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SJ, looks like smoke and mirrors to me! PN referred to the protocol change as a “minor adjustment to the protocol”. I think the adjustment means that the phase II dosing is going to have to be completed “again” before any meaningful results are accomplished, I’m guessing another year “at least”. The financials indicate that we have $4mil in the bank and the burn rate is about $1mil per qtr but that should increase significantly with all of the programs Peter referred to that are underway. There’s not enough money to finish anything without additional funding and Peter’s put BPTH in a position that future funding will come at a huge cost to both BPTH and the long-term investors.
He started by saying that BPTH is in a great position to start helping patients. What? If that was his concern this product would have been in the market years ago and we would be reaping the rewards of our investments!
By the way, ARWR is receiving funding from Amgen which may be why their market cap is so large compared to a nothing company like BPTH.
Mt Bobster, do you know the difference between a short seller and a carp? One is a scum-sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish! Shorters sell stock they do not own by borrowing brokerage shares, in the anticipation that the share price will drop, in the short term, and they can then buy stock back at a lower price to cover their sale. Their profit is the difference between the price they sold at and the price they were able to buy stock back to cover their short sell. Anyone shorting stock can lose big-time if they guess the stock wrong and the price doesn’t drop. They then have to buy shares back at a price higher than their sale price which results in a loss to them. For this reason brokerage firms require short sellers to have a margin account in case share price goes up and the brokerage has to cover the sold stock. The brokerage covers the loss from the short sellers margin account. Investors shorting stock typically pick weak, poorly performing stocks. PN and the Board have put BPTH in a prime position for shorting!
When I say that shorters are bottom-dwellers it is because at times when they fear the stock isn’t going down they will write posts spreading lies, half-truths and innuendos in an attempt to drive the price down so they can cover their short sells. This happened a couple of years ago when Streetsweeper published an article about BPTH because the share price had quickly jumped to around $3 per share and he had a large short to cover. The result was a large, quick drop in BPTH share price based upon his half-truths. That was the beginning of the long drop in share price that we’ve seen coupled with the incredible mismanagement that exists in the CEO and BOD. Streetsweepers article caused investors to take a long look at PN and the Board and they didn’t like what they saw!
A good reference on short sales is Essentials of Investment by Bodie, Kane and Marcus.
The poster presentation is a perfect Harvard Business School case study of a company that doesn’t know what it wants to be. While the results are very encouraging PN is burning through cash jumping from indication to indication without finishing anything he has started. If I were an institutional investor I wouldn’t give Peter a dime without huge concessions, Sabby case in point, as the probability of getting a return on any future investment is a long shot as Peter jumps from program to program. This falls squarely on Peter’s shoulders and the inept BOD, who as has been rightly pointed out are reaping rewards for doing nothing!
SJ, something has been eating at me. Either PN is a total idiot, as he appears to be, or he has an agenda that is his alone. How is it that Peter is willing to risk losing $millions in his own stock value and the value of all of the shareholders by just dragging this entity called BioPath into the ground? We are watching it disintegrate right before our eyes! Why is MD Anderson not crying to the high heavens for Peter to get his butt in gear and get “their” biotech commercialized? After all, they have a potential of $millions tied up in BPTH for their retirement fund. There are numerous alternative treatments for cancer coming on line every day and the side effects are getting less and less and the therapies are getting better and better. Why has PN no urgency to bring this thing home? Why is the the BOD like a bunch of neutered dogs? Maybe because they are! Why are the shareholders the only one’s who appear to want this therapy in the market generating revenue and saving lives? When does time run out for BPTH? Something just doesn’t smell right to me! I wonder what PN smells like!
While I’m on my soap box I need to reply to Barbedwire! Actually, there is no evidence that DNAbilize works on any cancer or other diseases than AML and apparently since BPTH is returning to the 90 mg dose that is yet to be proven by clinicals. Your assertion of other cancers and diseases must be proven by clinical studies! Basically, it appears we are still in a vacuum there! You talk about revenue streams? I wish Peter could generate just one revenue stream, in the near future, but he seems incapable of that! Revenue is just streaming one direction, into Peter’s pocket! As far as naked shorts, I’m pretty much certain that naked shorting is not the problem here and those shorts are covered, if you understand how shorting is handled by the brokerage firms. Our brokerage stock may be used for covering shorts and we don’t even know it. The crap here is that Peter has put us in a position where it is more lucrative to short BPTH than it is to own it! We are seeing a remarkable case study of the Peter Principle in action!!
SJ, you are absolutely correct! Not long ago I worked as Director of Operations for a small biotech start-up in which the President/CEO and the VP’s (2 of them) and the directors (2) did not have a total annual salary as large as Peter’s annual salary, never mind his bonuses! The company recently sold to a major player in their space for $46 million. The officers made their money on the sale of the company and guess what, they worked their butts off to make the company worth the $46 million price tag! We met once a week until 7-9p, after working a full day, reviewing timelines, performance to timelines and giving accountability for our performance. Oh, and did I say we got products to market and generated a revenue stream! Nope, Peter is really just an extremely overpaid paper weight! He has no reason to change!
Are you kidding me Luv and Running? What a great gig Peter has, a $600K salary with no required accomplishments and no accountability!! I have worked with CEO’s who are earning 2/3s of Peter’s salary and benefits working for start-ups with 10 times the market value of BioPath and who actually have to report to a BOD! Peter is just an old fart living the dream. Why should he have it any different? Does he even go into the office every day and work the 12-14 hour days? I doubt it!
Running, glad to hear that is your position! I appreciate your candor. Almost 4 years ago I told Peter that for the sake of BioPath he should resign and retire. It seemed then and seems more so now that Peter doesn't know if he is committed to the goose or the golden egg. I made good money on Juno and Kite. I fear that BPTH technology will be eclipsed, in the future, by a technology developed by companies like Kite and Juno.
SJ, great summary for Running on BPTH’s 2017 failures. I suspect that since Running nailed the date of release of information from BPTH regarding the studies that he has a line to BPTH management, and maybe he is posting on their behalf. One thing nobody has pointed out it’s that when Phase II started the protocol was amended from 90 mg to 60 mg costing the study 6 months to make the amendments with the FDA and the study sponsors. Now they are amending the study back to the 90 mg level. Who is in charge there? Does anyone know what they are doing there?
BrettJ, I am not surprised in the least at Doug’s reply to you. He fits in perfectly with the BPTH management philosophy. In my 30+ years in biotechnology I have worked with some of the very best management and some very bad management. I have to say, BPTH management is the absolute worst! What a great gig! Peter, et al., are collecting nice compensation with no accountability and no performance. Peter has no reason to bring this home! The only people getting rich here are Peter, Doug and the CRO!
I have an appointment to make my first contact today. My biggest concern is that the institutional investors have lost so much value that they no longer care nor are they putting any effort into their holdings. If that is the case this may be a lost cause.
Pat, like you, I was one of the early message board members who begged shareholders to vote against Peter and the entire BOD. I took a lot of abuse back then being called such things as “negative” and “shorter”. My favorite was those that said “...if you can’t take it just sell and get out”!! As it turns out I should have taken their advice!! My opposition came from some early discussions that I had with Peter where I realized that he didn’t have any plan and lacked the required ability to complete the program. I’m sure we’ve all heard of the “Peter Principle”!!
Completing phase II is just the beginning. This therapy still has to be peer recognized and it has to be marketed, sold and delivered. Maybe Peter is holding his plans “close to the vest” but I don’t think that he has ever had any experience with marketing and distribution and I don’t see an organization in place that can pull it off!
We should all be able to recognize Peter and Doug when we see them on the street. They will be the one’s with the scarlet letter “I” (for incompetent or idiot, your choice) stamped in their foreheads!
Incidently, I have been mulling a plan to contact institutions and large shareholders to try to get some pressure on replacing PN and DM if anyone is interested. I have access to several very large shareholders.
Well, it’s done. BioPath announced the appointment of a new Indepenent member of the BOD today, Paul Aubert. He’s an attorney but only time will tell of he’s just a PN rubber stamp as the other members of the board are. Looks like the way is clear for the RS as de-listing for the BOD issue is off the table.
Pat, please take a look at Delaware Corporate Code Title 8, sec 216 (especially (2)). If I understand this correctly, and I am not an attorney, It states that only votes by those present or those whose votes have been duly represented by proxy can be counted for any item of company business and a quorum of votes have to be represented in the vote or it is not recognized. Brokerage non-votes do not enter into the count. Time to complain to the Delaware Division of Corporations! BioPath is a Delaware corporation. Peter and Doug are just garden variety con men!
http://delcode.delaware.gov/title8/c001/sc07/
Pat, I wonder if the SEC accepts the position of BPTH that brokerage non-votes can be applied to the “YES” vote accumulation. It looks like after Tuesday Jan 2, 2018 i will be making inquiries with the SEC regarding this issue. I quote, “Something is rotten in Denmark” (or Houston, as the case may be!!). I wish the BOD would put as much effort into making this company successful as they are into their conniving. I think Peter Nielsen and his little minion Doug Morris are crooks!! There I’ve said it!! And, by the way, I would say it to their faces!
Sorry GP if you felt I was going after you. You have always tried to be a rational and reasonable commentor on this message board.
GpHeart, I just had the privilege of voting to withhold the BOD and voting NO on the stock split iniative and the bonus iniative for the second time today as I received the proxy statement for another purchase of BPTH.
I was thinking about your comment that it doesn’t make sense unless we have a plan. I ask, how is that any different from the current state of BioPath? Is there a plan? Who would know, anyone? To me the BioPath plan is that there is no current plan! There is a lot of activity, period but no plan! BioPath is caught in a whirlpool, endless do loop, activity trap, call it what you would like. They are patting themselves on the back and giving bonuses and stock options for simply performing a lot of activity NOT for results and they seem perfectly happy with that!! What a great gig Peter has, $1.9mm last year? And who knows what for 2017.
My assessment of Peter Nielsen and his management style can be summarized in four critical points:
1. No accountability. He accounts only to himself! The BOD only approves PN’s desires. He has fashioned the BOD for that. There have been several very high profile mistakes which have cost 2-3 years to the program and there has been no one held responsible.
2. No commitment. In Peter’s responses in his last conference call Yi could not get a commitment from Peter regarding the status of phase II and the 19 patients and the schedule for submission to the FDA and as a result Yi’s firm dropped the target price significantly as we all know. I’m guessing there is nowhere to be found a program timeline within BioPath. That would require accountability. Things are just proceeding on the PN timeline. As my Jr High coach used to say, “grandma is slow but she is old”! I think that applies here to Peter!
3. No urgency. I discussed this point with Peter on one occasion several years ago and his response to me was, “there’s always room for another cancer treatment”. Wrong answer!! He apparently doesn’t understand “eclipsing technologies”. He doesn’t understand the importance of first to market and the barriers to entry that FTM provides.
4. No communications. No additional comment required. We all know what a miserable communicator Peter is and he blames it on the study protocol. Give me a break!
In my mind these 4 points are the reason that PN and the BOD have to be removed, the sooner the better! Finding replacements is a discussion for another day about which I am not worried! A trained monkey could do what Peter is doing and for bananas!!
Word, I still own a not insignificant quantity of BPTH shares (although it becomes less significant with every recent management decision). I have held my position for in excess of 5 years now having purchased shares at a variety of prices from $0.30 to just short of $5 pps. I feel a responsibility, as a shareholder, to not only get this technology to the market but to hold the management team accountable for their performance or lack of performance. I believe that once the therapy is available to treat the various targeted cancers the share price will not be an issue. Right now,IMO, we do not have the correct management to make that happen quickly and efficiently.
ADVFN, I was once an optimist as far as BioPath and PN are concerned. In fact, when I first became an investor I bet the youngest of my 10 children that Peter would hit his timelines and lost. I continued to bet until I am now childless!! As it turns out I now owe 5 non-existent children, my house, car and all of my birthday money and am now a BPTH pessimist! If Peter says January for an update (recalling that he earlier predicted that they would be filing with the FDA by December) I’m guessing that we’ll hear a July-August estimate for submission. I don’t personally recall ever being aware of such an inept management team! But then I’ve only had 25+ years in the industry!
Word, I agree with your sentiments and your analysis. One thing I feel very succintly is that your analysis will never happen with current management. We need a management team in place who is not looking out only for their own interests but that has a history of actually bringing “products” successfully to market. My greatest fear, and I believe management has shown this with recent announcements is that they will never get out of the R&D mode. They will run the company into the ground first.
Unfortuanately GP, while the 10:1 RS is a tool that may allow for a positive outcome it is also a statement of the incredibly poor management which is PN and his team.
Puma Bio (PBYI) received conditional, drug of last resort, approval on their treatment for breast cancer and their stock is trading at about $130 per share today. Juno Therapuetics (JUNO) had a couple of deaths attributed to their phase I trials and they are trading around $56 per share today and, I believe, in phase II today.
This is Peter’s show and his arrogance is responsible for the dismal performance of BPTH stock. I believe the shorters will smell blood in the water and there would be a shorter feeding frenzy if the share price gets high enough to attract their attention through a reverse split.
Longinvesting, I just voted “AGAINST” on all of the propositions and “WITHHOLD” for the BOD with a song in my heart and a smile on my face. I have an acquaintance who holds 500K shares who told me he is doing the same. If you don’t have the nerve to vote to withhold all of the directors then, at least, vote individually and hit PN and DM. The thoughts of giving PN a “performance based” bonus and stock incentives gives me horrible stomach problems for which BP-1001 has no effect!
Interesting thought! If the board approves a 10-1 reverse split the number of outstanding shares will drop to approximately 10 mil. The discussion in the proxy statement says that “...the number of the companies authorized shares will not be reduced proportionately...”. Now as I understand this, the 13 mil shares they want the shareholders to approve for bonuses (authorized shares held by the company) would mean that if they withheld the distribution of the bonus shares until after the reverse split those 13 million shares could then be distributed the Peter and others on a one-for-one basis to take control of the company making them the majority stockholders. I’m sure this thought never crossed Peter’s mind!
Blairsoldman, I agree with you but in my years in the industry I have seen companies put out some pretty shoddy products and make exorbitant claims that were untrue and that resulted in the death of patients. I have known executives that had criminal charges filed against them for that type of behavior so the FDA clamped down on the industry and went the other way making it harder to get products to market resulting in the deaths of patients who couldn’t get legitimate treatments but the FDA can’t be accused of negligence. It’s far easier to get clinical studies completed and therapies and products accepted for use outside of the US so many companies go internationally for their clinical studies. It seems to be easier to get domestic FDA approval for products already accepted internationally and the clinical study data can also be used for US approval.
Blairsoldman, the simple answer to your question is that the term “salvage patient” as used in a clinical study protocol allows patients on whom the traditional treatments have not worked to be used as guinea pigs for the clinical trial. Even if the test proves to be successful during the trial for a specific indication, in the case of BP-1001 AML, the treatment cannot be generally used until FDA approval is given for the treatment for the specific indication tested. That is what we are all “patiently” waiting for right now for BP-1001!
If BioPath were to allow BP-1001 to be used by anyone outside of the approved clinical trial sites the FDA has the authority to shut them down.
Brettj, what is that sucking sound we are all hearing? It’s the sound of our limited asset, “cash”, being pulled out of the BPTH bank acount to fund the start of the phase II CML study. I’m going to get biblical here for a minute, sorry I couldn’t resist, Luke 14: “28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down, and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?
29 Otherwise, when he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all who see it begin to mock him,” RSV.
I’m concerned that Peter is a relic of his past! He hasn’t commercialized “any” product that I’m aware of for more than 16 years, if ever! I don’t see anyone on the BPTH staff who has any experience! Once the AML studies are complete and approval is a given it’s going to be expensive to market DNAbilize. Maybe Peter thinks people will be lining up at the door. Not in my experience. Is there going be be enough cash remaining to generate sales? What about a sales force or a sales agent?
One upside for the increase in share price, if it continues, is going out for additional funding will not dilute the current shareholders quite as badly. On the flip side, maybe this is all being done for show, the survival of Peter Nielsen! NO, HE WOULDN’T DO THAT WOULD HE?
Iloveu2, I have been concerned for a long time with the rapid decrease in operating capital as you have pointed out. I was concerned with PN’s comment from his last presentation that they were starting the CML trials as that would be another “cash sink” at this critical juncture. Hopefully, that is why the CML trials have been delayed! I seem to remember. A couple of years ago you were a PN supporter and stood up for him on this board. Has that changed? Are you shorting the stock?
SJ, where did you see the confirmation that 9 patients were completed and 9 additional enrolled? I haven't seen that. It is good to finally see the daily market close being reported in a color other than red!
An earlier post seemed to imply that DNAbilize could be the "silver bullet" that would replace numerous chemo drugs in the future. If you look at the referenced slide closely you will see that the patient, who unfortuanately died, was an HIV patient who had a CML blast crisis and stable AML in addition to other serious autoimmune illnesses. People who die with HIV don't die from HIV but from numerous complications caused by the autoimmune disorder, cancers such as leukemia and lymphoma being a common complication. In any case the cocktail of drugs listed on the slide were not all there to treat his AML, in fact Gleevec is not indicated for treating AML but rather CML and ALL. We would be wrong to jump to the conclusion that DNAbilize will become the therapy of choice for physicians in the future for all cancers, replacing existing chemo drugs, although that would be great if it did!. In fact, when the BPTH CML studies begin it is very possible that Gleevec may be the drug used for a combination therapy if a combination study is submitted to the FDA so let's be careful not to jump to apparently logical conclusions that may not exist. I understand that the conclusion was made in an attempted to justify market capitalization but it can be mis-leading to the casual observer.
One thing about combination studies is that if they are as successful as we hope and they currently appear there would be every reason for a pharmaceutical company who makes the chemo drug used in the study to want to own BioPath either completely or in part, IMO.
SJ, Puma was trading around $25 per share, down from the $180-$200 it had been trading at before their phase II woes were made known, when the announcement of their FDA approval was given and the stock jumped around $75 in just a few days to over $100. I use PBYI as a comparison because their management, at one time, looked very similar to BioPath's and they licensed their drug, Naratinib, from a pharmaceutical company for development. Despite their phase II challenges and the horrific side effects they kept the share price at around $25. They kept their shareholders and the market informed of their challenges and what they were doing to mitigate their problems. The experience of their management in the industry paid off handsomely for them even though they were only granted restricted usage.
We should all understand that none of us knows for sure what BioPath means when they say "...we are on track to have 19 patients completed by the end of the year." What does that mean? Who would know?!! Not even the Shadow knows for sure! The way they have phrased their progress they could mean, (1) 19 patients are enrolled in the study, (2) 19 patients are enrolled and dosed, or (3) 19 patients are enrolled, dosed and the data has been compiled, reviewed and a report has been submitted to the FDA with a request for accelerated review and approval. I think we all hope they mean no. 3, otherwise there could be significant delays ahead.
WE HAVE TO HOLD BIOPATH MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTABLE! I get really uncomfortable when management talks in generalities, especially after they have made it very difficult for the owners of the company, the shareholders, to take action against the management if they miss their committed deliverables.
Barto, it's a sad commentary that you are excited to see BPTH hit $1. The analysts are saying the stock should be in the $2.5 to $5 range and a couple of years ago Zack's had it listed at $10. Now we get excited at $1? Management ineptitude.
Have your insider sources told you what "completing the enrollment of 19 patients by the end of the year..." means? Does this mean only that 19 patients are enrolled, 19 patients have been dosed, 19 patients have been dosed and the data has been analyzed and a study report has been filed witht the FDA?
I don't see an appreciable improvement to the stock price until approval has been given by the FDA which could be an additional 6 months if 19 patients have only been dosed by the end of the year; much longer if 19 patients have only been enrolled.
Puma Biotech stock jumped $75 per share when they were given approval of their breast cancer drug as essentially a last line of therapy treatment after everything else has been done. They have grade III diarrhea (can be deadly) as a side effect. Why should we be happy with $1, $2.5 or even $5 per share?
GpHeart, funny thing my first impression when I saw the bump today is "who is BPTH leaking information to about the 19 patients that would cause a run-up?" Sad to think that but it is what it is! It would be great if the market got an update rather than just a few "select" individuals! Not saying that's what has happened here but there seems to be a history. I will say that a color other than "red" is refreshing!
Wow Barto, great insight. Now can you tell us what is being done to get the share price up to $1? The 8K listing said they will RS if necessary. That would be a great move for all of us who have hung in there for years! We still have the same inept management in place with a second de-listing letter yet to be addressed. What we're seeing is lipstick on a pig! SJ, I think that was your line!! I want this therapy in the market if it is as good as we all think it is. I'll accept the financial benefits. PN, et al, don't have the necessary skills to make that happen IMHO, at least not in the next 2 years! Vote them out when the proxy vote comes.
We haven't even yet talked about the funding necessary to commercialize the drug which BPTH currently doesn't have.
dmoffat, never really thought of you as a useful idiot, just one of us who has been with this stock for a long time, hoping against hope that the technology would prove effective only to see that management has no concept of timeliness or accountability and a regular annual income and bonuses from money that they don't have any accountability for. I've just seen the same hope that we've all tried to have.
Thanks BPTH2008! GP thinks I overthought it but I was just trying to connect the dots. There just too many things that don't make sense with BPTH right now, chiefly why the market can't get updates but "connected" anonymous individuals can and they are more than willing to share the "good news"! I think BPTH management is trying to protect their butts and using unsuspecting or maybe even knowledgable "victims" to cynically help them reach their objectives without any accountability. Time will tell but I do not question anything I put in my earlier post. With the proxy vote coming up shortly I will still be advocating for the removal and replacement of the entire remaining BOD! Has anyone heard the real details on the resignation of Dr. Sing and Garrison? That should be made available to the shareholders!
BPTH2008, I've been thinking about the release of insider information to "useful idiots" (no offense intended, it's just what they are called!) by BioPath. Consider this:
1. In June BioPath BOD changes the bylaws to make it significantly more difficult for shareholders to revolt and call a shareholder meeting to make changes to the management structure.
2. There is a shareholder proxy vote coming, very soon, to support or not support the CEO and BOD which could go either way. PN, et.al., need good news to report so the vote will go in their favor but they don't have good news to report publically and the natives are restless.
3. With nothing to report, they use "useful idiots" to leak information to message boards making it appear that everything is going swimmingly so that disgruntled shareholders begin to think that it would be foolish to "rock the boat" at this crucial juncture and they vote in favor of CEO and BOD.
4. BPTH management no longer has to worry about making deadline commitments as the vote is in their favor and if they miss targets it is nearly impossible for shareholders to now do anything due to the recent bylaw changes.
5. Management also has plausible deniability as they can simply say that they never released any information to the public about how the clinicals were going and they can't be responsible for information release anonymously.
It seems to be historical now that defenders of PN and the BOD come out of the woodwork just before the proxy vote to cheer and shake the Pom poms for Peter saying it would be ridiculous to even consider a negative vote for the BOD because things are going sooooo well!
Just a thought.
SJ, I looked up some previous posts, on the 7th of June Barto implied he was "buying heavily" because he was hearing some positive things. It now sounds like he and Teeds may be privy to insider information and, at least, Barto appears to have acted on it. Am I missing something here?
Barto, Teeds, how is it that you have information that the public is not privy too? Another case which supports the horrible mis-management of the company and the stock price? If this information is available to "insiders" it should be available to the public! All the market wants is an update and Peter and Doug have refused to give updates but they are willing to "leak" news through anonymous individuals. Wow!! Another reason to replace them!
Hey Pat, he has the greatest gig of all, not only is he sitting around but he is drawing a pretty impressive compensation package!
SJ, I agree completely with you and Too simple. It's like they are learning their management skills from some made-for-television drama on HBO. Even the last addition to the BOD, when you got through the smoke of his CV, is just another "yes man" for Peter. I think Peter and the board have put themselves in a position of civil liability through their negligence. Through my experience in this industry I would say that BPTH is about 5 years behind schedule at this point. What a great gig for Peter and Ulrich. They are compensating themselves like they are the darling of Wall Street. On the other hand, maybe Peter thinks, in his mind, that being CEO, CFO and COB is cost cutting. Three for the price of one or is it two!
SJ, I am frustrated that BPTH is still burning cash to get clinicals started for AML and for pursuing the IND. If we were cash healthy that would be great but incredibly poor management continues to put BPTH in untenable situations for which the only solution is overall stock dilution (except for Peter of course who continues to grant himself stock bonuses). I don't see any belt tightening here, just continued spending increases and extremely poor judgement.
Without actually seeing his statement and reading the protocol it would be difficult to say he is lying but to mischaracterize the protocol requirement as an FDA requirement is really stretching the truth. The protocol, approved by the FDA, might say that there will be no public reports until after the test results are in and approved but the FDA has no requirements that the market can't be made aware of study progress, just non-approved study outcomes. Even then companies give updates all the time about their on-going studies.