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Just a "long" checking in to see what is new with WNBD. Of course it is obvious that the spiral downward seems to be near the very bottom. Anyway congrats to dennisb68 for his early tirade against this company and for proving himself right a long time ago. For all of us "longs" we, ... well, you know what happened to us. Regards to all!
Just a note from a long who understands we're at the end. For many of us, we saw the possibility and believed the company had a real chance to make it. Naturally it didn't happen and at times this board become almost toxic with the caustic comments of the disbelievers. But in the end, they were right. I know for me, it was the inability of the company to run an infomercial and break even on the costs that signaled the real failure of the company. It is one thing to understand how someone walking into a store and seeing the bottle and ignoring it because of lack of knowledge. But it is an entirely different situation when the company crafts a television spot designed to display the virtues of the product and can't make it happen.
So many people have left the board and yes, for all the longs, a great deal of money has been lost. It is a solemn ending for many of us no matter what happens now. T'is a pity, but let me say hello to other longs who probably check in every once in a while to hope that the impossible has happened. It didn't and it won't. Best wishes to All!
I have to agree. In my opinion, everything became quite clear when the company was doing the short infomercials and could not sell enough product to cover costs. It is this failure to provide a clear marketing process to sell product to consumers who otherwise don't know anything about this product. I actually realized this several years ago when walking down an aisle in Michael's and saw a small bottle of "granny's stain remover". I realized I would never buy it because I didn't know anything about it.
It is unfortunate, but the only way the company will probably have success is to create that public recognition that the product needs to be in their homes. And since there is no money for such an approach, we will continue to stock shelves for consumers who have no clue why they should ever try it.
This is just a note from a long who has now watched this mess for many years. For me, WNBD was a calculated gamble on a company that looked like it had the management and products to do something significant in the market place. Of course it hasn't happened and with years of expenses surpassing income has meant the stock float has now reached a ridiculous number. It can't go on. Naturally there is a sad feeling about this, but I don't really condone the tone of the discussion on this board very much anymore. It is so often of no value and seems to prefer the gutter.
I suspect that the end is near in some fashion. And maybe those of you so anxious for a management change will get your wish. But you'll probably regret it because any new management will cut loose this share volume and you'll see a reverse split of epic proportions. And that will just be the start.
Our CEO has failed the company and its shareholders. There is no doubt about it. I have even said in my few posts that the failure of the company to create an infomercial that pay for itself is a clear signal that they have not solved the primary challenge of finding a way to entice enough of the public to buy the product. It doesn't matter how many stores you are in if people don't know the product. They just pass it by and then the store count begins the fade.
To those of you who have been here for many years, greetings! And for those of you thinking you are getting a great buy at .0004 to hold, well, ... my thoughts are just that WNBD has had its chance and all the energy and effort to promote and sell it has little to show for it. I would be amazed to see any significant positive results. Regards to All.
I would have done this as a private post had I the choice, but as a free subscriber, I guess it has to be public. I'm a long with about a million shares here and I always felt that the company had a great chance to pull it off and get into the big time, but I can't say I feel that way anymore. The company has seemed to do many things right, but the failure of the DRTV campaign was difficult to comprehend at first. I mean how could the company have a chance to tell their story to consumers and not make enough to pay for the ads? I really don't care how many stores we are in. I do care that you can get people to buy the product and want to buy the product, otherwise it is just a mystery item sitting on the shelf. Now there isn't enough money sitting around to redo the DRTV campaign and solve the problem. But all of the problems that the company has could be solved if you can make a DRTV campaign successful. People get familiar with it, understand why it is good, and will buy it later if they see it during their other shopping experiences.
Like I said, I don't have much confidence anymore that the company can make something successful that will reward me for my patience. I am sure that was an intent for us longs, but time and money limitations have overcome that goal. I believe we're expendable in one way or another. So while I have liked the company story, my years in this stock suggest to me that things are not likely to significantly change for the better anytime soon.
Sorry for the late response. I just don't check the board very often.
Regards,
Brolay
This board has undergone a lot of changes over time. Tom Graham a few years ago was advising people to hang on for a year or two to see that magical dollar per share figure. Rocket was here as a firm believer in where this company was going. And Scup, the faithful, was packing away more and more shares whenever he wasn't making more videos of the power of the product. Now the board seems overrun by the cynics and the angry. Yes, for us longs, there hasn't been good times in quite a while. I always knew this was going to be a big risk with a great payoff if it ever took off. It hasn't and I don't have much faith in it happening anymore. In my mind, to be successful, the company has to be able to tell their story and get people buying product. But that effort was not successful in the TV infomercial campaign. So what is going to work? I guess I just don't have much faith now that the company can be successful if they have an opportunity to tell their story and can't get enough consumers to buy the product. Of course I wish this wasn't the case.
If ever there was a product that needed a strong social media effort, this is it. It is here that the product has a chance to be endorsed and promoted. Some of the best marketers in the world would remind the company to identify the product's unique selling point and promote it strongly. There is a lot of noise in this crowded field of products and Winning Colours needs to be given a strong voice. To all the quiet longs, I say hello. And to all the faithful bashers out there, I wish you would be a little more reflective and balanced in your virile attacks on the company. Regards to all.
It has been some time since I posted and I thought I would say hello to everyone from a "long" who has been "long" too long. Yes, for those of us who have been this stock for a very long time, it is rather depressing to see what has happened to it. I am not particularly fond of CEO bashing and there is so much of that going on here, but it does seem to be a fair point that stock promotion seems reasonable under the circumstances we find ourselves.
I think I always seem to go back to one point that troubles me the most. It is the failure of the DRTV commercials. In simple terms, the company had an opportunity to tell their story in such a way to cause consumers to take action. And they couldn't, at least with enough success to sustain it. And if you can't do that, ... if you can't tell you story and get people to respond, how in the world could you possibly do it by putting product on the shelf for the consumer to take action. I know that Dennis often bashes the number of locations it is being sold saying something like An average of 10 dollars per location is not interesting. And it would have been solved if that DRTV campaign had demonstrated that it could sustain itself. But it didn't and I tend to think that this spiraling downward price is going to have a very difficult task to change substantially. And that is coming from a long with lots of stock becoming almost worthless. Yes, I wish it wasn't so.
But I think all of us would be better served with less bashing of the CEO here. Who is this helping? I can tell you that it certainly does an excellent job of sending any prospective investor to other places which helps none of us.
Sure, lots of unhappy investors here. But I think in the end that Eric made a lot of good moves with the companies he associated with and the direction he was moving. Clearly we need something different than the approach that has taken us to this point. But with little money to market, opportunities are limited.
I think I would say we don't need more stores (not that this is bad) but we do need to increase sales per store by a lot or find a DRTV solution that promotes the product successfully.
Good luck to all.
For those of us that have been long in this stock for years, it is a great disappointment what has failed to happen. Clearly things cannot be staying in their current condition for very long. I think for myself, the inability of the company to mount a successful DRTV campaign was the keystone moment. The company had a chance to tell the public the product's story but was unable to convert enough public sentiment into buying it. How can anyone expect that people will then buy it in sufficient quantities when it is an unknown item sitting on a shelf? Clearly doing more of the same thing is not going to give us different results and time is now working against the company and the shareholders. I'm attending a meeting next month where Jay Abraham will be. If I can, I am going to bring this company up. He is basically retired now but his advice is always well worth listening to. For all of my fellow longs who have been here for years, I send greetings and best wishes. It seems we are going to need a lot of luck now for something really positive to happen here.
Just some thoughts on current and future events.
I've said before that I don't post often but I do try to read what is happening on the board. There doesn't seem to be a lot to be optimistic about, ... at least in the near term. And I would like to make clear that I am long, have been for years, and don't expect to make any change in my position. I like the product and I like our CEO. But I do have some thoughts about the future.
First, I really don't care if we open up a lot more accounts. Oh, I know it sounds great, but the real issue is velocity of sales and it is pretty hard to achieve for a product that nobody has experience with. In fact, I was most interested in the DRTV campaign precisely because it would solve that recognition problem that the consumer would want to try it based on visibility from the commercials. It really could have opened the doors to more accounts. And people are likely to buy something they have seen advertised especially when it is so versatile as Winning Colours.
But it seems that campaign failed.
Secondly, what we don't want to happen is to get into accounts and become a mediocre product. By that, I mean one with timid sales. That can lead to a death spiral implosion where accounts have no conviction to stay with the product. After all, stores have a healthy need to stock products that sell well. I don't think I am saying anything new here. Eric could probably talk about this process for hours given the opportunity. But the truth is I really don't want hours of discussion.
In any young business, the danger is balancing the efficient and the effective. We usually say that efficiency is "doing things right" and effectiveness is "doing the right things". If ever there was a time to reflect on that point, I think it is now.
I hope that our company can somehow get out of the immediate issues and pull up and deal with product recognition. Like I said, I liked the DRTV campaign because if successful, it probably would have solved our problem and then those accounts would really start to see some velocity of sales. Alas, we are not there. Sure, a viral video would be great. Maybe scup would volunteer to have a full set of clothing covered in every conceivable stain to include exposed body parts and have it and him washed in humorous ways that result in an amazingly clean set of clothes and Scup. Heck, I would volunteer myself if I thought it would go viral enough to make a difference.
Maybe what I am just trying to say is that it would be great if the company would work on the unexpected approach to help solve this product recognition problem. Probably all of us have a sensing that we missed some great opportunity with the BP Oil leak.
Has anyone dissected the Oxyclean approach. Is there something in their early commercials or marketing that we can point to as a turning point. Something that clearly made a difference to solve their problem. Are there other valid examples?
I hope someone (in the company) can begin to look beyond the efficient approach right now. We don't need a Hail Mary, but we do need some thinking out of the box!
It is very clear that the frustration level is very high at the moment. Reading some of these posts about how terrible Eric is seems uncomfortable to me. So let me just summarize my feelings about what is happening and what should happen.
It is very unusual to have a CEO take the time and clearly make the effort that Eric has done in trying to keep shareholders informed via this forum. After all, we want information in real time and while there are many complaints about the lack of a national account in the USA, I think Eric did the prudent action at the time in telling us the situation. It is unfortunate but the truth changes over time. Coordination with Lowe's probably was on track for inclusion of the Winning Colours product a long time ago, but internal decisions move at a pace that Winning Brands could not control. I think everyone intuitively understands this problem.
And yes, there are lots of other problems as well. Some people like to point out the low volume of sales per store. Others are complaining about the financials and yet, the company is making progress with product placement and doing many things that appear to be very sensible.
I am long on this stock so obviously I have a different perspective from flippers. And while I am extremely disappointed that we haven't hit that explosive growth period, I very much appreciate the challenges that exist here. Could Wal-Mart Canada have been saved? Probably, but at what cost? In all of these decisions, there is a balancing act involved and offering them a much larger discount would have discouraged other companies from competing with a larger entity that could offer the product at a much lower price.
Personally, I think our number one problem remains recognition and that is why I was very happy to see the DRTV campaign begin. The other day I was inside Michael's and saw these bottles of Grandma's Spot Remover there. I didn't know anything about the product and I am sure everyone else is in the same boat. And our perspective customers have the same issue when they see Winning Colours on local shelves. We need to solve that problem and then sales per store will begin to change. People aren't looking for it because they don't really know about it. And Winning Brands knows about this problem and they are working on it. They are working with leaders in the DRTV arena and will likely find the solution where dollars going into advertising are creating enough dollars in profit to sustain the campaign. In my opinion, this is the keystone to the entire business. Otherwise, we will always see product sitting on the shelf because nobody knows if it is any good or what it can do.
And for what it is worth, some of the posters could certainly show a little more class in what they are saying. Less personal attacks and more focus on the problem in a substantive manner. I don't read them daily but I would imagine that having to traverse that type of writing on a daily basis must be depressing.
Everyone is looking forward to the news from the conference and I hope we gain some constructive perspectives that can be shared with everyone.
Regards!
Brolay
I am one of those "long" guys that has seen WNBD as a real opportunity that made sense and for years I have waited patiently for things to get moving. And probably like everyone else, I have been amazed at how long it is taking to get momentum. The article that ChargnBull has posted here reminds me that the issue is not so much getting into this account or that account. It is really recognition by the consumer that Winning Colours is a great product and they should be using it. I personally believe the DRTV campaign is vital to the company because it will drive awareness in a way that no other marketing can hope to achieve.
At the meeting this week, I hope Winning Brands is pushing that point home to everyone. That they will mount a successful DRTV campaign that will aid all retailers in their selling of the product.
There has been a great deal of disappointment about the speed at which we are moving and I feel it as much as anyone. But I still have great faith in management and believe we are very fortunate to have Eric running this for us. In my opinion he has been responsible, perceptive and is moving the company in the right direction. But I would urge all of us to think about the DRTV campaign and what can be done to make it work. This is the keystone of the marketing campaign in my opinion. Once it is successfully in place, we will see the type of positive results we all want.
I don't follow the forum here very closely because I am not changing my direction with this company anytime soon. I imagine I am like many of the "longs" on this board that have confidence in the products, company, and management.
Regards To All.
Brolay
I like the advertising idea and I especially like the connection to youtube because it can help to drive people to go there and see even more videos about the products. If there is one fault, it is that Scup is the mastermind behind so many. Somehow I think we will be better served with more videos from other people. Obviously the number of videos as well as the number of creators will impact the company.
I have to say that being long in WNBD for almost two years now has not always been fun. The flippers have probably done very well and especially those who have continued to add to their holdings by selling on the dips. But as a long, I remain very confident that this company is on the right track and we will have to wait for that critical mass of distribution channels and public awareness to kick in.
GLTA!
I think one of the things we can do is to comment on those items when we find them online. For example, I just left a comment at Kingsdiscount.com about the stain remover. If everyone did it, it will add a lot of credibility for those that are wondering if it is any good.
I recently went to see Winning Brands on display at a store in Orlando. It is a store for Artists and has the display rack of Winning Colours and Clean 1 set up as an endcap at the entrance to the store. A Winning Colours Display sign showing the white carpet with the blue paint in the middle having been cleaned was near the cash register. At first glance it seems about right and I did speak to one of the employees. People have been coming in specifically for Winning Colours and those are likely other members of this board that have posted here. The guy says they keep a bottle by the sink instead of soap because they are very happy at how well it works.
From a marketing perspective, I think everything is fine except that I am not sure why anyone would buy Clean 1. There is nothing to motivate anyone to do that as I recall. And maybe my biggest concern is that the company is running a great sweepstakes right now and there is nothing visible about it that I recall. And shouldn't there be? Wouldn't you want that very clearly visible to everyone to help promote impulse buying? I don't know if the same problem exists elsewhere, but I wish that it became more dominant by the rack so customers would stop and take another look at why they might want to buy it. I also wonder if the blue paint on the carpet is the best marketing display or if something showing multiple types of stains having been cleaned would be better. In some ways, I really liked Scup's video showing the 4 different stains being cleaned. Anyway, the company should be making sure the sweekpstakes notification is available as it will certainly help sales of an unknown product to most people.
Great Video from TH!
Probably like many, I rarely post here but often read. Scup's video have been remarkable for his bravery and I would not have imagined that the wood stain would come out of the carpet as TH demonstrated. I think all of these videos will be a great resource later and I also think it would be worthwhile for the company to begin thinking about how to take better advantage of them. This might be by paying someone cheaply through elance or similar site to create specific sites that could focus on single types of stain. Bring in a video demonstrating how easily it can be removed, allow comments from outsiders (like us) and tie it together with the professional commercial demonstrations and most importantly, a source locater where people can buy the products. I think everyone understand what Eric was saying when he said that getting product into accounts is really just the start of the process and a lot has to happen to really create awareness. And although I don't know if we are moving through .02 this week, I do believe the groundwork has been laid for an exciting couple of months ahead for all of us.
Hello All,
Just wanted to get some feedback. I'm long in WNBD and have used the stain remover. I can tell you that my wife does not care for it so much and believe me, we both have an obvious reason to want to like it. I think her problem is that she tried to remove a blood stain off of some pants and it didn't work. She tells me there is some other stain it didn't work on either. Anyway, I know that overall, Winning Colors and several other products have been well received. But I am wondering about the Kind laundry detergent. I know that TracMoist, Reguard, and WC seem to be great products, but I haven't really heard anything about the laundry detergent. My wife is a typical consumer who will use products she feels work well. Anybody have experience with Kind?
Just a quick question. I really didn't see much of a bump from the first conference call at the end of April. Is there some reason anyone is expecting this one to be different? If all news has to be really done by PR, isn't this just the CEO doing a great job of keeping investors informed?
Been Waiting A Long Time for WNBD to Move! Hi Everyone. Have had this stock for a long time now and it hasn't been a lot of fun over the past year being long, but this company seems to have the right mix of products of leaders to really make good things happen. I still have a ways to go to get back to where my last buy was made (.029) but things seem to be on track to get us back there soon.
Hi Everyone,
Been long in the stock for years now. Originally bought a bunch at .0004 I think. Kept buying waiting for that big box announcement. Great to see this stock moving. I really have faith they have a great product lineup and management!