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Rumpel -- unless I am wrong -- whether or not the judge approves the order tomorrow -- there will still be a 45 day objection period for the creditors to voice their objections if they have any. (which is why that earlier news piece that the assets will be placed in a trust and the sale not consummated until January.)
I do believe that whether or not the judge approves the deal -- there will have to be a 45 day period for objections to the sale. In this objection time frame it can be brought up by the creditors that the prior offer by Wanxiang was 465m.
I guess I find it interesting that they filed a Chapter 11 Reorg and not just a pre-arranged Chapter 7 with the Stalking Horse Bidder. It seems they had no intention of further operations. Win some lose some.
Regarding the Stalking Horse Bid (someone mentioned this earlier) -- did anyone get a chance to read the original terms with JCI on them being stalking horse? It is a valid pt that many stalking horse bids are a combination of a purchase price along with the agreement to assume liabilities. All other bids must follow that same format -- so IF that were the case then the bid by Wanxiang was $260m and they assume liabilities.
Turns the whole picture around -- I will try to look up the original agreement later this afternoon to see what the terms were -- as all the other bids would have to follow the same terms.
I would highly recommend at least trying to look that first agreement before panic selling your shares. Myself it was a gamble that could go either way so won't be selling in the am. Ill wait for any panic to subside.
Here is one other question that I have -- I am holding shares in this and have been for a while. However I have not had the time to research out a few things further - was wondering by chance if anyone else had.
When A123 filed BK -- not ALL of their divisions were included in the BK. I believe those divisions were mainly overseas. Were those divisions included though in the "corporate" stock that was aoneq? If so were they profitable divisions?
The reason I am asking this question is that not all Chapter 11 stocks end up with the shareholders receiving nothing or with the stock not being traded anymore. Lets by chance say that the bids only covered debt of those divisions included in the BK - then what about those divisions that were NOT included in the BK?
Hopefully I am making sense -- have been working too many hours with too little sleep lol.
Has anyone done any research on those other divisions?
The article only said that Wanxiang's bid was short of the 465m it had offered before, however they removed all the government contracts and those were sold to another company. Not necessarily bad news.
I don't think that the letter is sent to shareholders as a normal basis -- however I assure you that it is nothing different than any other bankruptcy. There may be a claim you could "file" if you were holding before the bankruptcy then sold after they filed - you would have to check with an attorney on that one. If you held before and are still holding you are a shareholder on record at the time of the BK - (technically anyone with "proof" can file a claim - it does not mean it will be considered.)
A letter is sent in every BK case to those either listed as a debt by the Company or stockholders - it establishes a bar date for their claim to be considered under the bankruptcy. Lets say that A123 lists Company A as a debtor that they owe 1000.00 to -- if they list it as undisputed then the amount is considered. But if there were to list that Company A says they owe them 1000.00 but A123 disputes it -- then Company A has to file a proof of Claim by the bar date established in order to have their claim considered. If Company A does not file that claim then it is dismissed.
Thus mainly that letter is more for anyone that A123 did not directly list as a debtor - or for any disputed amounts. Anyone holding stock when the BK was filed would automatically receive this letter.
Standard issue in any BK.
There should be a MOR for October before the end of November.
When the Q was put on (which normally happens must faster in a bk stock than it did) - normally it takes 3 days for the adjustment in folks accounts for them to sell. Personally I think today was that day -- and this is that flush of panic.
As far as the company fighting the delisting -- there truly was nothing to fight on appeal. Why would they bother fighting a losing battle -- just money spent for no gain.
Well - perhaps if it hits .0001 we won't hear about the shorters anymore. There truly are bigger fish in the sea for shorters at this point.
So if the amount of critical posts mean that shorters are desperate - does the amount of enthusiastic posts mean that longs are desperate?
I am long but I am realistic. Nothing wrong with that in my book.
The problem is that we had a blitz of pr's that really did not do anything but raise more questions. We are acquiring 1/2 a bank. HOW? Where is the money coming from to retain these people? I was told by the IR firm that when they got the reports they would know who initially sold out. Thus the European investor selling out was a guess or a very misleading statement. (Is Val European?)
This stock needs TRANSPARENCY. Nothing is KNOWN. Thus I don't add to my shares - maybe someday it will go up.
Shorting at this level brings hardly any benefit to a shorter. The maximum gain is .0015 at this point. Do you not think there are better stocks to be picking on? I would bet money - if I sold 50k shares here that SOMEONE would say that the shorters just shorted 50k shares. All it would be is a sell.
Do I think buying at this level is a bad idea? No - just don't expect it to go to .10 anytime soon. Use money you don't need.
If you look back to my first posts on this board Olan - I said I do short listed stocks when it calls for it. Also - provide the date on that post lol. A true trader goes short or long - each stock is in a different pattern. You have not once answered any of the questions - where does the money come from - why let it go to pink before doing all these acquisitions, why would a CEO give you inside information as you have not once shared any of this "knowledge" that you have?
Still in - but just rather comical that the last time I checked in on this stock as I have been rather busy in the day - you were saying that particular week was the week the shorts would pay. Now over a month or so later and next week they will start paying. Olan - its great to be enthusiastic but this pattern is becoming old. It will either run or not - the CEO obviously could care less - perhaps the best thing he could do would be to gain compliance for the OTCBB which would add some kind of transparency to the stock. At this point its a pink - there are no real filings - it WAS on OTCBB and was changed to pink before all this occurred. Perhaps there was a reason for this. Where is the money coming from for the acquisitions? There is no interest in the stock - and when there is interest there is a seller - which is either stuck folks or folks tired of waiting. All of this is also supposedly happening in another country. Makes it much harder to do real dd on what is actually occurring.
Still long - but not looking for anything to happen real soon as this stock has no validity yet. And claiming to know what may be happening is akin to having insider information from Val - so that route is truly not acceptable.
This stock needs a valid reason to go up. Until that it will sit here and get hyped.
Agree on the SEC - but they have been prosecuting more and more pink sheet frauds. However on the CEO - this CEO does have an idea on what's going on - so can't claim that one. The reports were ordered weeks ago - they are in the proper hands and either they do something with it or they don't. It is in his best interests IF this is all up and up - to get something done as quickly as possible. Guess we will know soon.
Well it won't be the first shady CEO (if he is) and it won't be the last lol. The good thing is - the SEC does respond better now, they seem to be catching a lot of the folks that build scams off of shells. I have two or three tucked away that I have been watching just to see how much prison time they get. :)
Inside dilution could very well be happening as we type. You notice it sure doesn't take 20k share buys to move it now. Someone rather large is bailing. And I'm not to quick to discount that it wasn't the ceo selling in the first place to get funds. I ask again - why would someone be so upset to sell this thing to nothing if this merger is going to produce? Once again I'm long still - but truly see no reason to add more yet.
I don't feel it is dilution either - but I'm 100% positive it is not shorters at this point. There has not been one news release that gave anyone short a reason to cover. Nothing solid - nothing great. If this is the CEOs plan - he needs a new IR firm and new attorneys.
Just gotta be realistic with these. It's .0014 for a reason.
Olan - there is no benefit left for a shorter. The news did not even create a semblence of a cover. There are vast better stocks for a shorter to be on than this one. This is either holders getting tired of holding, or feeling that this is at this point shady, or even one of the original folks selling again. Perhaps Val did not tell you the plan was over a year's time. Regardless - there may be shorts left in this - but right now they are quite comfortable covering at the bid. There is no need to chase it.
Well the good thing is that only 14 more ticks to go and its not shorters anymore. :)
Still long but haven't added yet.
I'm thinking add when there is a reason to add perhaps. Had this CEO been that upset and had attorneys involved something would have been done. This could be no shorters whatsoever - just holders before the merger bailing - and then all the folks that bought into this high bailing. Generally creates a snowball. The pr Friday was disappointing to say the least. To make this work - this CEO needed to keep all in the public eye and work efficiently. Puts a fair disappointment on the IR firm also - that was not a pr that I would put together for a company trying to increase their share price.
What possible benefit is there to shorting at this price? Not much to make - cap on gain is .002 - much more possible benefit to buying, however, no one is even doing that at this point. Shorting this at .01 - .009 on the spike - yes I could see that - but just as there are points to buy there are points to short - and that point was gone a long time ago. IF there are any shorts left - being as the CEO has accomplished nothing and any and all interest is gone in the stock - all they have to do is sit on the bid and wait it out.
So - don't buy this based on short covering - buy it on fundamentals - and what fundamentals are there?
By the way - still long but not adding.
Posted by: olandug Date: Thursday, July 08, 2010 10:09:16 AM
In reply to: Slycoyote who wrote msg# 2008 Post # of 2723
CHANGE THE CUSIP NUMBER!!!
Let's contact the CEO of OTOW and encourage them to change the CUSIP number.
It can be done in one day and costs $140
The shorts will have to cover.
When this has been done in the past for companies like OTOW, usually the shorted companies shoot up between 100% to 500% in one or two days.
So who is right olan or you?
I appreciate your enthusiasm for the stock - but you still have to look at all angles. You can not prove what a pink stock says is going on. As I said - I am long.
Can you give any reasons why investors would be unhappy with the merger enough to sell the stock to nothing?
Can you provide proof that Val has not sold any of his own shares to finance any part of this?
Enthusiasm is great - however so is realism. That's not to say this won't go in the future - however one must realize that all comments for the good and for the bad can not be PROVEN at this point.
I know as a CEO - had I wanted this fixed I would have changed the cusip by now. But what if you know it wasn't shorted - changing the cusip would not do anything for the pps. Thus you delay - you have a plan in place - etc. etc. It wouldn't have been dilution to the share structure - but it could have been used to finance operations. THERE ARE NO FILINGS with a pink sheet stock.
Once the cusip is changed and the stock rises as a result - only then would we know.
Only time will tell - as I said I am long but I dont' have money invested that I can not afford to lose.
First off - I am long this stock. However - has anyone thought of perhaps the insider that sold was Val? In my conversations with the IR firm - he had stated that it was supposedly Euro investors that were unhappy with the merge - why would they be unhappy with it? Just a thought - not trying to bash - however everything has to be looked at upside down and sideways.
When the volume slows down, IF there are shorts it now will make it harder to cover. So imo, when the volume dies and CHDN leaves the ask it's time.
Well - generally mms do not dilute by hitting the bid and driving it down. Technically they sit on the ask soaking in the buys and do not move up or eventually they move the ask down and the buying continues. For the most part - this moves up easily on buying. Its my own opinion that it is not dilution but true selling of shares. Whether or not its the euro investors (as it was plural to me) are still bailing or chdn truly shorting is yet to be seen. However I do feel the stock will move up from here.
Hey all - I don't do much with penny stocks anymore - however this one did catch my eye. I called Weston this morning and had quite a discussion with them. According to him, CHDN is a trader with a license to be a market maker. They represent no one - just trades specifically for its benefit. I am working on verifying that information. So, os, float, etc. are still the same. I did talk to him regarding the Euro investors - there is more to the story than really posted here - however this stock was not really to start trading until this end of this month. The Euro investors started the ball rolling by selling their shares. Are they out of shares? That I don't know. They are pulling a NOBO list to see the change in the shareholders names - also to get a short count. In actuality he would like to see the volume dry up - as it would make it harder for CHDN to cover. Bottom line is that he feels as long as CHDN is sitting out there the stock will not go anywhere anytime soon. He stated that once he leaves - feel free to call him or TA and get a share count and it will be the same.
Seemed to be a pretty up front fellow - moreso than those I have talked to in the past. Anyways - just relaying the information that I have received - take it as you wish and always do you own dd.
BMCR starting to trend back up - very nice slow run here. 52m os not sure on float.
BMCS - nice flu news today - chart is solid and is holding the .10 break really nicely. Doesn't seem to be any dilution going on ...
BioTech Medics Announces Preliminary SHBAN Antiviral Solution H1N1 (Swine) Influenza A Testing Results
Still hanging tough - been shorting some of these big movers in the meantime. Nice to see it in the pattern it's in ..... one of these days. One thing I have never been in - is a stock that just one night tripled to the next day. This is one that could do that in my opinion on the right filing coming out. We can all dream.... lol.
CMGR - chart looking much better here - still waiting on the LOI news.
CMGR - 4th bottom .0032 - heading back up to hod.
Well for the record still here - it may take some time but the MORs still looking good. All it takes is sifting through the flippers. You will always have those that buy that expect it to explode today and then sell bid when it doesn't. However - that brings the shareholder base price up slowly and surely.
CMGR - 10q came out last nite - not a terrible amount of dilution at all - looks to be setting up for the LOI news that is coming. Chart starting to turn here - might keep an eye on it.
CMGR - working on green again......need that spread to close.
LFGRQ - still in from .07 avg. Looking pretty sweet on the chart for a .20 break.
CMGR - higher lows - looking pretty nice. News should be out soon regarding the Letters of Intent that were already sent out. We just need to break that .005 area.
Looking very nice today - still here lol. Just working. :(
CMGR just went green........