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Ha! I definitely couldn't eliminate that possibility, nevertheless I still want to know the status of those patents.
Antro, probably the assets that the exchange note agreements didn't seize, which I would guess are the patents relating for the most part to the ADS, formerly held by 4Js. Remember Ants officially announced the return of the ADS from 4Js on about the same day they were delisted (or at least suspended from trading). 4Js was adamant they no longer held the patents (I spoke with someone) but the patent site showed no change of ownership. I haven't checked lately. I find it hard to believe they're worthless. Remember the Zumwalt.
Here's the link to the patent information.
http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=pat&qt=asnr&reel=&frame=&pat=&pub=&intn=&asnr=Ants+software&asnri=&asne=&asnei=&asns=
Here's the last assignee for, I believe 7 patents assigned to 4Js but according to 4Js they no longer own the ADS so the patents should not be in their possession...right????? Any patent attorneys out there? Remember, Ants acquired the ADS(and patents?) well after the exchange note agreement and collapse so shareholders should still have rights here. On the other hand we have no knowledge of where the money? came from to purchase the ADS back, so debt could be involved, and we all know where shareholders stand relative to debt holders. And of course the ADS and patents could be totally worthless, but too many intelligent people were involved with this( and remember the Zumwalt) for me to believe that yet.
Assignee:
FOUR J'S DEVELOPMENT TOOLS, INC.
251 O'CONNOR RIDGE BLVD.
SUITE 125
IRVING, TEXAS 75038
Correspondent:
COOLEY GODWARD KRONISH LLP, PATENT GROUP
777 6TH STREET NW
SUITE 1100
WASHINGTON, DC 20001
Here's the last patent assignment of the few that Ants held during the collapse, and one of at least two that were part of the exchange note settlement, which I believe is why Wells Fargo is involved. Somebody needs to contact the correspondent for some possible insight, although my guess would be the exchange note holders legally seized the assets.
Reel/Frame:
026088/0088 Recorded: 04/07/2011 Pages: 38
Conveyance:
SECURITY AGREEMENT
Assignor:
ANTS SOFTWARE INC.
Exec Dt:
03/03/2011
Assignee:
WELLS FARGO BANK, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
45 BROADWAY, 14TH FLOOR
NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10006
Correspondent:
CARL E. JENNISON
2001 JEFFERSON DAVIS HWY., SUITE 1102
ARLINGTON, VA 22202
A blast from the past:
https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/20523.wss
I sure would like to know if the ADS software or whatever it might be that they're calling it now is still being utilized. If the answer is yes, that makes me all the more curious about it's current status.
Not sure what good it would do. The ACS from all appearances failed in the marketplace, though I'm not sure of exactly what went wrong. Had IBM not done their due diligence before putting it inside their hardware? And then when Ants tried to sell it(read the exchange note agreements) the expected buyer never materialized, and this for all practical purposes put the assets of the company in the hands of JGB, SamLLC, and Manchester. The ADS was bought back long after this transpired, so I don't see how the exchange note holders would have rights to it, but whether it has value(along with several patents) is an open question. Remember, this was/is the database software used on the Zumwalt destroyer. The problem is we (at least I) have no idea where it is. 4Js was emphatic in saying they no longer own it.
Thanks Antro. March 2nd, huh. So a license for selling the ACS is geographic specific??? Is it just me or does adding Provo seem unnecessary? In as much as it would be possible to obtain a license, I just don't believe he/they got one.
I do find it interesting that they list the MSFT and Ingres products. On a Ants conference call years ago Joe mentioned that their next product would be a MSFT to IBM migration tool and this was because the coding would be easier given the MSFT database was based in part on Sybase's product, and of course Sybase to IBM was our first migration tool. On the other hand, this is at odds with the good doctors claim that his new ACS, the so called AAA was universally compatible. Where's Oracle?
It's entirely possible that Rik (and partners?) has possession of the ADS and associated patents. As far as selling it, I'm guessing you keep a constant watch on renowned data server for any articles/ contracts that might appear, so my guess is none at this point. Back when all this was going down I received a copy of an email that supposedly came from Rik, and my interpretation of it led me to believe Rik may have put up the money for the purchase. It was definitely open to interpretation. But....even if Rik put up the money, he was operating as the CEO of a public company, and though we apparently didn't officially own it until the press release, the ADS had been on the Ants website for quite a while, and investors were buying the stock with that information in mind. My point is, we(shareholders) have rights toward any value the product might have.
As far as the good Dr. having a license to market the ACS, I wasn't aware he had one. And from what I've seen so far, why should I be surprised;) Since Wells Fargo is the last assignee of certain patents relating to the ACS, maybe things haven't been finalized regarding the defaultation(word?) of the exchange notes involving Manchester, Sam LLC, and JGB. And the patent covering the ACS listing Joe Kozak as inventor has yet to be issued as near as I can tell.
I doubt they put up any money, but who knows. If I remember correctly, they(IBM) were part of the Zumwalt contract. I believe Ants sold the ADS to 4Js for 3.5 million and it probably cost a lot less to buy it back. The applicable patents show no assignee post 4Js in 2008. Several of the others were assigned to Wells Fargo in 2011 and that is likely related to the exchange note agreement which gave the note holders the right to the assets under default conditions.
http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/q?db=pat&qt=asnr&reel=&frame=&pat=&pub=&asnr=Ants+software&asnri=&asne=&asnei=&asns=
Where did the money come from to purchase the ADS? Ants was in debt up to their eyeballs. Where is the ADS, and where are the associated patents?
Rik, where is the ADS? 4Js say they no longer own it (Genero DB) and that it was sold to Ants. Did it disappear into thin air? Is the Zumwalt still using it? Who's supporting that contract? Is the product worth nothing?(along with the patents, some of which are being used in the ACS)
I think somebody pointed out that the offer wasn't extended to the institutional holders, and if that was so he couldn't gain a majority of shares, so his ownership issues(or lack thereof - in my opinion) likely couldn't be solved. What really bugs me is the status of the ADS and associated patents. Are those worth anything? Have newer developments passed them by? Is the software still being used on the Zumwalt destroyer?
http://www.taborcommunications.com/archives/18161.html
I don't trust him. Think back to all that stuff on the CEO corner. At best it was wildly optimistic. At worst..... :( Now as far as I'm concerned, if he has the source code to the ACS, he possesses it illegally. But what makes him think he can make a profit with it when Ants apparently couldn't. And why do the exchange note holders appear to have no interest as well. And if you want to call somebody that's another group that surely knows more than most. I still don't know why the ACS failed. Bad software design?(IBM put this inside one of their products - did they not do due diligence?). Was the product not a compelling enough proposition? I sure would like to know exactly what happened. Anyway, if Frank could gain a majority of shares through this offer, might that not solve his ownership issues? AND WHERE IS THE ADS!?!?!? 4j's didn't return my email. Somebody else try.
You have a point about other buyers for the ADS. But on the other hand the Navy contract. It's just frustrating not knowing who controls it at the moment. 4Js didn't return my email.
I put in a SEC complaint about the "Constantine" post at the time, but apparently to no avail. Message boards are the wild west and if the SEC tried to properly enforce them half the planet would be employed by the SEC.
Here is the "Constantine" post that freaked a lot of people out.
Re: None
Post # of 20281
ANTS IS APARRENTLY IN FINAL AND IMMEDIATE DEATH THROES
As a major certificate shareholder of record of ANTs Software Inc. all material in this post are from PUBLIC RECORDS, COURT RECORDS, as identified, and EDGAR SEC postings.
A. Contact the Delaware Secretary of State for ANTs drop dead date of March 1, 2012 unless $400K in franchise tax fees are paid. Unless these franchise fees are paid by that date, ANTs as a corporation will cease to exist! If that occurs, ANTs will be delisted by the SEC.[Call the SEC and verify.]
B. Gemini, Ironridge [Ironridge has a Federal Court judgment against ANTs in New York], Fletcher et. al., Sybase, California Class action suits final Judgments, [attorney fees,$2.5 million attorney fees for Sybase lawsuit], JGB [EDGAR]$9.75 million and HOLD OWNERSHIP OF ALL ANTs Softwarem etc, and ANTs is currently in default!], Ex parte filings in California for California suits and judgments effectively shutdown use of funds or monies by ANTs until at least $2.5 million has been paid! Furthermore, Ironridge has a Federal Court judgment against ANTs in New York!
C. ANTs has NO PATENTS - all were sold to FOUR J's! ANTs does not own the ACS, JGB does [EDGAR].
D. Speaking directly with Dr. Kautzmann, shareholder to shareholder, after the November 13, 2012 SEC 8K filings, regarding the AAA architecture; he owns the AAA which has NO connection with the ACS architecure. He could license the AAA to ANTs on favorable terms but that would require funds.
E. All ANTs shareholders should do RESEARCH of historical and current EDGAR SEC filings and all Court filings and judgments in California, Atlanta and New York.
F. Apparently, ANTs lacks the funds for even a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy reorganizational filing and JGB controls that or a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy liquidation filing, which would result in immediate delisting and suspension of ANTs stock.
The conclusions in this post are obvious - ANTs is in immediate death throes from lack of funds, lawsuits, judgments, DTCC, almost two year old SEC filings, infrastructure and action by senior debt holder [JGB] or others, etc.
Maybe Rik wasn't the right man, but he was probably the right man for selling the ADS. I believe he rejoined Ants after he phoned Kautzmann inquiring about Joe. Believe me, there's no love lost between those two. Another thing about the ADS. Why would the Navy decide to use it on a state of the art vessel if it had problems? And this, according to an article, is with Oracle using lobbyist pressure to try and change their decision. I know I'm hung up on this point, but I saw a glimmer of hope with the return of the ADS and just want to understand the why's and what's, etc.
I agree, Frank wishing for the demise of Ants only appears to make sense if he eventually controls the technology, but.....what possibly made him think he could get away with this?
I don't trust Joe on this. Have you talked to more than a few of the engineers involved? Rik says that more of the ADS was sold than shareholders were ever aware, and several contracts were canceled by Ants. Just look at the patent with his(Joe's) name on it. That smacks of an ego project. Talk to Rik about this. Rik's right hand man was a guy that gave a year of his life to missionary work in Africa. That's reason enough to strongly consider his credibility.
It sure sounds as if Kautzmann wanted the product for himself, but.......how could he be sure he would end up with it in the event of the company's demise?
Got it(email). The exchange note holders(JGB, Manchester, and SamLLC if memory serves), held the assets of the company as collateral in the event of a default, so I don't know if a bankruptcy would be necessary for them to seize the assets, but if they were working with Kautzmann, it would surely have gone to JGB and Co. first and not directly to Kautzmann. I had postulated this as a possibility on the Ants board, but find it highly unlikely. The central question in all this is the value (or lack thereof) of the ACS. And a monkey wrench here is that to the best of my knowledge the patent(which is in Kozak's name) has yet to be issued.
I have no technical expertise in this area, but always thought that using the ACS in part to sell the ADS with it's former best salesman held out interesting possibilities. Code a version of the ACS specifically for the ADS which might be an excellent fit given their overlapping technologies. Am I completely off base here?
Burnt, if there's any value in the ACS and it was properly placed in the hands of shareholders, would JGB and company still be first in line, to the tune of about $40 million if memory serves? Why did JGB, etc. not go after Frank? Didn't think it worth the effort? Is that why Rik from all appearances bailed? No source code? Or a complete lack of interest in the product from buyers? Was it Rik's intention to use the ACS to sell the ADS, and is that an idea that might have worked? I take it those posts on the Ants board with Constantine's name in them were Frank? I'm not an Ihub member,so I can't PM you, but if you're so inclined please send me one with some type of contact information.
I undertstand the ACS is the migration product, but...the ADS was on Ants website for at least a month(along with the ACS), before a press release came out stating 4Js had officially sold it back to us. The very same day Ants was delisted. I'm very curious as to the current ownership. I have a reason to at least entertain the notion that Rik put up the money, but the likely scenario was a payment plan. Frank wrote some things early on about the Navy contract(ADS), but it was probably stuff from our history thrown out to make us look good. To the best of your knowledge is the so called AAA real? If not, then that meeting he supposedly had with Don Haderle was a lie???
In communicating with Frank several years ago I accidentally received an email with several names associated with it, which I forwarded to Rik & Sarna after I became convinced Frank was a problem. Is LS from Illinois part of your group? Documents from IBM show no current interest in the ACS. Does this have anything to do with the current state of ownership? Do you know what happened to the ADS? A lot of questions, but it's extremely frustrating to lose your investment and not know what really happened. Is the co-founder of the company part of your group? Never gave any money to Frank. Too much invested in Ants already, and those "contacts" didn't look real sure.
I dunno Lio. I emailed 4Js to see if they still had it and got no response, but as I wrote in that post, the patents appear not to have been re-assigned. This is one big confusing mess. I'm watching the controversy on the GTSM board unfold. 2 things to keep in mind regarding the ACS. The patent, which is assigned to Kozak has not yet been granted, and the exchange note holders will probably be first in line for any assets of the company.
I think Fletcher is in just as poor shape as we are, unless they did some sort of hedging on the way down, or had inside information and bought massively when Ants was at a bottom and then sold, which seems unlikely to me as their ownership is percentage capped, plus nothing ever showed up in their(Fletcher's) filings, and it would have required a huge amount of shares to do any real good.
On Raging Bull I noticed the 15 million judgement against Ants from back in July. I remember Peterson's name from a lawsuit previously mentioned. Malikin was one of the lead developers of the ADS. Now we all know Ants doesn't have 15 million. Is this where the ADS went? Last I looked, the associated patents still showed as being assigned to 4J's. And we don't even know how it was re-acquired in the first place. Did Rik put up the money?
http://www.bizjournals.com/search?q=%22ANTs+Software+Inc.%22
Pretty sure it is. From the article:
" SQL Skin is a layer between the Sybase application and the DB2 engine, in which the Sybase syntax is transformed in DB2 syntax and where the representation of output data can be transformed on the way back to the application."
Further down:
"The estimates from the MEET DB2 tool were especially reliable for Oracle migrations. What I have witnessed myself is that using the SQL Skin layer can be successful in case you want to retire a Sybase application, but implementations in an agile environment are less successful due to the fact that there is not much harmony between developing in Sybase and seizing the benefits from the latest native DB2 features. It really becomes a nightmare if you want to mix procedures and triggers written in T-SQL with those natively written for DB2 in PL/SQL and have them interact. The SQL Skin layer is out of marketing and is deprecated in DataStudio 3.2."
Sounds like they kinda frown on it's usage in 3.2. Who knows how to interpret this? It's looking more and more like it just failed in the marketplace. IBM throws a lot of spaghetti against the wall. Some of it sticks, some doesn't. If it is indeed a failure our only possible hope lies with the ADS. And as everybody knows, that was Rik's baby.
Jeff is just being a gentleman. Joe decided to focus on the ACS to make a better? faster growing? bigger? who knows? company and Rik left. I get the feeling there's no love lost between those two. I revisited the patent site and if you look on the patent application the inventor of the ACS is listed as Joe Kozak. Ego issues just may have played a part here, but that's not unusual. Some of the patents show being assigned to Wells Fargo(Manchester & Co.'s representative for the exchange notes) in early 2011 when that agreement was filed. They're in control of the ACS side of things now, but what they decide to do is anybody's guess. The only problem is that Joe's ACS patent isn't issued yet(pending?). Seven patents were assigned to 4js, but none of them show being assigned back to Ants or anyone else that I noticed. So it appears at the moment 4js still controls the ADS. Ants retained at least one of the Sullivan patents and that was also assigned to Wells Fargo as an asset of the company. Could that throw a monkey wrench into the ADS plans? Someone with more experience than I needs to look at this. If we get anything out of here it will be a miracle nevertheless, all these unknowns bug me.
There very well may be no hope, but not for any of the reasons you mentioned. The ACS is being pushed by Doc on the RDI site. It's possible that it's the original ACS still tied to Ants, possible that it's the so-called AAA, possible that it's the original product and the debt holders seized the assets and put it in Doc's hands. We don't know. And we have no idea of the ADS status, just that it was officially acquired the same day we got delisted in spite of it having been on the website for weeks/months. If the Navy is using it(show me otherwise) in a state of the art implementation this has some value to somebody. Who has the rights to it besides shareholders? How was it's purchase managed? Did Rik put up the money? Way too many unanswered questions at the moment.
We've already gone over the possible problems when the ACS appeared on the RDI site, principally the possibility that this ACS could be the so called AAA, and Doc feels he owns it completely and owes nothing to Ants. I hope this is not the case. My bet is that even if this is the AAA the changes were not sufficient to make it an independent product from the ACS, and there's the fact it would have been developed while he was an employee of Ants. It doesn't matter that he may have funded much of this. There were shareholders( and the possible fly in the ointment - debt holders) involved. Now where is the ADS?!?!?!?!???
Someone mentioned the CEO's corner. Do you have a link for this?
Thanks Antro. I haven't been watching closely, so after looking again at Doc's Linkedin page where it says "June 2012 to present" for Ants, do you or anybody else know if it has always been that way. In other words, was there a time(after June 2012 obviously)
when he wasn't listed as presently CEO for Ants? And then it changed to what's currently listed?
I think I just answered most of my own question. I now see the two Ants entries. One for California/Georgia, and the other for Houston. When was the Houston entry added?
Antro, is this speculation from already known information, or is there something else unconfirmed out there? When I was trying to communicate with Ants towards the end, they didn't believe the so called AAA (Doc's creation) was real. Then towards the very last they changed their tune and basically said they weren't sure. I still have a hard time believing that anything completely universally compatible was created, but maybe partly universal. Frank clearly is a very smart guy, and has some history to back that up, but I think he may have a bit of an ego problem, with a tendency to talk too much( when I say that I'm taking the view that he was sincere as Ants CEO, as there is an alternate viewpoint). I also got a differing view about the ACS's compatibility from Rick than what Joe had led us to believe. I realize with my information (or lack there-of) I may not be asking the right questions, but frankly(-;)I don't know who to believe. What I do know is Southern California Edison(among many others) decided to use the ACS, and the US government(among many others) decided to use the ADS on a state of the art warship. Argh!!!!!
Acceptance is not a case of either/or, it's a matter of degree. Until I know the status of the ACS and in particular the ADS, I will still hold out hope. If possible, would I buy in? No way. But being curious about the status of the products and the ADS in particular, when a state of the art Navy vessel to the best of our knowledge is using it, seems reasonable. I couldn't immediately find the Fletcher filings, but one thing you must keep in mind is that BRG is a part of Fletcher. Together, if memory serves, they owned almost 10% of the company, although I believe part of that was in unexercised warrants/options. The initial fundraising with Fletcher was around a dollar, and the subsequent funding by Fletcher(BRG) was done in the mid fifty cent range. Of course, at that time we weren't close to 300 million outstanding. I totally agree about trusting people on message boards. Mostly just selfish cheerleading, but the outright manipulators are out there. Spotting them is the tricky part. They may be saying exactly what you want to hear. On the other hand, a good tip I recently ignored was HIIT in the teens
The company had a real relationship with IBM via both the ADS(partner for the DDG1000 contract) and the ACS. If it was a big setup, where are all the insider sells? Would the Navy or Southern California Edison be involved if the technology wasn't excellent( unfortunately, not always enough). And by extension, would a scam be interested in creating world class technology? Fletcher gained a greater position in the company contractually when the price declined, but there is no evidence they ever sold. It get's too conspiratorial for me to think Fletcher put millions into Ants and then played some sort of hedging game to come out ahead, but what do I know. I'm an unrepentant Ants investor
Well.....I sure hope that returns and eagerly(gulp...I think) await any news that might accompany the return. Happy Thanksgiving.
2008. Sure, things might have changed, but where's the evidence? Here's another article mentioning the competition with Oracle. I can't find the article or maybe I heard it from the company but Oracle supposedly used lobbyist pressure with the government and still lost.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9004516/Ants_wins_Navy_bid_over_Oracle
This is from the press release where 4 Js bought the ADS.
"As part of the multi-million dollar agreement, employees working on the ADS will join Four Js and current ADS customers will receive support from Four Js. Under the terms of the purchase, ANTs retains fifty percent of license and maintenance revenue from its reseller agreement with IBM® to supply the US Navy DDG1000 Destroyer program for a period of four years. ANTs will also retain unrestricted license rights to key ADS technologies that are utilized in the ANTs Compatibility Server."
If things went as planned, 4 Js no longer owns the ADS. Ants does.
During his tenure Frank also mentioned this agreement several times, but that was long before the press release stating Ants had bought back the ADS.
Good find Antro. I do remember. If you go to the website, http://www.renownedconsulting.com/, it sure looks like a strictly consulting outfit though. On the other hand, Linkedin currently shows Rik as CEO of Ants as well as chairman of renowned. Rik, if you read this, my best wishes for whatever it is you're trying to orchestrate behind the scenes. Please show us you're a man of integrity. You may be our last hope.
Good question.
The question is not whether Ants can do business, but who has rights to the technology, and that would be Manchester and Co., Constantin, and common shareholders, in that order as best I can tell( the ADS might not fall so heavily within Manchester et al's grasp because of when the exchange notes were agreed upon). I know it's not clear(and maybe unlikely) if Ants and RDI have a relationship of some sort, but I don't see where it's impossible given the information you just supplied. A third possibility would be that the Manchester group seized the ACS and are now working with Frank.
WHERE IS THE ADS?!?!!?!?!!!