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No
The only way to make money in Kannaway is to recruit a ton of people and get as many of them as possible to buy expensive product packs and try to sell them on a vision of making big money by doing the same. But I know when it's all said and done 80+% of the people buying into that dream will be paying out of pocket for it.
I'm not anti MLM, I'm anti bad MLM and my opinion of Kannaway isn't very favorable. I predict it will outlast MJNA's last MLM (The Hemp Network) but not much more than that.
I wonder if he's replacing Chris Hussey.
Rumors were that Hussey was fired recently, no verified word on why but a few mentions of his moving on in social media. He was the original "face" of the company doing most of their videos, perhaps Vest will cover some of that slack. Charles couldn't possibly be more annoying than Seth Fraser.
Google Trends Data
For "Kannaway" and "HempMedsPx" frequency of use as a search term:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=kannaway%2C%20Hempmedspx&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q
That's probably fairly irrelevant for HempMeds but the trend line for Kannaway is ominous. The number of people using Google to search for info about Kannaway is less than 1/4 of what it was a few months ago. This corresponds pretty directly to the number of views their YouTube vids are drawing.
Kannaway is not the growing viral phenomenon they'd like to pretend. They could have launched the company with a focus on product value and sustainable growth but instead they turned the hype up to 11 and have never stopped playing games with their comp plan.
Here's their problem, no one making any real money in the company is making it off of product sales to real customers. They make money by selling expensive product packs to newly recruited affiliates. Those new affiliates either need to find a sizable number of people to do likewise or they will lose money on the deal. The churn rate is very high in companies stacked like this and they need to recruit new people as fast or faster than they lose current affiliates. When they fail to do so you start seeing trend lines like the one I linked to above.
So You're Posting an Inference,
and not any direct knowledge. Cool, so we're both doing the same thing. How much attention do you pay to MLM companies Doc? I've seen dozens of them lose merchant processing accounts and almost none of them admit the real problem to the affiliate force at least until after the real reason comes out.
As to how I got a copy of the email, marketers don't know the first thing about comsec, it's sorta antithetical to their skill set.
I still submit that the closing of their bank account was not their choice. If someone was ripping them off and if the only way to stop it was to close the account they could have validated their currently issued but uncashed checks to avoid any payroll disruption. This of course assumes their bank is still willing to work with them.
That is perhaps not a safe assumption given the mention of soon to be implemented alternatives to how they process payments.
I could very well be wrong, but I doubt it. Kannaway is following the short term grip and rip MLM script closely enough and lying to their affiliates about enough other issues that I have a hard time believing they respect their field force too much to be other than honest with them about this.
First, I'd thank you for any primary source
information you have on this. Also, even if true there are easier ways to fix the problem than closing an account and leaving a bunch of affiliate checks out kiteing in the breeze.
If someone was using forged or inappropriate credentials to access the account, why not cancel all existing credentials and reissue new ones to the proper people? At least that way the affiliates get paid as promised.
But again, I would thank you for verification of the information you've shared in your recent posts.
Kannaway Got Booted by their Bank
A recent email:
Dear Valued Brand Ambassador:
First and foremost, we would like to apologize if you are experiencing an unexpected payment issue. We were notified by our bank that there was fraudulent activity happening to our account, and as a result we were forced to close the account immediately to control the situation. Unfortunately, that unforeseen closure will affect all un-cashed checks issued prior to June 6, 2014.
In brief, all future checks will be issued from a new account; further, we anticipate that our Kannaway direct deposit Visa cards will be available to all BAs within the next 30 days (once the API coding is completed for all systems).
We ask you to please only contact Kannaway Support if you have checks from Kannaway that you have not yet cashed (issued prior to June 6) or if you have accrued any overdraft fees, which we will reimburse immediately when presented with relevant bank statements.
Again, we sincerely apologize and thank you for your understanding and patience. We are working to settle this unanticipated issue promptly, and will let you know immediately when it is resolved.
With our gratitude,
Your Kannaway Headquarters Team
You are correct
There is no massive product purchase required to become a Kannaway "brand ambassador." That just costs $15/month. You are not "required" to participate in the "8 weeks to success" bonus promotion either. However if you want to "treat Kannaway like a business" you are encouraged (brow beaten) into trying to max out the 8 weeks bonuses and what the very first step in doing that? You become "premier qualified" by plunking down the better part of a cool grand on Kannaway product packs.
Listen to their calls and group events, for every mention of trying to sell products to actual customers you'll hear ten mentions of recruiting new affiliates and getting them "premier qualified."
Dude, this is straight up MLM front loading:
http://thompsonburton.com/mlmattorney/2012/10/15/front-loading-excessive-orders-upon-enrollment/
Regulators try to analyze the motivation driving people to purchase the product or service. If the motivation is pure and distributors are purchasing product due to a sincere want or need, the program is in great shape. If, on the other hand, distributors are purchasing product primarily to qualify for additional bonuses, it’s a problem. This is known as “Opportunity Driven Demand.”
If they knew how to use the embed code
this wouldn't be a problem. Using YouTube's standard embed code to view a video on a 3rd party website will increment the view count as normal. If those views aren't getting counted it's KWay's own fault.
I've been on some live hangouts and was one of about 60 people watching. They are ~saying~ that they are going over gangbusters but when they're numbers can be independently verified they're closer to dead in the water. The first page of videos on the Kannaway English channel has only one video with more than 1,000 views with most far less than 500.
"Crapload" is a relative term
It is interesting that ~almost~ all product sales are not to customers but rather the affiliates. There is both a name and geometric shape for that (and they're even spelled the same).
Kannaway is not without problems. They're planning their third major pep rally in their third month, look at the viewer numbers for the YouTube channel and you'll see why. There is no "grassroots" groundswell of interest in the company so they have to manufacture interest.
Their changes to the comp plan and bonus promotions only benefit the professional MLM recruiters and their constant pushing of high priced product packages will ensure the vast majority of "Brand Ambassadors" will lose money.
But their biggest mistake is lack of product value. They will raise awareness of CBD but anyone who comparison shops will not buy product from KWay.
First off, it'd be libel.
She posted on facebook, slander is spoken. And it isn't libel. She sent a product to a lab, received the test results and shared them online only to get a follow up communication from the lab saying that the results they had previously given her were not 100% accurate. When she found out, she shared that information in the same manner she shared the flawed report.
If, after being told there was an error she knowingly posted the flawed report anyway without mentioning the error, then perhaps an argument for libel could be made.
She has nothing to worry about besides the health of her kid. I look forward to the corrected info being made available.
They Also Mention
what instrument was used to perform the test. A Niton XL3t:
http://www.niton.com/en/niton-analyzers-products/xl3/xl3t
Making that test result public and claiming it has any meaning is little better than a shabby lie by Cannavest/PhytoSphere.
I Agree
This one test result can not be held to be conclusive for the reason you mention. All it proves is that a far more formal test is absolutely called for, hopefully by the FDA.
And not just RSHO, all phytosphere products should be tested, more than one production batch preferably.
Dude, please
I get it, you own shares and desperately want other people to buy shares so that your shares will be worth more. Tattooing that in bright green neon across your forehead couldn't make it more obvious.
But this isn't a "let's tell you only what will make you make my shares gain value" forum. It's more like a "within the rules help share all relevant data affecting you decision to invest" forum.
Some of that "relevant data" will not be favorable to your financial interests. Get over it and/or bite me.
Um, Well.,..
It's times like this I wish you would have refuted part (any part) of my argument rather than just telling me I'm wrong. Please understand I have been wrong before so I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong here but you sorta have to meet me half way.
Lets take the body of what I wrote and compare it to what you can prove me wrong about. From there, let's leave it to the individual reader to decide the balance of our respective arguments.
The ball is in your court.
Lack of Value and Values will Kill Kannaway
They are making this a quick hit deal rather than a long term opportunity. Kannakick costs almost the same per piece as Cannachew gum but with 1/10th the CBD.
Assuming a 19.95% CBD per volume content of the CBD Rich Hemp Oil you can get HempVape refills with the same amount of CBD for 1/5th the price.
Kannaway is getting the "word out" about CBD but anyone with an internet connection and the wit to comparison shop will soak up all of Kannaway's hype and turn around to buy products from a non MJNA suppler.
Add to this a MLM comp plan which if they realize it or not (cough cough) will take money out of the pockets of 80+% of the affiliates and put it in the pockets of a few professional MLM recruiters and there is nothing here which says "stable long term growth."
I'll be honest with you Robert, I came here because of KWay under the very mistaken impression that a handful of seedy, greedy MLM hucksters had somehow ingratiated themselves to a honest publicly traded company. And I'm not wrong about the people behind Kannaway.
Keep up the good work, Roll on Big O.
Not Sure I See Your Point
"They've just started" so it's too early for them to focus on selling products to actual customers?
Quite the contrary, they need to establish a company culture, product based and customer focused. They most emphatically are not doing that.
Kannaway is all silly putty, changes with the wind comp plans and how many people can you recruit to spend $1k in the next two months. The more you recruit, the more you get paid (through our elaborate profit share bonus pools).
There are two fundamental orientations in MLM. The first, and by far the least common, is selling as many products to as many people as possible and making money by having done so. The second, almost ubiquitous is crafting complicated comp plans with ~just enough~ product focus to keep the regulators at bay while 80+% of the money flows to >5% of the participants. KWay is playing to option number 2.
How could any of this be of interest to anyone on a MJNA investors message board? Simple. KWay's comp plan is not product focused, it is not designed to sell the maximum possible amount of product which investors would see benefit from. KWay's comp plan is designed to move the maximum amount of money from almost all of the paying affiliates to the smallest number of affiliates possible. Product will be sold but it isn't the focus of the scheme, it's only the excuse for the scheme to exist in the first place.
Not Claiming to be an Expert but.,..
Kannaway looks very much like a troubled MLM company. I logged into to one of their "Opportunity Hangouts" a few days back, I got there about a half an hour into the event and because the 60th person online. The Company President, Chief Song and Dance dude both co hosting and with all their social media footprint 60 folks showed up. Hell "showed up" would be applicable if you needed to get to a location, 60 folks had enough interest to log in.
Look at the view numbers on their YouTube channel (Kannaway English) not very inspiring. Freebies and tire kickers are included in those totals. They aren't really setting the world on fire (but they do need to convey that impression).
Worst still from a MLM company perspective, there is next to no focus on retail sales. Yea, the "back office" is open and you can now sell to customers but that isn't what they're pushing. Recent additions to the comp plan (Eight Weeks to Success) is almost exclusively focused on purchasing a $1k "Premier Product Pack" and recruiting as many people as possible to do the very same thing.
Internal consumption in MLM companies is a recipe for failure. Push out enough motivational videos, hold enough high priced pep rallies (Atlanta will be the second in just over one month) and you can bamboozle enough affiliates to buy enough product to make money for their upline but the professional MLM recruiters are the only ones making any money on a deal like that.
From an investor perspective it would be much better if Kannaway was training their affiliates how to sell MJNA products to actual customers but that is not what is going on here. Kannaway is turning into (yet another) MLM pass up scheme where the downlines pass their money upline till they get tired of bleeding out of pocket.
My point being:
In the court decision cited hemp products were deemed to be outside the DEA's authority because the content of a Schedule 1 compound contained in it had zero potential effect.
CNAV/MJNA/Kannway make no specific medical claims as to the effect of the CBD in the products they sell but they also do not claim is that the CBD content of what they sell is so low as to not have any possible effect (though in Kannaway's case this might be true).
CBD IS a Schedule 1 substance, again, as stupid as that may be. A court decision that legitimized hemp products as legal because they were too low in one naturally occurring Schedule 1 substance is not a good parallel to claim that products with decidedly enhanced levels of another Schedule 1 substance are also therefore legal just because they are derived from hemp.
I hope this never goes to court. I hope the legal situation is clarified by far more rational legislation and as far as that goes, Tuesday would be good for me. But that isn't the case right now. And our national drug policy has not made rational sense for many decades, making an investment decision based on the hope that it will stop making nonsense before it actually changes, well it's a risk factor.
I'm not sure you're correct there Doc
(Posted for those who have not already read it):
http://www.votehemp.com/PDF/HIAvDEA_9th_final_decision.pdf
The court found that non psychoactive hemp, hemp you can not get high off of did not fit into the DEA's Schedule 1 therefore the DEA could not prohibit then. This is not the same situation.
Cannabidiol is, quite stupidly in my opinion a Schedule 1 substance. Seventh from the top on the list on this page:
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/reg_apps/225/225_instruct.htm
The previous court case found that unusable but not unmeasurable THC levels in hemp based products could not be used by the DEA to keep those products off the market. Important difference, MJNA/HempMedsPx/Kannaway are not claiming the CBD content of their products falls below the threshold of having any sort of effect, in fact they claim the opposite. They tout themselves as having the most effective CBD products on the market.
Again, let me state how stupid I think it is that CBD is currently listed as a Schedule 1 substance but it is. Anyone running for or currently in congress who introduces a bill to change the existing law may well find my support. Yet the fact remains, if some bureaucrat with the proper title gets a bug up their but they could send a shut down notice to CANV/MJNA/Kannaway and their respective attorneys would be earning their pay by telling them to shut it down till the court rules in their favor. Which I'd hope they would, quickly.
Links please. Thank you.
Not So Sure it will be Chocolate
(The new CBD product Kannaway will roll out at their Atlanta convention for those wondering)
I think it would be ballsy for them to roll out a chocolate bar with the Casa Luna product already in the market. The Casa Luna product is friggen high end artisanal, organic, kosher and GMO free chocolate and is actuality slightly more expensive per piece than even KWay's Kannakick gum.
Now that wouldn't pose a problem for a MLM company but the real problem would be that each individual piece of Casa Luna CBD chocolate has about ten times as much CBD as Kannakick. Now THAT is something KWay shouldn't risk drawing attention to.
Not to get all editorial (and hopefully not too far off topic) but most MLM products are purchased not by customers but rather by affiliates. Kannaway is staging their second major pep rally in just over a month and holds near nightly Rah Rah sessions on Google Hang Outs. Their new "Eight Weeks to Success" bonus promotion is almost exclusively focused and paying affiliates to purchase lots of product. But the people who are more interested in CBD than they are in MLM hype will comparison shop and find Kannaway's product line as sadly lacking in value as I have. KWay would be wise to avoid selling products which can accurately be compared to other products already in the market.
State and Federal law are not always in sync.
The Washington and Colorado legalizations are proof of that. The Feds ~could~ bust you for toking up in Denver if they wanted to but so far don't. Here's the text of the bill that passed in Wisconsin:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/ab726
Under current law, a controlled substance is classified in one of five separate schedules. The classification is based on:
1) whether there is a currently accepted medical use for the drug;
2) the drug's potential for being abused; and
3) the nature of the dependence that use of the drug may produce. A Schedule I controlled substance, such as a tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), may not be dispensed, even with a prescription. This bill specifically provides that THC does not include cannabidiol
(commonly known as CBD oil extract) in a form without a psychoactive effect if dispensed or documented by a practitioner. This bill also specifically allows CBD oil extract to be dispensed by a practitioner for the treatment of a seizure disorder and allows a practitioner to provide an individual with a letter or other documentation stating that the individual possesses CBD oil extract to treat a seizure disorder.
No disrespect Beaches
But when you want an objective opinion about a product or service the last person who's opinion you should rely on is the guy who's set to make money by selling it to you. Not that you don't ask the salesman for his opinion but when you hear him speak you have to understand he isn't apt to tell you anything other than what he thinks will make you buy from him.
No offense intended but you're a Kannaway rep. If you were selling Tasty Vape you would be telling me that THEY had the best products in the industry. And you would be quick to point out that their CBD vape refills had (as best we can tell because Kannaway wont say for sure) the same amount of CBD per volume and also cost one fifth the price of Kannaway's refills.
Just imagine how many Tasty Vape products you could sell using that as a sales pitch.
You can get it much cheaper than Kannaway:
http://tastyhempoil.com/shop/tasty-vape/tasty-vape-flavored-vaporizer-hemp-oil-5ml-50mg-cbd/#.U2qHdaLxCeY
Kannaway is as of yet not a sure thing.
Yes, they are selling product but there are issues. I've watched a good number of MLM launches and this is far from the smoothest roll out I've ever seen. Product delivery delays are never a good sign but the thing that caught me eye is the comp plan "enhancements." The whole Eight Weeks to Success deal tells me the "buzz launch" campaign didn't do what they wanted it to.
The original story was Kannaway Affiliates can not sell to customers but only during the (March) "Buzz Launch" phase. Come April 1st you could sell to anyone in the US. April 1st got pushed back to April 20th (420 get it) but they'd be selling to customers with the normal comp plan then, right? Well not quite, no product delivery till the second week of this month (six weeks past the original promise).
They could just be honest and admit what kind of a shoe string they're operating on. They aren't ordering product until sales are made but that should smooth itself out. That isn't the red flag I'm pointing out, the "Eight Weeks to Success" promotion is.
For a company that harps on "compliance" the way Kannaway does the focus of the Eight Weeks promotion is dead wrong. Legitimate MLM sells products or services to customers. The Eight Weeks promotion is all about becoming an affiliate (Brand Ambassador) and buying the most expensive product package possible. Then recruit at least one person a week for eight weeks to do exactly the same. THAT is how the bonuses are stacked. Not for selling products to customers, that may happen eventually. But for the next eight weeks at least Kannaway is focusing on signing up affiliates and paying them to buy products.
Comp plans drive affiliate behavior, Kannaway is not focusing on selling products to customers.
But you acknowledge that both her name and HDDC Holdings are listed as Correspondent for Kannaway and near all of the related trademarks, right?
Almost like if you had cause to "correspond" with HDDC Holdings about the Kannaway trademark she would be the person you spoke to?
The only confirmed relationship between Kannaway and Micheal Llamas that I'm aware of is that HDDC Holding (Llamas) is listed as the "Correspondent" to pretty much all of Kannaway's trademarks. Including to the word "Kannaway":
http://www.trademarkia.com/kannaway-86176026.html
Beyond that I doubt any relationship between Llamas and pert near anything will be confirmed if it can plausibly be denied. And I believe that Stewart Titus (and General Hemp) is listed as the official owner of Kannaway.
OK, Figured it Out.
I haven't done metric conversions since high school. I forgot there were 1,000 grams (nominally) to a liter. So 10 mg is roughly equivalent to .01 ml.
So a HempVape cartridge filled with their own oil or with "Tasty Vape" Hemp Oil ~should~ have approximately the same amount of CBD. So the Tasty Vape oil is only about five times cheaper.
Oh well, MLM markups.
Thanks for the reply Drew.
This came directly from kannaway when i emailed them... Hope it helps regarding the hempvap......
Hi Andrew,
It is 1ml with 5% CBD rich hemp oil.
thank you
Tasty Vape™ Flavored Vaporizer Hemp Oil – 5ml – 50MG CBD $29.95
Doc, do you have any idea as to fluid volume a HempVape atomizer capsule?
I'm just trying to price compare between KWay's refills and CBD vape oil sold elsewhere. Here for example:
http://tastyhempoil.com/shop/tasty-vape/tasty-vape-flavored-vaporizer-hemp-oil-5ml-50mg-cbd/
Thanks in advance.
Thanks Doc. I just got an email back from one of the people who used to sell the HempVap independently and they too confirmed that product will be a Kannaway exclusive. They moved on to selling a competitor's product in it's place.
This is an interesting decision from MJNA's perspective. If they sold the HempVap through Kannaway in addition to their existing distributor network it would have been a win-win from a shareholder perspective. Now they have to hope that Kannaway alone will outsell Kannaway + all their old affiliates. Especially when some (many?) of their old affiliates will now be selling MJNA's competitors products.
Thanks again for the info Doc.
I don't believe that's true Doc. Kannaway will have exclusive distribution rights to the "beauty" line of products but per the last news release on the HempVap website:
"An additional product line from HempMedsPX(TM), HempVAP(TM), will be a non-exclusive offering by the home-based business organization."
http://hempvap.com/medical-marijuana-inc-s-hempmedspx-signs-two-year-agreement-home-based-business-organization/
Why would they stop selling the product through Amazon, eBay and their existing affiliate base and sell only through an unproven, upstart MLM company? Particularly when their last MLM effort was a resounding failure.
I have heard Kannaway members claim the vape pen will be theirs and theirs alone but I've also seen them claim that Kannaway is the "first" hemp MLM. Never believe anything about a MLM prelaunch that isn't in writing and doubt most of that as well. There's a reason Kannaway disabled the view counters on their official YouTube page and it isn't because those numbers are larger than they expected.
Kannaway is unproven at best, they will generate some sales but it's yet to be seen as to how many. Keep in mind this isn't MJNA's first stab at running/partnering with a MLM company, "The Hemp Network" launched (I think) in 2010 and sank like a stone after much fan fair.
My question is with the product line. The "hemp vape" product already has competition in the market (from HempMeds them self and from others) so will have a hard time demanding they type of profit margins MLM companies need to drive the commission structure.
That leaves the Cannabis Beauty Defined line of skin care products and I think that's going to be an uphill sales battle. CBD may be amazing but what functional value does it add to an exfoliating face cleanser? This stuff isn't going to be cheap and it isn't like Kannaway is going to pay for any studies to prove what rubbing a tiny amount of CBD oil on your skin does or does not do for you health wise.
What's worse they're focusing on recruiting affiliates rather than selling products to non affiliates. Their "sales funnels" make it hard to buy anything without enrolling first. This sort of thing get's MLM companies killed either through attrition or by regulatory intervention.
Maybe I'm wrong but Kannaway is far from a sure thing revenue wise.