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I have no control over that if they follow the TOS and are on topic. ARM is a competitor of Intel and you have no trouble detailing perceived ARM deficiencies ad infinitum so you should not be really surprised if your opinion is countered. Now please, no more posts on this subject as really, truly, no serious moderator is going to start censoring posts on the ridiculous notion that they are too pro ARM !
p.s. please use the term fan rather than fanbois (or variation) in future as the latter has derogatory undertones.
Every poster is allowed to have a point of view whether you agree with it or not. You also have the option to ignore them either virtually or physically. I think your fundamental problem is you just can't stand a dissenting viewpoint radically different from yours. That is not this board's problem.
To me, there is little doubt that these two will be the major force pushing TSMC 20nm into volume production, and potentially the two that help TSMC to push 16nm into volume production. It's really a huge amount of leverage. The process needs large customers to push volumes and lower costs. With these large customers, everyone will benefit - and without them, everyone will lose.
You don't really think people buy Apple based on whether the chip is 20nm or not, do you?
These are pretty clear personal attacks. If you can't see it, then I can't really help you.
This is not an Intel fan board. This is a board where the pros and cons of buying, holding or selling INTC can be debated civilly. I hope I have cleared any misconceptions up.
High cost per wafer, long design cycles may delay 20nm and beyond
http://electroiq.com/petes-posts/2014/01/22/high-cost-per-wafer-long-design-cycles-may-delay-20nm-and-beyond/
Worth repeating:
“We think 20nm, if it does go into volume production, it will not be in 2014. Potentially 2015 and maybe 2016,” he said."
I had high hopes for this board when I first came here as being a much improved version of the Yahoo Intel board with a lot of the repetitiveness and ugliness removed. It is much better on those counts but this board nonetheless has its own set of problems that leave me substantially disappointed.
The board might more reliably be called the anti-INTC board as the negative Intel crowd substantially outnumbers the pro-Intel crowd. The negative Intel posters are obviously the pro-ARM crowd. My question is why do these people need to hang out here. If they are big on ARM that's fine. But let them go to the ARM board to express those feelings. It's like if you are a Red Sox fan going to Yankee stadium to express your support for the Sox. There is something in your face about that that is just not right.
The board is also substantially overwhelmed by the postings of a few of the ARM fans. A huge percentage of today's posts came from fpg, Andy Grave and Ash. As such an Intel fan can only feel like an intruder on the Intel board.
Now some people might say that it's improper to classify Ash as an ARM fan as opposed to an Intel fan. But Ash now flips into his highly emotional Intel rants often enough that I don't think anyone really will ever think of him as an Intel fan again. This is why he was subjected to such a heavy level of bile and venom on the Yahoo Intel board that he felt compelled to leave. While most all of this was grossly undeserved, one still has to recognize the frustration that was caused by how violently he sometimes bounced back and forth in his pro/con relationship with Intel and how betrayed a lot of Intel fans felt because of this behavior.
Ash has somehow become the sacred cow of the iHub INTC board. If you don't handle your criticism of his bounces very carefully then you get a ball bat used on your sensitivities. I just don't know that the standards are being applied equitably in both directions. And for a moderator to be deleting posts of people he is arguing with is just not right. Those decisions should always be made by a moderator not directly involved.
I'm also troubled by this "no personal attacks" methodology that has been established and how it is managed.
So, if someone posts an outright lie and you call that person a liar, then the person posting the lie is deemed to be the person needing protection and the person addressing that is deemed to be the offending party who needs counseling and maybe the boot.
Really? Do we really need to protect the liars?
The same thing could be said for distortions.
A higher standard might be to not allow "unwarranted personal attacks". Frankly, there are some posts that are being made on here that deserve personal attacks because they are intellectually dishonest to an extreme degree. How do you tell someone that they have done something intellectually dishonest without it being personal?
A number of posters have figured out how to be extremely offensive in a way that avoids the personal attack standard. And that is apparently not a problem in terms of board behavior. So, you can totally trash talk Intel without repercussions.
The bottom line for me is that I don't really want to hang out on the ARM board and that is what this has pretty much become. In fact I am pretty irritated over the subversion of this board by the ARM contingent and I find it extremely offensive.
I'm pretty sure that if I went to the ARM board and engaged in the behavior that the ARM fanbois do here that it would get people pretty excited.
I think these developments have made this board dysfunctional. There are less and less reasons every day for any Intel fan to come here to discuss matters. I guess I'm being silly in thinking that this should be a safe and comfortable place for Intel fans to hang out. It's not.
Now, wallisweaver, I am done with you. I am putting you on my ignore list, so please don't bother responding to anything else. You, unfortunately, have made it clear that you wish to attack me.
I'd just like to say THANK YOU, walbert, for watching over us and letting us know what to read and not read, post and not post, who the best posters, the traitors, and the trolls are.
You provide a valuable service for everyone, who apparently can't decide these things for themselves.
If only there were more folks like you who can sift through all this "garbage" all day long without wilting like a plucked dandilion at the slightest perceived offense to let us know who and what are worthy of attention.
Keep up the good work!
I think you need to stop, wallis. mas, I'm sure, will vouch to the fact that those posts were filled with personal attacks. Not disagreement - but outright personal insults.
wallisweaver, you really need to stop trolling me.
Please don't post Nenni's garbage here.
I would like the moderators to go through this process without asking flumoxed to "request" this being done. If such deletion is unwarranted, asking him to "request a review" is adding insult to injury.
With all due respect (and I highly respect both of you, RGood and mas), what kinds of smartphones have you used?
and a solid multi-year path for growth
I think the only chink Intel can exploit right now is the fact that the ARMy is interested in selling their chips at a profit.
If a year ago, someone had told me that highly technical types on this board would be trashing Intel and suggesting that they are circling the drain in the same quarter where they were beginning 14nm FinFET volume production, I just wouldn't have believed it.
In fact, I still can't believe it. 14nm FinFET production is a benchmark achievement in the industry. Somebody here has lost his mind. It ain't me. I know a benchmark achievement when I see one.
Quote:
So, once again I'll ask: What do you think a high-volume IoT product looks like?
Probably like the ones that Intel demo'd at CES using ARM
ARM is REALLY good at low power, small-die-size micro-controllers. Understand thy competition, fellow Intel shareholder. There are things that ARM is just damn good at.
and there are laws on the books to prevent that kind of behavior..and any number of govt bureaucrats worldwide who are more than eager to take a giant American tech company down a few notches.
wbmw, it's nice, but who cares? The high end was never the problem for PCs, as we have heard on the call and at various conferences. It's the mainstream/low end.
Quote:
Intel is likely to flood the Asian markets with cheap tablet chips.
Too late.
Didn't read the articles..but if I'm Google and thinking of using "contra-revenue" Bay Trails in the Nexus 8..I have to be concerned that any number of foreign governments (who are typically very protective of their domestic semiconductor industries) will view that as dumping and have my tablets seized. In the US of course, you are risking a visit from the DOJ.
As long as X86 is relegated to no-name Chinese designs, developers will not have incentive to make sure their apps are X86 friendly. But if Intel wins a Nexus? Holy cow, no developer is going to want their apps to not run smoothly on a FLAGSHIP GOOGLE OFFICIAL device!
Say in 6 months they played the ARM PC and server cards at the same time.
I think aeassa's description of the Quark is an accurate one. He writes articles and likes a nice headline so he will describe things in graphic terms. It is not a personal attack. Even if the designers of the chip feel annoyed as I guess they very well might be it is still not a personal attack on them. The appropriate response for them would be to explain what it is good for or do a better design. I can see it selling quite well to all those people who have stuck small x86 boards into industrial processes so it does something okay but I wouldn't feel comfortable standing up on a stage saying it was a competitor to ARM in new markets.
"bloated pig" was used to describe an inanimate object and "sucker" was used in a generic 3rd person term but was not aimed at a poster here so neither are personal attacks as defined by the TOS. Having now made that crystal clear can we please stop this off-topic thread branch ?
"....Then with respect to 20 nanometer materiality, it’s a year out, I mean if it’s supposed to be handicapping over under a year, it’s a year out,
The capital "A" following the "etc." indicates you're on a mobile device. The content indicates you may be... In a bar?
I've definitely heard whispers of yield problems with 14nm SoC
A comment from the parent post's link: (Take it or leave it...)
Take it or leave it...
So you are saying that if I say Intel hasn't made any decent mobile SoCs you will take that as a personal attack?
Whom did I attack personally?
But I'm just an investor who wants Intel to make money, not a fanboy.
@ flumoxed2012 - you need to watch the personal attacks. You are stepping far out of bounds with your posts.
Quote:
The chorus on Intel's impending mobile dominance is getting muted to my ears.
- Wait for Intel's 32nm SOC process...
- Wait for Bay Trail...
- Wait for Merrifield...
- Wait for Cherry Trail...
- Wait for Broxton...
I sold half my shares already, on the hope that they can at least solve the problems that they have historically been good at solving - on the process and architecture side. I'm still not convinced they know how to solve the problems on the business side.
No announced customers... No foreseeable revenue from 20nm...
Huge companies fighting over expensive 20nm capacity...
Not enough capacity... Spending too much on new capacity...
My neck hurts!
Apple gets what it wants.
Give these guys credit for running a good business.