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The dilemma> Can CWRN overcome all the skeletons in the closet?
Is the ore at the port being held due to question of who owns what?
While things appear to be a total mess right now, I for one thank Geo for filing suit. I have to believe longs will finally start to see documents that will tell us exactly what is going on with this company. I'm pissed that it has taken action like this to force things to happen, but I am glad they are finally happening.
I have said for a while that I believed things were not as pretty as we were hoping. I also said that didn't matter to me as long as things were progressing.
I have run a business and watched a start up go through times like these. You hope the pace of growth can overcome all the problems you run into. That start up is now a 300+ million dollar company that no longer has to deal with any of these types of issues.
As we can see most of the problems for CWRN originated before the mine started operating at the capacity it now operates at.
The question is can they generate enough revenue quick enough to simply pay their way out of all these troubles. I'm pretty sure that what Bob has been hoping all along. JMO
Balihi- Just a question about point of law. If they emailed a document to Bob and he alters it in any way before signing it, doesn't it simply become a new contract that would then also have to be signed and agreed to by the original party before it would become an actual contract?
I'm not sure how changing the terms of a contract that is being negotiated becomes fraud.
I am wondering if Geo didn't proof read the signed document when it was returned and because of that they are now holding a contract that doesn't state what they thought it did.
As a result they are charging fraud possibly for their own negligence.
Could Shirley have had anything to do with reviewing or executing that contract from Geos side before she left to join CWRN?
Many unanswered questions IMO
CWRN Longs--- now you know another reason why some of us have been trying to offer ideas as to how Bob might raise funds to create cash flow. It really makes no sense for CWRN to have "proven reserves" to the level they have and have money problems.
Whatever it takes, Bob should be moving ore anywhere he can for whatever margins he can get. 1 million dollars now can be worth more to the company than 10 or 20 million at a time when they have plenty of cash on hand.
If the reserves are anywhere near where they say they are, it won't mean anything in the long run that they originally sold with such slim margins to keep the business running.
Bob needs to mine the dam ore, ship the dam ore and file the dam financials!If he wants to lead any company whether from the top or as a large share holder then lead! If not step away completely and reap the rewards from someone doing exactly that.
Many have wondered when the next shoe was going to fall because we knew they were out there.
BOB PICK UP YOUR DAM SHOES!!!!!!
"innocent investor" How can you call any person that tries to play an APS pump and dump an innocent investor? Anyone playing APS is greedy! There is nothing wrong with that per se but there is also no point to blaming APS.
There is also no point in trying to find fault in your posts. You post when you get in and when you get out with subtle pumping in between to keep those that follow you interested.
You then do soft follow ups wishing all well to maintain that following. I'm not trying to call you out or anything but I have noticed a pattern to your posting that seems to be a little self serving whether intentional or not.
If you want to be honest,(as you say) you should be telling people to try and get in and out just a little sooner than you do. These are just pump plays and no more than that. There are no innocent here!
I do believe you want people to get in and out with a profit, but only because that helps to make the next play successful also. That format would have allowed all to be successful on a continuing basis. Unfortunately too much of the herd has been too greedy and been burnt along the way.
Unfortunately APS themselves don't care at all. They are the definition of greed.
Again I want to say Garyst I find no fault with you! We all have investing strategies. Yours would be very profitable for all if it weren't for APS greed. Or if they had any legitimacy on any of their picks.
cyber-- your ideas are great but they make too much sense to ever be put in place.
Remember there are people at the top that benefit off all these loop holes. People we rarely hear about. If there wasn't all these no brainer ideas would have been in place a long time ago.
JMO
Bigbake1 Sorry I missed the fact that you were referencing only the specific point that recently took place and not the whole event. Reading hundreds of posts can make that happen.
We obviously have different opinions here but I don't want to just create arguments.
As far as the big boys going long, they will continue to do so only as long as it benefits them. Long these days on any board may be 1 day or 1 year. Could be both in the same stock at different times.
Those investors have no risk due to the sweet deal they were given. At any time they can sell with almost a 100% return.
Again sorry for my mistake on the reference!
Jim
How can an event that FORCED KCG to accept a rushed bail out package with no ability to reject be called a small dent? Had no one stepped in, had they pulled out of the agreement KCG would have been forced to close within 1 day. That's really not a small dent.
The stock price has held for now at a very low level without any of the shares being diluted into the market. In other words KCG is in deep trouble if those shares start hitting the market.
That is using your own current scenario.
This is all a very big deal depending how it plays out.
Thanks for the info I took it off board to an email. Didn't catch you in time.
I wasn't relating the two, just making a point as to how things happen that the average investor doesn't even know happens.
If I had not been watching every trade I wouldn't have known if my trades were being passed over.
The people (scottrade) executing the trades couldn't explain why it happened.
Do you remember the ticker? I'd like to do a little research.
Thanks
If I'm not mistaken there were individual account holders that were caught up in the mess. I wasn't referring to any suit regarding the parties you mentioned.
I had left Scottrade due to some irregularities that even my branch manager couldn't explain. That is why I was following the situation.
I had numerous routing situations that were changed during phone calls I was having with that manager. At the time I was day trading so I was watching every trade that happened in a given day.
I was able to supply time and trade information to the manager that showed my trades should have been executed but weren't. I left scottrade after this happened a number of times.
Janice- if it was caught in minutes how is it that people were actually being prosecuted for cashing out and using those funds for personal gain? I will have to go back and look for the details but that wouldn't have been able to take place until after the three day settlement period had elapsed am I correct?
Not sure what you mean by can't have it both ways. I was asking why you would be able to sell and not by. If frozen why would any type of trading be allowed at all?
I respect your opinion to believe what you want as I do with everyone. The fact is no one believes anything until they are proven wrong.
Who would have believed Scottrade could execute a forward split of a stock that was suppose to be reverse split a short while ago?
How could that not be caught in seconds? Instead all accounts were frozen and only selling was allowed in that instance also I believe.
Just a little strange don't you think? These guys take less care when dealing with 100s of millions of dollars than most people do with their own checking accounts. (and certainly our own businesses)
In reality it is complained about in virtually every security by someone.
Most often neither side knows quite as much as they think they do.
The old adage there are three sides to every story.
your side my side and the truth which lies somewhere in the middle.
I'm sure you have read about some of the fines that have been paid for naked short selling. To say it doesn't exist is worse than anyone over blowing it. Why, because they have been caught from time to time.
If they are caught now and then you have to know there are times when they aren't caught. At what level it is actually done I have no idea. It is a fact however that it is done!
Just trying to keep it real from both sides.
A curious question. In these type of plays where everyone knows the stock is being manipulated, don't you think those doing the manipulating take in to account how the charts are being formed?
They do this time and time again so they must know a percentage of people will use chart data to support buying pressure.
I have no position but this is just a question I thought of when reading posts.
You said you have experience in this area so I thought I would ask.
Thanks for your input
Sorry but you aren't serious about that study reference are you? As I read it there were only 8 subjects used. That isn't a big enough sampling to obtain any useful data at all IMO. What would you use, 4 on placebo and only 4 taking the drug?
You're better off just pumping the promotion as most are. At least that position is legitimate for what it's worth.
Some will make money---many will lose.
I'm sorry maybe it was just too hard for you to read the part of the response that was in parenthesis. It stated that part of the response was in regard to the previous post that referenced-- you guessed it, insider trading.
So now you guys want to make fun of the conspiracy theories and then offer some of your own. Good job!
Do you really think that with Bob already knowing for quite a while that both the SEC and the DOJ were following his activities he would be doing anything improper?
He had already submitted a plea bargain long ago. His issues were from quite a while ago. I'm pretty sure the SEC wouldn't even consider any pleas if Bob was still doing things wrong.
It's easy to understand negative sentiment but you guys need to at least offers views that make sense.
Insider trading while knowingly being investigated. Heck that sounds more like something from Goldman Sachs or Knight Capital Group. (I know that was the previous post)
You are aware that for Bob to sell any shares it would have to be reported within three days right?
Have you seen any reports saying he has sold any shares?
That's right I forgot facts just get in the way.
BigBake- I believe those forms don't have to be filed until three days after the action takes place. We will know pretty quick once it happens but the market action may take place before the filing.
Please tell me what basis the SEC would have for looking into OOIL.
I don't even have a position here but I do work in a research lab known around the world. Some of the research regarding algae has been done at the lab I work at.
I follow the company for that reason. Some of the best minds in the world told me the industry would be worth keeping an eye on. I respect them way ahead of any message board poster. LOL
As for the poster that lost 2000, maybe the SEC should investigate all companies that lose people money.
Legitimate reasons I understand----give me one
I don't want to try and guess the short term because we all know the powers that can move a stock any way they want short term.
The one thing I don't understand is why anyone would expect the stock to reach levels near $7. When the company was strong I believe it was only around 12.
Before the "glitch" the company was showing weakness. It has surely been damaged to some extent at least for a period of time.
If you add in the fact that there is definitely going to be major dilution at some point (I believe 3x as many shares added) then how could the stock possibly be worth more than 25-30% of the previous levels?
If everything was legit and nothing else happens (lawsuits) I have to think the stock would be fairly priced right where it is now at best.
Just a guess!
Quote from Kimble
i could also be the SEC has started an investigation
This is total BS with no basis in fact or reality IMO.
It shows how desperate some are to do anything trying to manipulate the price of a stock.
Questions on both sides about OOIL always need to be raised to keep investors informed.
Trying to use the name of the SEC is lame!
It may be money but I can't really agree with that scenario. The reason being if Bao had already paid CWRN for the ore they would be really pissed if they couldn't get the ore out of customs.
Why would they pay the whole amount to CWRN without knowing whatever fees necessary would be paid?
I would assume CWRN would have started trucking sooner if money was the problem--regardless of the price if it was holding up a shipment to BAO.
CWRN has had plenty of ore stockpiled at the mine to fill another shipment.
I want to see if a larger ship picks up a double load. (don't really know if that's gonna happen but it has been alluded to)
Thanks for the mark! I'm trying to learn the more I experience I gain! Now let's see what happens.
One thing I didn't mention, is we should be able to track the selling if they have to report being such large share holders. Someone else probably knows what form needs to be filed. Janice?
I am pretty much falling into the same camp as balihi but maybe you would like to offer your idea as to what that reason is. There are a lot more than one that I could think of!
An outsiders view. (for what it's worth)
To me there are three possible scenarios that will play out. (yeh I know there's a lot more)
#1 The private financing partners don't care at all about Knight and will convert and sell their shares for around $3. It looks like a bargain price to many investors so they may be able to unload most of their shares while making a 100% profit in a very short time. (not bad) They dump and have no risk at all. (and pocket 400 million between them)
#2 They support Knight for whatever period of time suits them allowing the share price to rise. Those that think the correction was over done will buy hoping for a bounce. They could actually cause a bigger bounce with a little buying support. When they start feeling resistance they can begin selling at either a controlled pace to maximize profit on converted shares or both sell and short the hell out of the stock. If they take both actions the price will tumble due to volume selling alone. That would give them an easy cover at a much lower price. No risk because there is no way the market could support the amount of selling they could facilitate.
At the bottom they could either offer to buy the company, cover their shorts, or offer the company another round of financing. (best of all worlds for them)
#3 They can support Knight longer term. We all know how the markets are manipulated. Maybe there is a need to have Knight in place. Getco stated it might hurt them due to the loss of market liquidity if Knight went out of business. (or it could just give them a bigger market share- who knows) If they can help Knight recover, they will be holding a big piece of a "successful" company. Because they share the same business they can help boost the value of Knight by routing business through them. They can hold as much or as little as they want for as long as they want. (as long as it's profitable or advantageous to do so)
The only problem with all these scenarios is that the private finance group will always have the ability to manipulate (legally) the destiny of Knight! (until they have actually converted and sold the majority of their respective shares. They are in an incredible situation as I see it!
future1
That's what I was referring to. Thanks! It's crap speak again but if I'm not mistaken doesn't that first line mean they can convert at any time at the 1.50 conversion price?
BigBake1 I will have to read things again, but I believe the 60 (3) day wait only applies to the mandatory conversion date.
The shares can currently be converted at any time the holder wishes to do so. The only restriction I believe is that no more than 20% of the holding may be converted at any one time.
Seems to me this information was spelled out under section b I think.
Someone posted it here earlier.
That is why I was wondering about the conversion/dilution scenario.
Just going off recollection of what I have read here the last few days so I could be wrong.
Can anyone tell me what the purpose was of making the conversion mandatory if the price holds above $3.00 for 63 days. (correction they have to bet converted 3 days after holding the price for 60 days)
I know the recent shares get some preferential treatment in certain situations but why would Knight insist they be converted at that time and why would the private financing party agree to it?
I agree with you completely! I am trying to learn to read the PR and 8K language that I believe is intentionally done in a deceptive way on both ends.
Good Luck!
Didn't mean to get into a pissing match with you. As I said I have no money here but I really want to see how all this plays out. It seems weird to me that Knight would agree to let one of it's competitors be involved in the private financing and give a group such a controlling interest.
Getco no longer competes with Knight because they now own a big
percentage.
If that group forces knight into bankruptcy they are the first shareholders to get paid so they are safe. It would also eliminate some of the competition. They could kill the price by converting early, selling to drop the price and then simply buy the virtually worthless company out for pennies.
Is Knight too important to let go down?
I have no idea how this will play out so it is an interesting study.
I hope you do well with your investments however you play them.
Jim
By the way I was posting from one of the best science research labs in the world. The students and professors there specialize in math.
That must be the same kind of math the guy that says the price dropped 300% last thursday was using.
Let's see if it starts at $10 a 100% drop would take it to zero. To drop 300% would take it to oh yeh minus 20. Good work!
Your math would work if it said 200% in addition to the base price.
BigBake do the math any way you want but it's a very simple math problem.
300 is double 150 or 200%
It doesn't say 200% above that price it says 200% of that price.
I hope you all make money here!
If it's in the 8K plain as day then why would even the board mod have stated this?
janice Shell
quote
LOL!! You're right. That would be $3.00, counterintuitive as it is.
I have no skin in the game so it doesn't matter to me. I'm just trying to follow things accurately.
I'm just very interested to see how this all plays out!
Big bake I don't believe the 4.50 number is being used correctly.
The quote you used says 200% of the then applicable conversion price.
Therefore the conversion price is the whole price or 100%.
200% of that price would be 3.00 not 4.50
You are right that 4.50 would be a 200% increase but I don't believe that is what the 8K says.
I could be wrong but I think the wording makes the mandatory conversion take place after 3.00 ( Janice also corrected herself earlier on that point)
General-
No disrespect I appreciate your input..but things such as this to me seem in violation of tos..there is NO PROOF that revenues from these shipments have come to cwrn..it is all speculation. the company wont provide proof of ANY money goign to cwrn..as reference please revisit the 2011 pr outlining the revenue distribution for the first order..nowhere in there was cwrn or its shareholders included...please refrain from posting things such as this as it is not constructive dd..at least add "IMO" at the end, thank you
Obviously this is NOT a tos! It is a comment about CWRN which is the topic of this board. Any comments about the company are what this board is about.
By the way ALL posts are assumed to be IMO. Posting on a message board is an anonymous act.
Would you like to explain how the sub has ANY ownership in the parent company?