles on Paul Moller. Some good, but many where bad. Critical. They were calling him a crook. A snake oil salesman. He had cheated his stockholders out of a lot of money by making misleading statements. I got angry. Not at Moller, but at the media trying to destroy this man's dream.
I found blog's and message boards. I found other people equally enthusiastic about this dream as me. There where a few people on this blog critical of Moller. I hated them. Why rain on my parade? Why rain on Moller's parade? But, alas, some of them made sense. I ignored them. Why listen to their poison?
Then came 2011. In October the Skycar would fly at last in front of the media. Like other fanboys (some where real estate millionaires and some had MBA's, how could I not be in good company?), I grabbed my pom-pom's and cheered. But, as the date of the demonstration flight neared I started noticing how the company handled the situation. Their own posts went from 'It is definitely going to happen', to 'We are positive it is going to happen, to 'Get off our backs! This is not as easy as it looks!' to complete silence by the end.
And that was my watershed moment.
Since then Paul Moller has declared that he was always overly optimistic.
Last night I also looked at his TED talk, his one lecture at his old University (I think), a lunch that was taped with him and 'Mr Future' and I cannot help but feel sorry for him.
If the 'hummingbird' story is to be believed, them he has had his dream of personal VTOL flight for nearly 80 years. 80 years. As someone who has had to let go of dreams I can only think how he must feel.
Unlike me, he has worked very hard to realize those dreams, but now, his own dream of bringing a 'Volantor' to market must feel as far away as ever. There is no money to continue his work. The prospects of Freedom Motors, in my own opinion, is all talk and no cash.
But, listening to his TED talk, his lectures and interviews one must confess that his vision of the future of personal transportation is almost exactly the same as the one that Uber and the likes are professing now. The only differences being that Moller always had the idea of individuals owning Skycars, where the current train of thought is hailing these vehicles like taxis as opposed to owning one.
Paul Moller is turning 84 this year. I know he is working very hard on 'life extension' for himself. I know his Skycar will never fly, but my hope for him is to see people traveling from 'vertiports' in VTOL aircraft before he passes on.
On another note, all these EVTOL aircraft are cool, but none still look as good as the M400 Skycar. Especially the one often referred to as the "Merlin".
Those were good times.
Go back in time until before trading was suspended, sell them.
Alternatively...
Go back in time, slap the younger you silly for ever thinking that buying this stock was a good idea.
I offloaded my stock years ago. 2012, I think. I used the little spike in the price after the $480 mil "China deal" was announced to sell off all my shares. I managed to break even.
Anybody remember that deal? You know, the one that included not one, but two 5 star hotels...the one where all the fanboys again said "But this time is different!".
Why don't the Facebook page posters refer to themselves as the "Moller millionaires" anymore?
My comments on the newsletter:
- "we prototyped a 54cc compound engine that is projected to produce 10
hp on methanol and is the size of a grapefruit." - The key word in this
sentence is "projected", again with the projections, never with results
of testing.
- "The reason for this prototype is to cater the overwhelming demand for small engines of this class in the Asia Pacific markets (APAC). Our partners who represent us in APAC has indicated through their market research that the demand for this class of engine is over 50 million engines per year." - Can we see the so-called market research? What methodology was used? Did it involve the sucking of a thumb? I think we can all agree that any 'market research' coming from the Moller camp in the past involved the sucking of a thumb.
- "More in the technology front, our 150cc engine demonstration model with hydrogen as primary fuel is coming along well." - Ever notice in the last 50 years how they have never said XXX 'is done'? Always busy. Always coming along. Nothing ever gets finished. Ever.
- "We estimate that we have accomplished over 90% of this model and wish to complete the remaining 10% within the next 8 weeks." - Anybody willing to bet that 20 weeks from now it still will not be done?
- "We continue to assist our demonstration partner out of Canada who is in the final preparations for using our 530cc engine with biogas fuel. We hope to put this into operation within the next few weeks." - Again, willing to bet by year end they will say the same.
- "Nevertheless, we will continue to move forward with our prototypes and models planned this year and are determined to mass produce by the end of this year." - Hahahahah! Always good to end a newsletter with humor.
Mr Smith highlighted all the other stuff.
Fanboys are delighted I assume.
Whatever happened to the global currency revaluation loonies? Why don't they mention them anymore?
And all these nameless companies...oh, wait, non-disclosure agreements. On the other hand, they are hocking engines, little grapefruit sized ones, not state secrets.
Don't go jinxing it...
But I think all but the most hardcore fanboys have given up.
I saw on the fanboy facebook page that some fanboy asked for a newsletter. Don't know what 'news' he is looking for and someone asked about the FM blog.
Both Moller International and Freedom Motors have gone dark.
In the past old Jeffy would say they are quiet because there is 'big news pending'...Even the fanboys have now realized that there is never 'big news pending'.
Think about it.
"Will someone take over?"
What is there to take over?
I'm talking Moller International now, not Freedom Motors, but I will get to that.
Contrary to the beliefs the fanboys hold, you have to ask yourself, what does Moller International have that someone would want to take over and continue?
Here is what is needed to make his flying car a reality:
An Air frame. Again, contrary to popular belief, much of what we can see on photos and what was available to see at shareholder meetings at Moller's old facility wasn't air frames meant to fly. They are fiberglass mock-ups of Moller's vision. They are pretty and they were created to leave potential investors in awe so that they are easily departed from their money. Just go to any aviation expo. All manufacturers do that. Any flyable air frame Moller may have is likely to be decades old. Getting it actually airworthy may cost more than just building a new one. Besides, the technology may also be old and newer, safer, lighter, stronger and cheaper materials are out there.
Engines. Ahhh. The engines. In Paul Moller's own words, the engine, and in particular HIS Wankel rotary engine holds the key to his Skycar. Unfortunately Moller has, through all these years, never been able to demonstrate his engines to back up all his claims about it. The last time the Skycar hovered on a teather, unmanned, it was stripped down to the bare minimum so that the engines could lift the air frame. Those engines would never have allowed the Skycar to fly with one, let alone multiple passengers. Moller makes a lot of claims about his engines and all the applications it can be used for, but don't you think he would have sold some by now if it worked? He can't even build, produce and sell a lawnmower engine, let alone one that can power a VTOL aircraft.
A Flight Control System. The flight control system needed to operate a VTOL aircraft is available off the shelf these days. Besides, from previous blog posts and newsletter surrounding Moller International's computer systems it is evident that these things weren't Moller's strong suite.
So, my point is Moller has nothing that can be 'taken over' once he passes. Everything they have doesn't work and is very old. It is like buying a company that's still trying to make beepers in the world of smartphones.
As for Freedom Motors, doesn't anybody see the way they are going about their business is exactly the same as Moller's been doing for all these decades? "We have had a string of successful meetings in India, I 90 days we should..." and the...nothing. All talk and no action.
How fanboys can still believe that "Paul Moller won't let us down" when this is ALL he's been doing for half a century is let his shareholders down is beyond me. How fanboys can say every time "but this time is different" every time when the last time they said it, it turned out not to be different at all also goes beyond me.
I ask again, when he passes, what exactly is there to take over?
When is the next newsletter due? Why would you want that? All it will vaguely say about FM is that 'we are making progress' without any hard evidence that they are...
The only reason I check on this page and on the FB fanboy page every two weeks is to see if Paul Moller is still alive.
Here is my take:
* Nothing about the biogas program at Cape Breton University in Canada that was the subject of so much of their publicity in 2018. - It was probably in the 'lets discuss it' phase when Moller ran with the story already and it never moved past the 'lets discuss' it phase.
* Not a word about the revoking of Moller International's shares. - Denial much?
* Nothing about the strategic partnerships with Stratus Environmental and Alturair (announced December 8, 2018, and then never referred to again). - What I have learned from my years of following Moller's companies is that the term 'strategic partnership' does not mean the same to everyone. In the real term it means a partnership that will benefit both parties. Moller has nothing that can benefit anyone. All he wants is someone to give him money with no guarantee of getting any of it back. He wants grants. Handouts. Every single one of his investors throughout the decades can attest to that...
* No further reference to the "software problem" that eliminated all comments on the blog. - No 'software problem'. Only tried to silence their critics.
* No indication of what benefit (if any, apart from the ability to stay in business) resulted from the $107,000 harvested from the StartEngine crowdfinding in late 2018. - CEO's of non-revenue producing companies also wants to eat...
* No further information about their (revived) partnership with Alife Air Automobiles of Singapore, and no verifiable proof that Alife still even exists. - Lets face it, the average IQ of a Moller fan is low enough to believe this excrement.
Okay, what do they say that they did?
"We have accomplished a lot this year and we will continue to do so next year. We truly believe year 2020 will be the year of continued success and many accomplishments. A summary of accomplishments in 2019 follows…" - They copy and paste this line year after year after year, they just change the date.
Signed MOU’s with many partners and formed incredible partnerships
* No specifics of what was signed with which partners, and MOUs aren't binding in any case. - Another BS line that comes up year after year after year and these never come to anything. Like you said, MOU's, LOI's and IOU's are not contracts. They know it, but the fans probably does not.
Received firm orders for 3.4 million engines
* Is this in addition to the 3.3 million fantasy orders that have been floating around for the last decade, or have they just added 100,000 extra fantasy orders to the pile? - Like you said, fantasy pile. Think they added another 100k for the 'wow' factor. Or they wanted to compensate for years of inflation. It's been 3.3 million engines for well over a decade now...
Received support from many investors and continue to do so - Yeah, support.They do have support, but no 'financial' support, only 'emotional' support. Go to the FB page, many "Go Moller's" going around.
* I'm sure that there are shareholders left "holding the bag" when Moller International evaporated that would dispute this.
Building a prototype of our 150cc engine to run on Hydrogen fuel
* Oh dear. Changing directions again. What happened to saving the world through biogas? - Moller 101. Change direction often. This way you always seem busy, but always have an excuse why nothing ever gets DONE. Nothing is ever finished. Always tinkering, never selling for well over 50 years now...
If David parted ways with MI/FM, then another reason for "but this time is different" has gone out the window.
On the other hand, the decline in blog posts can also just be due to the lack of anything to report on...although, in the past, Moller would release monthly newsletters full of nothing covered with 'we are making progress' like statements and fanboy investors would be giddy with joy. By now they should know their audience. Baffle them with BS and they are happy as can be.
They did lose a mighty disciple in Jeff. He would keep conversations going for weeks based on the absurd conclusions he made from the newsletter.
Another reason for the lack of blog posts could be that it is perhaps pointless to waste energy on something only three people will read. And of that three people, two, perhaps are critical of the company.
This stock is delisted. Why are you still pumping it?
Well, those who get the newsletter, like me, got a newsletter yesterday.
It mostly talks about the 'exchange of MI shares for FM shares', quite a laughable read.
I mean, a while ago they offer to exchange MI shares for FM shares and now they say that it is not that easy, it will take time (blaming the government, of course) and that people should be patient.
The do, however, say this about FM's progress:
"Very significant developments are occurring within FM, including an agreement to purchase a large block of FM shares concurrent with creating a volume Rotapower® engine production facility in India."
AS USUAL there is no substance to their statement. Just talk, talk, talk. I haven't visited the Facebook fan page for a while, but I am pretty sure that the fanboys are beside themselves with joy.
It's called "Business as usual"
MI/FM - Commits to a date
Fanboys - "Yay! At last."
Realists - "Not gonna happen"
Fanboys - "This time is different!"
**Date of commitment passes**
MI/FM - ......
Realists - "Told you so!"
Fanboys - "They never made a commitment"
MI/FM - Makes new commitment, plus "this is even better! That's why it takes a bit longer"
Fanboys - "Yay! At last."
Realists - "Not gonna happen"
Fanboys - "This time is different"
And so the endless cycle continues as it has for 50 YEARS!
And he makes no sense whatsoever.
"you are mistaken, it was delisted not revoked" - No, sir, you are the one that is mistaken...
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2019/34-87020.pdf
"ORDER MAKING FINDINGS AND
REVOKING REGISTRATION OF
SECURITIES PURSUANT TO
SECTION 12(j) OF THE
SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT
OF 1934 AS TO MOLLER
INTERNATIONAL, INC."
"accordingly, it is hereby ORDERED that:
Pursuant to Section 12(j) of the Exchange Act, the registration of each class of
Respondent’s securities registered pursuant to Exchange Act Section 12 be, and hereby is,
revoked. The revocation is effective as of September 20, 2019"
Please read the official document before making any further arguments in the matter.
"seems FM Is on a roll"?
What exactly gave you this idea?
Because they said so?!?!
Arguably, when Moller announced the "China deals". one could argue that they were "on a roll".
When they announced the "Thorntail" deal one could argue that they were "on a roll".
When FM announced the first "A-life" deal it can be said that they were "on a roll".
What about the ever elusive IPO's of FM over the years that was to be expected "before year end" and so forth? Weren't they 'on a roll' then?
Nah, nah, what am I saying. Of course THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT.
If I still had shares, I would have written them off as a bad investment and walked away.
Your 'loser either way' comment is spot on.
Freedom Motors can bring in new faces with impressive resumes all they want, but the core management style remains the same as it did with Moller International. And look how that turned out. Remember all those impressive resumes from the 'Thorntail' guys? Remember how the fanboys looked at those resumes and said 'this time is different'. Remember? Remember when Ed de Reyes was appointed to be the company test pilot and also liaison with the FAA? Remember? Remember how the fanboys said 'this time is different'?
Resumes mean nothing if the man really holding the steering wheel is heading straight for a brick wall.
In the end Freedom Motors will fail and they will blame 'lack of funding' for their downfall just like Moller did now with the latest newsletter regarding Moller International. Anybody with a brain (unlike fanboys) that does a thorough root cause analysis will see that 'lack of funding' isn't the root cause for Moller International's downfall. The root cause is Paul Moller and his questionable business practices. Not only in obtaining funding, but also utilizing funds.
I stand by my belief that if Moller had chosen one vehicle to bring to market things would have been different. Maybe not successful, but different. Constantly switching tracks on which vehicle you want to develop while you have no income stream is suicide. Business Management 101 stuff.
Moller is a tinkerer and he used investors money like he would have used a grant in his academia days. He used those investments to tinker and when the money ran out, the money ran out.
Fanboys shouldn't fool themselves into thinking that just because Freedom Motors has a CEO called Dr Paluru (or whoever he is) that Paul Moller isn't calling the shots. Of course he is.
If you go to the Moller Skycar facebook page, you will see someone shared an article on the Porsche/Boeing flying car plans. The very first person who commented quoted Moller's white paper.
Nah, Jeff will not re-appear. Even if he does, I bet his position will be in the vicinity of 'It doesn't matter. Paul will never let us down. Soon to the moon! Any day now! This time is different.'.
But yeah, I would also love to hear from him and also some of the other fanboys who used to be so smug.
Hahaha! And there fanboys be fanboys.
Someone shared an article of the Porsche/Boeing flying car plans on the Moller fanboy facebook group and the first reaction? Some genius fan actually quotes Moller's "white paper" on the stupidity of EVTOLs.
Instead of you fanboys bellyaching about your enlightenment on electric aviation on facebook and Moller message boards, why don't you directly contact Boeing, Airbus, Porsche, Toyota, Hyundai, Piper, Pipistrel, Embraer, Larry Page, Sebastian Thrun, some other big and small companies and individuals and, of course, some governments like Japan and Singapore. You guys can save these companies, individuals and governments BILLIONS of dollars with your superior knowledge and insight. You, my friends, can save the world.
Just on a side note. Remember, even the Wright brothers said that fixed wing aircraft will never become a viable form of transport. They said aircraft will remain a 'sporting' vehicle, because engines will never become powerful enough to carry passengers in large scale. They also said a couple of years later that helicopters will never be practical, also because of the power needed to lift them.
All I'm saying is that if you didn't become enlightened yourself, if you didn't crunch the numbers yourself and you are relying on the opinion of so called "experts", then remember, experts can also be wrong. Even more so if the so called 'expert' is pushing an agenda.
Of course the guy selling beef will tell you that it is superior to mutton, pork or chicken. Of course the guy selling apples will tell you apples are healthier than pears and peaches. Of course the guy trying to sell you worthless foreign currency at inflated rates will tell you there is a 'global currency reset' coming...And of course these people will have some form of document to verify that claim. Of course they will have done studies and research. Problem is, companies' research is often biased and subjective.
Don't forget Banking. Internet banking? What a disaster! Your money will disappear through the wires, they said. Now, I cannot remember the last time I set foot in a real bank. Perhaps 5 years ago, if not more. Cash. I have some cash in my wallet now, because I went on vacation and figured I'd get some just in case, otherwise I never have cash on me. Mobile phones? Only for high net worth executives. A status symbol more than a practical tool. Now nobody can live without one. We use it to watch TV, listen to music, shop, bank, buy and sell shares, keep in touch with people halfway across the world, track our children's movement, record life events and the list goes on.
Nah, you are right. Progress cannot be stopped.
I read just now that Porsche and Boeing is also partnering up to explore the "high end" urban air mobility market. There are very few Aircraft and Car manufacturers left that are not exploring EVTOL aircraft.
Luckily the Moller fans have quietly disappeared. As I knew they would. Otherwise some nut would have said "Moller should contact Porsche and Boeing right away!". On the other hand, they one guy that loved saying Moller should partner up with (whoever and article was about) did become enlightened by the end.
Moller released a 1 page white paper a few years back (when Zack Rabin still worked for him for free) on how stupid Electric VTOLs are.
No, Moller will never go electric. Will he ever admit that he was wrong about the rotary engine? I think not.
Ahh, good old Zack. Remember what the fanboys said about Zack? They said "this time is different".
I think there is a place in the market for Non-electric VTOLs, but electric is definitely where big money is flowing into.
I don't know if it is age, but there was a time where Moller used to pump out new 'designs' in an afternoon. Think M100, M200 and the various Military models. They looked like they were drawn by grade schoolers.
I am surprised that he didn't spend an afternoon 'designing' an EVTOL, even just to fake the impression that he is still relevant. They did talk 'hybrid' a few times, but also it was just a little stab at relevance.
My post had nothing to do with the stock. I was talking about technology.
- I know MLER will never trade again.
- I know Moller will never fly anything again.
- I know Freedom Motors, despite all the "good news" will not achieve anything.
- I know both FM & MI will go down in history as failures
I have said it countless times before.
The fanboys, on the other hand will never give up because to them, well, "this time is different". Always.
All I was trying to say is that the Fanboys who continuously bash the hundreds E-VTOL developments are not looking at the bigger picture. They are fixated on their own beliefs that Electric propulsion will never work. They are fixated on the fact that the company and man they worship is developing an internal combustion engine that is in competition with electric propulsion.
If developers, customers and regulators ever get to a point where you or I can open and app and call a 'flying car', electric or not, then the door will be open for EVERYONE regardless of what propulsion system makes your aircraft go.
FACT:
Moller Fan: "Electric VTOL is so stupid! They won't ever get more than 20 minutes flight time!"
Me: "Well, that is 20 minutes longer flight time than anything Moller has!"
Besides, for the type of application these E-VTOL aircraft are designed, 20 minutes is enough. It is called "Urban Air Mobility" for a reason.
In my 20's I did the whole 'city life' thing. An 8 mile commute took me 1 hour on a good day and if there was an accident on the freeway (and there were a lot of them), it took me up to 3 hours to get to work. Heading home after work was even worse. In peak time that 8 miles back, without any problems on the freeway, took 1 hour 30 minutes if one chose to do it. I opted to leave the office later, but it still meant getting home late. Sitting in traffic is the MAIN reason I now live in a large town and not in a city.
Most E-VTOL trips will be 10 minutes or less.
I see the 'quadcopter-type' designs (like E-hang) doing the short hops, the 'fixed-wing' type designs (kitty hawk cora) for hops a bit longer and there are even the non-electric XTI Trifan and Pegasus VBJ VTOL 'business jets' for city to city travel. Somewhere between the 'VTOL Business Jets' and the 'fixed wing VTOL' I see space for a M400-type aircraft.
My point is, instead of bashing E-VTOL, Moller fans should support it. If these new flying cars fail, then the door will close for your company as well. Many companies and people are sinking billions into this. If this all goes tits-up, then NO investor, in the near future, will touch anything Flying Car related. It will be better for YOU, Moller Fan, if this thing works out. It will create opportunities for YOUR company.And lets face it, the reason Moller is where it is, is because doors won't open for them. The success of these VTOL Air Taxis may very well unlock some doors for Moller.
Besides, I doubt companies like Boeing, Airbus, Hyundai, Toyota and startups with backers like Larry Page and Sebastian Thrun and NASA will listen to your bellyache over the impracticality of electric propulsion.
Yup, and how did faking credibility work out for MI? Sure, a lot of noise was made, but when it came to handing over cash, people with sense knew better.
FM is walking the same path, but with them not being a listed company, they will go after individuals and as we have seen with MI before they were listed, there are a lot of fools that were willing to part with their money.
I would also like to know what Jeff thinks about all this, but those guys that gave Moller money for shares before they went public, I would like to know that they think.
They can offer FM stock for MI stock for 1:1 for all I care. FM is going nowhere. I've been following these companies for long enough to know that they are incapable of achieving anything despite all the talk, talk, talk, talk...
Moller kept on tinkering with his Skycars until the funding dried up. He will tinker with the engines until the funding also dries up. Not that there is any funding at this stage. Talk of finding, yes, but no 'investment partner' has put pen on paper yet.
Even if, by some miracle, an 'investment partner' gives FM some money, they will tinker it away before anything concrete happens and then we'll be back to the square called 'we cant move forward, because we have no money'.
How dare I say that, you ask? I say that, because that is what Moller does. He's been doing it for 60 years. He's a tinkerer. He uses funding given to him by investors like he used grants back in his college professor days.
You really think that after 60 years of tinkering and blowing through millions of dollars that 'this time is different'?
That whole definition of insanity thing may apply to those who believe 'this time is different' and 'Moller won't let us down'. Wake up. Smell the coffee.
I am willing to bet that by 09/12/2020 nothing in this message will have come to pass.
1) No "manufacturing partner" will have manufactured anything
2) No "investment partner" will have invested anything
3) No "strategic partner" will have added any value
4) No "influential Government official" will have added value
5) None of the "FM team in India" will have added any value
To: All Newsletter Subscribers
From: Paul S. Moller
MOLLER INTERNATIONAL
Moller International worked closely with the SEC to determine what was necessary to keep it from being delisted. Unfortunately, even if MI had the funds to generate its annual 10K filing report, it would still be delisted because the time it would take to prepare the filing exceeds the SEC’s allotted time to do so.
MI can reapply to become a registered company, which will be expensive and require ongoing 10K and 10Q filings costing up to $150,000 per year. For 16 years MI has not been able to raise funds, except through borrowing. The reason for this was explained in my last Newsletter. I personally have provided much of MI’s operating capital until I was forced into a Chapter 11 reorganization in 2008. Before MI decides to re-register as a public company, it will need a funding commitment from some source to provide a substantial amount of capital. Lack of funds is precisely why MI was unable to keep its filings current. Before any funding source would make a financial commitment, the potential investor would want to see MI’s balance sheet. You can see the balance sheet for June 30, 2015 clicking here. You will note that as of that date, MI’s liabilities were $16,875,225 with little assets. Debt was rising at $1.8 million per year, primarily due to accruing interest. Today, liabilities exceed $22 million. Until funding is available to cover the cost of 10Q and 10K filings, registration, and operations. MI will remain a private company, unless it is forced into liquidation by a creditor.
A number of FM stockholders have asked me whether it is possible to exchange some or all of their MI shares for FM shares. Based on an exchange of market value for market value, the exchange rate would be over 300 shares of MI stock for one share of FM stock. FM might be willing to accept an exchange rate of 100 to 1 if enough MI stockholders are interested in participating.
If you are interested, email me at: paul@freedom-motors.com stating the number of shares of MI stock that you would like to exchange if given this opportunity.
Please note “This is not an offer to exchange stock but rather an inquiry as to the interest you may have in exchanging some or all of your MI shares for FM shares. Such an exchange would require approval by the SEC and Directors of Freedom Motors.”
Be careful with those questions. For the fanboys questions = attack.
When they did have SH meetings the only people who would go apart from the 'board' seemed to be people who wanted to have their pictures taken in the mock-ups, get free food and fruit punch.
But yeah, all valid questions
I agree that Moller's obsession with his rotary engine is a problem, but he has convinced himself and his shareholders and fans that his rotary engine is the key. Convincing him (and his shareholders and fans) that he is on the wrong path will be impossible. Impossible.
There are some fundamental beliefs held by the Moller fans and shareholders and they are impossible to change:
- The Rotary engine is the key
- Moller is not at all at fault with their 2003 run-in with the SEC
- Moller just needs a little more money to achieve success
- The Skycar prototype is basically ready to fly
- Moller is somehow still THE authority on flying cars
- There are 'provisional orders' for millions of engines
- There are actually engines working to claimed specs
- "This time is different"
None of these are true, of course.
I have to ask. In the very, very, very unlikely scenario of MI being taken over by shareholders, what exactly do you think the shareholders will get?
What does MI have? A couple of fibre glass mock-ups? What else? There are no engines as anything engine related belongs to FM.
And then, if control goes to the shareholders, then what? What happens then?
Wow, you just don't give up, do you?
There really is no point in staying current. It is no secret that MI is dormant. de-listing is actually a logical next step. One would just have expected Moller to give his shareholders a heads-up.
I'm beginning to wonder if they aren't going to perform some 'legal & financial gymnastics' to get control of the Skycar side of the business out of Moller International. Maybe make it part of FM or start a new company. Perhaps a private company like FM. The IP and assets held by MI isn't much. Way less than the fans think it is. Plus Paul Moller is still the controlling shareholder. There also isn't any point in having shareholders anymore. To get his hands on more money, he needs big investment. To get a big investment, he needs to sell new shares. To sell new shares, he needs to work around the fact that he has shareholders. He needs to get rid of them, or sideline them at least. They are only a liability at this stage. Perhaps start a business of which the current MI is only a small shareholder and not a controlling entity...
"Paul Moller cares for his shareholders, he wouldn't do that to us" is a sentiment I've heard before. Business is business. There is no place for sentiment and cinnamon scented unicorn kittens.
Good job. I've wanted to do that, but never had the time. Sad, but the information you supplied will go totally ignored by the fans. Or, the mere posting of it will be viewed as an attack on Moller.
On the other hand, anybody using common sense doesn't need information to know that 'provisional orders' for anything will remain the same for a decade. Businesses move on, people move on.
I bet there may even be a statement coming from the company spinning this suspension as 'a good thing'.
I know Moller fans are not worried about the latest developments, but boy am I glad I sold my stock years ago...
Don't stress about the suspension people. Everything will be fine because...THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT