Democracy starts with you, tag your it! ...Thom Hartman
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That tax is for those making over $400 million per year. As much as I love my escrows, I'm never gonna have to worry about this tax. This is primarily a Wall Street tax.
I agree with you and thanks for your recent analysis. The WMILT is a 'liquidating' trust, that 'liquidated' 75/25 "certain" assets as approved by Walrath. This bankruptcy was a Chapter 11 RE-Org.....not Chapter 7 'liquidation' lock stock and barrel. That's why the WMILT was only in allowed to liquidate parts of the WMI whole ....that were up for grabs within Chapter 11. People have conflated the difference for over 10 years. And that's a huge mistake.
Regarding your post yesterday, and I realize you said it was based on BOP's lawsuit number of 600B, not your own. Here's where I've been at for numbers since 2012:
IMO, $600B as stated by BOP, in MBS can not actually be income. Holding companies typically retain 10-15% - maybe a touch more. For comparison, JPMorgan's MBS income participation retention has been 20% at times. The most legit information we have is looking back to WMI’s 2007 10-k which states MBS income participation was about $7B per year. Even at $5B per year Xs 13 years = 65B + $15B interest = $80B.
Additionally, also stated in that 2007 10-K was $220B in "mortgage loans held in portfolio". That means the best qualified and lowest LTV (loan to value) loans that were ‘not securitized’ and sold to others as MBS…but were actually held by WMI as private investment "held in portfolio" where WMI owned the mortgage asset itself AND the monthly interest income that created.
Similarly, Washington Federal here in Seattle is another example of a primarily focused "Portfolio Lender", meaning they only underwrite loans they can afford to keep, instead of selling them off into MBS. The underwriting standards are higher as such, and the interest rates slightly higher as well. They retain the mortgage asset rather than sell it, and they collect 100% of the interest income rather than lose 80-90% with other investors in a MBS situation. And I speak from experience regarding WAFd.
The $220B ‘held in portfolio’ has probably been largely liquidated by refinances, paid off, etc. in 13 years, so although any monthly mortgage income would be increasingly less over the years, the liquidated loans have become cash and would still be there as WMI/WMIH hasn't been underwriting any mortgage loans since 2009. This figure doesn't include monthly compounding interest on the increasingly liquidated cash over the last 13 years....Maybe another $20B minimum?
My Bop number combines what we know about WMI's "MBS participation" and "Loans Held in Portfolio" and is more like $80B in MBS income/interest participation retention + $220B (+ interest) in mortgages held in portfolio = about $300B give or take, which is mostly liquidated into cash, some remaining mortgage assets held in portfolio still producing monthly interest income, and many MBS interest income participation that is still to this day, continuing to produce income as some of these MBS don't expire until 2041.
What's funny is over the last 13 years we've heard that "they will use our money (implied over years of time) to pay us back".. And when I look at it from my perspective, they nearly have. $300B is about what WMI consolidated was worth at the time of the 5th Amendment Taking of WAMU. Which could be why rumors are flying behind the scenes that it's nearly time for the escrow conclusion as BOP has intimated.
How many shares is COOP short on itself to aid in these buybacks? KKR is an easy co-conspirator. The no-shorting agreement has long expired.
It is hard to buy back your own COOP shares in quantity when COOP is running to the moon. Motive.
For legal reasons, any entity out of business always keeps the State Certificate open for 3 years statute of limitations for legal liability reasons, lest a corporate veil get pierced from those following the money. It is not unusual for this to be kept open in Good Standing (which only means your state required filing is up to date), and the Business to be closed at the same time. Both can absolutely be true. Both are true in our case.
Takes 5 minutes of document filing, and less than $200 filing fee to maintain this liability protection. Frankly I'm glad they are, as Hot Coffee Alice has a penchant for filing and losing continual lawsuits.
lmao, Just get KKR and COOP to stop shorting itself here
Nurse Jeff, everything before Oct is written differently. so obvious its a sore spot.
This statement on todays 10-Q is different from any other 10-Qs before 10/29/20.
Yeah, ....."in the normal course of business".....
Keep in mind, "the normal course of business" as this was Chapter 11, includes the "normal course of business" pre 2008...ie decades of securitizations and SPE/VIE interest income residuals.
They SEC play it now like COOP sprang out of the martian landscape in 2012 out of nowhere, and was a little seedling until Nationstar comes along, and watered us into the recent (post 2018) growth phase that they only SEC report on...... hide within.
Think about what that really means.....COOP is still WMI (with interim name changes). This was not a Chapter 7 liquidation death and funeral.
WMI hit the hospital in 2008 Chapter 11, and lived to tell about it post 2012.. Same dude. Same assets new and old. Just dressed in another 3 piece suit.
If I was in their shoes getting millions in compensation shares, why wouldn't I have it shorted. More shares now for less, equals more later.
I agree, I don't really care to an extent.......but jeez, get this whole show on the road finally. All of it...! Stop the tease
Absolutely, Keep in mind that COOP is still the same "Company" as WMI. Chapter 11 bankruptcy never ever stopped the lineage. ITs the same corporate personhood. WMI just changed its suit and shoes....ie, name and address...WMI is still the same "Company" today, name changed as COOP, in its most recent reiteration.
Chapter 7 liquidation would've been a different story, and thank god it wasn't for those who released.
Maybe COOP is shorting itself? I think so.
We know PPS is being held back, despite COOP for months saying its undervalued, and that COOP is such a great value that COOP is continually buying its own shares back. And they act incredulous that it is so undervalued..... I know when I'm being manipulated
IF you look at motive......COOP shorting itself allows it to buy itself cheaper, and reap more when the insiders know its finally time to run to the moon. Who else has the safety of insider knowledge to play with fire this way?
I never thought they'd directly fess up, but this feels pretty close....As usual, OFF-balance is mixed in with On-Balance sheet language, to neuter accountability and specificity. Off balance is and can be hidden behind on balance sheet activity until it becomes all on-balance upon total consolidation of all books, as COOP has mentioned in this 10-Q... that they will consolidate on and off balance sheet.
Little leaks here and there, imo
Absolutely agree. Gettur dun
Today's 10-Q: 10. What interesting is the mention of OFF- balance sheet SPE/VIE mortgage backed collatoral assets, that COOP believes should be 'now consolidated in the future....blended and folded. This is a big statement to make!
COOP is acknowledging on and off balance (legacy WMI interests?) SPE transactions that will be consolidated now. COOP could now be taking ownership of the legacy collatoral mortgage assets. This would mean the Delaware trusts then reconciling with legacy who released. imo
"10. Securitizations and Financings
Variable Interest Entities
A summary of the assets and liabilities of the Company’s transactions with VIEs included in the Company’s condensed consolidated balance sheets is presented below:
In the normal course of business, the Company enters into various types of on- and off-balance sheet transactions with special purpose entities (“SPEs”) determined to be VIEs, which primarily consist of securitization trusts established for a limited purpose. Generally, these SPEs are formed for the purpose of securitization transactions in which the Company transfers assets to an SPE, which then issues to investors various forms of debt obligations supported by those
The Company has determined that the SPEs created in connection with certain advance facilities trusts should be consolidated as the Company is the primary beneficiary of each of these entities. Also, the Company consolidated certain reverse mortgage SPEs as it is the primary beneficiary of each of these entities.
Yes, Coop is the primary beneficiary of the off balance and legacy trusts backing assets, as they would be in receipt and control of these assets for collatoral purposes.
Keep in mind COOPS 10Q is only quoting up till 3/31/21 and only reporting ON- balance sheet numbers. Off balance sheet (legacy) is off balance sheet. Magic
the rock called Boardpost
What triggers COOP actually wanting, or better put...finding it neccessary to access the legacy debt collateral?
What forces COOP to ever acknowledge these assets? If they can let it sit on the back porch, and still borrow debt implicitly with folks like KKR, what is their incentive to every acknowledge it?
Thanks AZ for your efforts as always, and taking the time out to do it! The sub-tranche info is quite interesting, and I never caught that back then.
The LT is done and gone, and that is HUGE wall to collapse for us going forward.
Exciting times!
Awesome, lol.. well said!
I've been reading the Proxy pdf.....Is WAND Holding Corp - that is apparently still alive, aka KKR affiliate....acutally WMIH in a sense? By lead arrangers, who set this all up, and in reading the proxy papers today.....why is Wand Holding the recipient?
So for COOP to buyback its own shares from KKR affiliates.....a la Wand Holdings maybe?....
Are you thinking that the COOP buyback of KKR's shares, is to regain control of itself....in other words a pre-arranged event as part of the 'hide-the-sausage' shell game?
In other words, this is the first sign of WMIH/COOP realigning with legacy assets?
wild guess here, but did KKR hold too many shares, despite the BOD allowing them to exceed 5%?
Thx for posting this. I was gonna say same thing earlier, but was on the road
How can you say "WILL Continue"
when your SEC LT quote says
"COULD continue" ?
You are heinously misinterpreting the SEC filing or you have insider information to make the claim that the LT "Will continue"
Yep, This was Chapter 11. !! The right to reorganize around actual Assets > Liabilities.
The message board distraction dialogue, has been 12 years of rhetoric as if this was a Chapter 7 liquidation based solely on APR.
I can't wait for tomorrow AZ! Good riddance WMILT! What a milestone! It's gonna be great seeing those DTC markers outlive the WMILT, lol
What a painfully long haul, but at least the spent time here is like traveling through a box canyon. Eventually we all come to the end of the trail, and they have nowhere left to hide the sausage.
They are running out of time and delays. COOP is springing leaks and PPS is rising. When we hit inevitable equilibrium and those paths cross....Yowzaa! HLCE
I was just going to suggest leases. Boeing loves using this strategy. And WMI most likely leased whatever it could - branch footprints, airplanes, etc. ..., and only bought if it made sense (WMI Seattle Tower). But if I'm building an empire, buying property and owning buildings kills your cash and leverage potential up front... versus leasing, which lets you scale up incredibly fast for the same amount of seed money.
If WMI consolidated owned any property, the shell game played with leases is 2 things. To keep liability away from the parent and assets. And second, to reduce tax liability and keep profits up for the parent/shareholders with low cost leases.
The leasing sub barely scrapes by, maybe loses a bit of money here and there, and absorbs all the BS lawsuits, maintenance and such.. Just a tool for a specific job.
Imagine your selling craft espresso, and a person spills it onto themselves, and they act surprised that coffee is hot, so they sue for millions.....hehehe....The last thing a parent corporation needs or wants to deal with, is this muckety muck.
But personally, I think WMI leased way more than is generally thought, due to scaling up growth potential and as evidenced by how quick JPM could dispose of WMB footprints, as well as reading the FDIC PAA and various JPM Notices to FDIC for indemnification.
As far as the WMI tower here in downtown Seattle, it was debtor property, and unfortunately the debtor could choose to sell it for quick cash during the largest housing crash in near history,.....and they did.
I agree, the longer Alice fights windmills, the longer WMIH/COOP and all 3rd party associated groups get to play and leverage our assets for cheap, before they have to give them back.
Exactly!! They think we're stupid but we know exactly what's going on.... She can't be that bright to continue this charade while we actually lost FAR more than we could have ever gained.
If she could win (but won't), we'd have much bigger problems as the POR7 would then be moot and the BK pierced. Every creditor would jump back in... How does another 13 years sound? bobby, large,? any other cheerleaders?
As its obviously costing more than we gain, she's either in it for herself (cash me outside) or for certain creditors and debt holders, who hid the sausage in 2008 and lost to us years ago in 2012.
I take these efforts as an affront personally. She is trying to trojan horse hijack everything we fought and won...
Keep on cheerleading the dissipation of our assets. Mayb Jay Bray will spill some coffee on Alice and she can drag this out another 5 years
Quote: "Would you rather have 900 for each P share NOW? Or would you rather litigate for several years trying to get that extra 100. (Only using these numbers as an example) ?"
And said in another '3rd party' way....'Would you rather orchestrate an intentional and strategic conflict between beneficiaries, so that you WMIH/COOP can keep using their money for years while they fight over scraps? '
Cheapest money there is - to use ours who released...., versus debt or leverage borrowing - requiring paying higher interest rates and giving up more shares/preferred in exchange.
Everyone like to ride a good horse! And we are that horse
totally! Time is money, and money is money. Alice and these Quixotic court battles have cost everyone more than the value she is arguing about. It makes ZERO sense!
When you look at who stands to gain by the delays...., then it makes perfect sense.
The longer Alice drags this out for them, the longer WMIH/COOP gets to play (leverage) off of our collatoral without paying those who released.
imo, she will / is 'encouraged' to quixotically chase any avenue of delay
haha, it passes something alright : )
Exactly!
I don't think this is about a few bucks with her or Ps, this is about trying with every dying breath to overthrow the results of POR 7 and the re-org.
Minimal cost to keep appealing, but the upside is tens of $Billions if successful.
Agree. She was against having an Equity Committee in the beginning. That should indicate quite clearly whose interests she has in mind. And it isn't retail equity.... There are interests here that have been trying to overthrow POR 7, since the day they got trounced.
C'mon now.....the trustee only reports to the beneficial owner. If you released, you just own percentage of the beneficial owner.
The trustee doesn't have to notify any of the thousands of us who hold a tiny percentage interest.
Yes, 5 different separate filings
Is it possible (under Unconsolidated Sub reporting rules), That the reason it appears as disappeared, is something about the Bankruptcy process, allowed them to therefore establish $300 million as "historical cost" or "purchase price". Like setting your computer back in time.
in other words, truth in Actual numbers, is allowed to be hidden behind some beginning, meaningless, basis number derived from BK.
Payment owed to DTC tracking marker holders is a liability to a newly re-oprganized WMIH/COOP when WMIH reunites with its legacy assets - mostly due to those who released....especially, if these values are >$20B... WMIH would look bankrupt again, and would be on the OTC still.
So if they pushed these certain bankruptcy remote liabilities, legally off the current COOP books as "Unconsolidated Subsidiaries", then WMIH/COOP looks much healthier as an ongoing enterprise. (Assuming 3rd party trustees haven't disbursed 12 years accumulated interest yet, as our DTC markers are still valued at zero today.)
But what happens if the 3rd party trustees disburse those 12 years accumulated interest? It seems WMIH could keep claiming "historical cost" and playing the same shell game....
It seems we need a way to force WMIH's hand when that time arrives. Although I'd think something this crucial wouldn't have been missed by Susman et al.
And that's the rub......They don't have to report under the literal usage of the term Unconsolidated Subsidiary. You won't even see that term, because if there is value, it can be reported (hidden in plain sight) under 'historical value' or 'purchase price' within the Consolidated filing. But what if that value is at the moment...zero?
My posit, was to say the value is zero at the moment, like we see in our DTC escrow accounts, then technically there is nothing to report at all ! catch my drift? If 3rd party trustees haven't released 12 years accumulated interest yet, then what is holdup? If the 3rd party trustees just now released 12 years accumulated interest, how long can WMIH delay passing it on? One reporting quarter?
Its like WMIH has legacy who released in a Catch 22. We know its there, because we have DTC markers. But we don't know what we got or when, because the current value is stated as zero.
This is the nut shell game WMIH is playing.
My question is what can we do to escape this whirlpool we keep circling around in?