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The only entity to be granted a license to operate on the Sawston site is Advent Bioservices - FACT!
The paid up share capital of Advent is £1.00 with one share. It’s the minimum required under UK law. The shareholder is Toucan and that is all they paid into it.
It’s a fact and freely available when you see the filings of Advent Bioservices Ltd.
You certify a legal entity with employees not equipment and a lease. It seems the argument of Biosectinvestor is blinded by that beautiful light. Basin called the MHRA and they, not him referred to it as Advent Bioservices seeking approval not NWBO… completely agree with your comments Anders. I speak with Basin and he found out 100%.
Check out the accounts of advent bio - paid up share capital is one share at £1.00 and it’s owned by Toucan fund 111
Now Toucan could provide loans to Advent but I cannot see that anywhere in the accounts. Creditors are trade creditors, vat and other creditors but the values are not especially high.
2018 accounts showed a balance sheet of £3.6m with just six employees.
Last filed accounts (2019) show 11 employees and a balance sheet value of £4.8m
We should get to see 2020 accounts by September 2021 but they filed 2019 accounts three months late so I’m expecting to see them sometime before the month end and year end.
Agreed…..
Good news….
Clever toucan bird!
I agree discussing it here is pointless. It won’t be me making trouble but the very hedgies you detest…..and btw didn’t she have to remove herself from the control of cognate as a result of the regulatory (SEC) authorities demanding it? Which was widely welcomed by all long shareholders at the time as being a good thing…..I’m done with you but I wish you well.
Ok so let me be less confrontational.
I agree the price cannot be made public…..exactly why I have very real concerns because we have a huge potential conflict of interest. It needs clearing up somehow but silence is not the answer…..
I can be persuaded by your argument because I’ve thought about that situation myself…..in truth I don’t know if it’s as you describe. Silence is not the answer however….
You are correct the site lease is owned by NWBO along with all the equipment inside. However we have no employees on the ground as they are all employed by Advent. My understanding is that the MHRA will audit Advent and the equipment they use and as such the licence will be given to Advent not Northwest Bio…..I mean just owning a lease and equipment cannot get you approved to make vaccines right?
The patent is owned by NWBO and it’s valuable if you sell it or NWBO can make money from going it alone. Both options are great but my second paragraph means Linda can potentially charge whatever she wants as without Advent we cannot supply anything and this price I agree will never be made public…..you bet a third party organisation would not hold such power of NWBO…..but Linda does.
Advent has no income so yes they are doing it on a shoestring and have provided bonafide project management of the site upgrade….nwbo shareholders have paid a fair price for that project mgt.
You may not have concerns and they may be nothing going on at all untoward but in the UK and Europe these kind of public / private relationships are not allowed because they lead to potential massive conflicts of interest. I am concerned and I believe it will eventually lead to either an abuse of office or used to start a new lawsuit and attack on Mgt……I’m not reassured you even take what I’m saying seriously.
I agree they have continued to hold onto the fight when many others would have bailed…..we got to this point and that is powerful and frankly provided many of us the opportunity to invest at much lower pricing and with warrants…..it’s all good but that does not mean that we should sit back and not question any of what they do and have done. That’s not healthy for any shareholder.
How would you feel for example if Advent produced the vaccine for NWBO at the same price as Cognate less say 5%? Is that a good deal for NWBO shareholders? If Advent supplied it at 25% of the price of Cognate then would that be a good deal. If that deal was fixed for a year or two and then increased to the same price as Cognate would you think that fair to NWBO shareholders? These questions are only asked because the company refer to Advent as Sawston (which is a village in which Advent is situated) and I maintain a great deal of NWBO shareholder money has been invested into Advent. So any potential profit made at Advent will come under real scrutiny.
If you can get anywhere with Mgt in finding out answers to any of the above it’s in the interest of all shareholders in NWBO and I for one would be a very happy shareholder…..if they would announce we are merging then I will be a very very happy shareholder…..and I also happen to think it might kill off a likely attack on them. So good news for everyone if you can get answers….but if we ignore this then we get what’s coming……
The difference previously with AF was that they were not in possession of results and couldn’t defend themselves……they are now but still behave and act like a hedgie will throw $2b at attacking them to pop the bubble and that the hedgie will use AF / P5 to front the attack……..but the chances of them attacking the science is now very low so the chances of them going after Mgt is the only option open to them so you would think they should be focused on transparency and good governance. If you have nothing to hide then being lawyers they should go after anyone attacking them using lies and falsehoods to cause a SP crash……but it’s always better in business to be open, transparent and communicate well if you want to create good relationships with shareholders and kill off any possibility that a plot to sink the stock might just fly…..it’s the opposite of what they are actually doing.
I personally think any hedgie that might have done this in the past has likely moved on to play elsewhere anyway having made millions shorting NWBO…..old news.
Seriously ? Send me over $5m and it’s a deal
It never started out like this……I remember pre the reverse split….the science will prevail eventually but let me make a prediction -
Just about anybody involved in this clinically knows this has enormous potential, every investor that has any relationship with Mgt has known for at least two years that this is a “home run” or we are at “the last yard”
Patients know it as well - the long line of people wanting to pay speaks volumes…..
My prediction is that when the results eventually get published it will be zero surprise to anyone ……Everyone will already know everything before the company eventually get around to publishing the results. They will be late climbing aboard their own train……
I’m not claiming anything……I think the science works end of story. I think it’s not acceptable to have a CEO stay in the background for years on end and to have virtually no contact with shareholders other than the bare minimum. I think it sucks to have a public company finance a private company and I think this obsession with being attacked is becoming an excuse….and I think the board of directors structure of having a Chair / CEO / CFO all as the same person means the NEDS we do have are all neutered to allow this type of weak governance to happen. It’s not uncommon for a CEO/Chair to be the same person but it usually makes it easier to run it like a private company…..which it is not.
The leadership is not structured to be a big pharma……
That said it will move up in SP on results then some of us will move on…..
Sorry, I genuinely don’t understand what you are trying to state?
Message boards are left to the extreme cranks on both wings - bears and bulls
On the one hand we have superficial nonsensical opinions against NWBO and to counter them we have those that are so blinded by the beautiful light they can’t stop themselves from pretending they are part of the company and see it as a personal crusade to go after anything or anyone remotely challenging what most would describe as “the bleeding obvious” stupid situation shareholders find themselves in…….everyone else in the middle either gives up or gets bored with trying to discuss anything reasonable that may or may not be an issue worth discussing.
My personal take is the beautiful light brigade are worse and do more damage than those with obvious financial incentives to short.
As many that want to pay for it…….my guess. Currently between 45-55 per month
Spoken like a gentleman that posts with reasonableness and objectivity - bravo to you for being such a champ
Let’s make some general assumptions -
The majority of shareholders are retail
We are on the OTC exchange and this is a compliance restricted stock for most institutions.
The vast majority of shareholders all think the science works and with the end point changes are likely to meet primary and secondary endpoints of their P3 trial
The majority know this is going to be in a leading journal
The majority know that Advent Bioservices Ltd is likely to be approved to contract manufacture DCVax for self paying patients being treated at Sawston in the UK - 45-55 per month in the very short term.
Anyone with a pulse can work this out with a single days meaningful DD
Mgt clearly believe the above is all required at a similar time to get the “mysterious” 900lbs gorilla off the back of the company which is holding the SP down and subsequently damage their ability to raise meaningful cash post TLD.
Any long investor needs to understand what the situation is and why Mgt see no alternative than to wait until all the ducks are lined up in a neat row. The risk of this being held down and attacked is clearly what Mgt spend morning noon and night worrying about. If it’s true or not I don’t know but mgt clearly believe it is a real threat because this is not just dependant on the science. It needs credibility and integrity beyond anything they can say or do and they need capacity to generate real cash. The way they have been attacked and sued in the past has not gone away……we just need to try and work out what will be the central thrust……my guess they will go after Mgt and not the science. Any cobwebs and loose ends need to be tied up and presented in a transparent way or it will simply come down to someone needing to throw $2B in cash at this problem to squash it back down…..and maybe they will or maybe they won’t but that’s got nothing to do with a science breakthrough.
I think you put that well. The irony is that this was what happened with Cognate / NWBO and changes to the ownership were forced into play. Interestingly I believe it was NWBO shareholder funds that mostly got Cognate out of the starting blocks. It already happened and yet it gets swept away and yet the changes in ownership of cognate brought about a new relationship between Cognate and NWBO…..we stopped funding them.
Arguments about CDMO is a red herring. I don’t recall ever being told during any of the funding rounds that my money was to be used to set up a third party CDMO…..I was told it’s being used to build up Sawston vital for the commercial success of DCVax. I was told we are going it alone and will become the leading biotech in the field of cancer. That’s why NWBO purchased Sawston in the first place…..
When the licence is awarded to make DCVax at Sawston on a commercial level do you believe that it will be in the name of Northwest Biotherapeutics or in the name of Advent Bioservices? It’s an important question because if it’s the later that means we will have no choice but to purchase the vaccine from them and it begs the question why did we pour so much money into buying the site, selling it for a profit to then kit it out without ever intending to benefit from the ability to operate it……running a CDMO is highly lucrative (cognate sold for a very good premium) and equally the ability to deliver commercial scale production of DCVax within Northwest Biotherapeutics is also valuable.
It could be that the transfer price between Advent and NWBO will be very low and that would be welcomed but it could also be just a few points off what an independent Cognate will charge and we know that is extremely lucrative…..we will never know that transfer price due to commercial confidentiality.
As for the fact we are protected by the auditors report….honestly tell that to the long list of shareholders caught up in scandals. It’s a joke and offers virtually no incentive to dig deeper than the light touch approach based on the auditor relying on the integrity of what they are told. That’s how the system works everywhere.
Everyone has a position and just as it’s obviously biased when you get opinions consistently attacking the science and Mgt. Equally you get others that go on the offensive when anyone raises any red flags about anything to do with corporate governance or the science. They act like employees defending the company when they are not……they are shareholders just like pretty much everyone that posts in here. All of these important questions raised are perfectly okay to ask and could simply be answered with clarity and transparency at any time by Mgt which ultimately is in the best interests of everyone involved, including them. Having been attacked relentlessly in the past I’ve no doubt they are very much aware of this fact and I’m relying on that to believe they will provide complete transparency on this matter.
The sale and lease back was a great deal and exactly as you described, additionally all the recent funding rounds have also help to build up Sawston and by association Advent.
We will have to wait until NWBO provide proper clarity on the situation but until then I’m just stating the facts that are known and not saying one way or the other if this is an appropriate arms length relationship. I simply don’t know the full details but I have a lot of unanswered questions on this matter with Mgt going back years. I do know that a lot of the recent funding rounds were for the scaling up of Sawston. Our cash was needed to build up Sawston . So we have all helped fund Sawston over the last few years. Looking at this as an outsider we have a CEO of one party deciding manufacturing contracts or transfer pricing to the owner of another party (and they are both the same individuals) and you don’t or cannot disclose in full that arrangement for reasons of commercial sensitivity then you create a situation which is not ideal for anyone including the CEO…just look at the situation with WeWork and Adam Neumann as an example. it would be helpful to have an independent auditor to specifically sign off on these transactions and not the appointed auditors. It will protect Mgt as much as it protects shareholders. I see Sawston and ultimately Advent as being entirely funded by the shareholders of NWBO. Now the confidential transfer price between Cognate and NWBO sets a genuine market price to manufacture DCVax…..so on that basis what price should Advent pay? Hopefully a very low price in comparison…..it’s not enough to make me want to sell my shares but it’s a niggle of mine that Mgt could address if they wanted to. Good luck and I’ve made my point and have no interest in playing ihub ping pong - it’s energy sapping.
Just to add the fixtures and fittings and equipment all housed in Sawston are the property of NWBO so won’t be on Advent Bio’s balance sheet.
As at the end of 2019 they had a balance sheet of £4.85m (made up of trade debt of £2.91m and cash in hand of £2.496m) less creditors of around £866k with just 11 staff on the books. The called up share capital paid by Toucon is listed as being one ordinary share of £1.00
Since 2019 Advent have recruited many more but as yet we don’t have any further financial information as they have opted to file the accounts not earlier than is legally required by companies house. We will see the finances of 2020 when they are filed…we are talking 20 months old financial data at this point.
That cash balance and trade debt is more than enough to fund the employment costs and additional hires. I can only assume that further project management charges to oversee the commercial build up of the site will have been invoiced… and I assume those fees are at standard project management rates which is perfectly reasonable.
I’m a long shareholder.
I understand the concept and it may prove to be an excellent strategy as you suggest. It’s not clear to me yet where this will all end up. NWBO own the lease on the building and have funded all the equipment kit out and expenses to date so the rationale of structuring it this way to avoid huge start up costs cannot be true.
It is a good hedge for these facilities to have potential third party income but I had always assumed (maybe incorrectly) that we were building this facility to support the demand generated by DCVax and to grow from a minnow to a pike in the pond of pharmaceutical players.
At a guess the fee paid as project management to advent by NWBO is where the wages are paid from.
Are you looking at the accounts of nwbo or advent bio services?
The freehold was owned by NWBO but was sold and leased back to NWBO…..I presumed that cash was the source of their kit out funding.
Wow….that’s quite a lot of assumptions here but it’s helpful to understand the possible reasons for its current structure. Has what you posted been confirmed by an attributable source at NWBO or is this just an informed guess?
I had always assumed as Advent does not have an operational license yet and as such no meaningful income then the equipment and running costs to date was paid for by shareholders of NWBO with small contributions from self paying patients out of the lab in London? Is it the case this investment was all funded by Toucon Holdings? Thanks in advance
I agree with your estimate and point…..I like balanced opinions, bullish or bearish but over 10 years of being invested I’ve learned to live with the fact that we have posters from both extreme ends of the investing spectrum that are all drinking from the same fountain of fantasy. Makes me chuckle now…
Very long and holding on!
I think you may have under estimated that…..I just spoke with somebody who has no experience of the pharma industry, investing in shares or delivering new technologies and he took a look at this on his tea break from herding sheep in North Yorkshire and said with conviction that this will go to $250.00 per share. He is a pretty smart guy so I guess he could be right……
This is him in action with his dog -
I agree June/July for TLD…..is also my guess
Well staying positive….looking forward fiASCO 2022
Good point ….some less friendly posters might also claim she also puts our money on the line while remaining silent for five years.
I say that silence has brought amazing opportunities. Over 12 years of investing in NWBO has delivered to me the best return I’ve ever had in a public stock….and they haven’t even released TLD yet, imagine what that might bring in terms of returns for shareholders. Looking forward to the coming months.
https://www.braintumourresearch.org/media/news/news-item/2021/05/12/life-sciences-sector-encouraged-by-queen-s-speech
Worth a read….cancer gets a mention.
Neil Woodford announces a new fund with a focus on biotech. Opportunity for him and NWBO or should they run a mile....?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/13/exclusive-neil-woodford-launch-comeback-fund-says-sorry-did/
It’s late at night and only a few NWBO longs are left at the party.....DI requests a slow dance with anyone that will mooch with him
That’s at least better than an Edmund Fitzgerald conversation lol
She is in charge of the self help section on the top shelf
Well said Gus....agree
Thanks Bob I kind of see it differently in the case of NWBO. Linda is senior management and also controls the board as Chairperson....she appoints the non execs who in turn approve the Mgt bonuses who in turn get rewarded by Linda for their efforts, take Navid Malik for example....he has a shed load of warrants and he is a non executive. So he is either a non exec and independent or he is part of the executive team earning those warrants by working for the company reporting to Linda....take your pick but he cannot be both...
I’m long and not going to sell and have consistently invested over many years but I’ve equally maintained a consistent approach that most non executives that sit on a rem committee link executive options to the share price over a given period. In the case of NWBO it’s based on milestones unknown and set by the very people that then benefit from those options.....and it’s not linked to the share price unfortunately.
I do genuinely like talking to mgt on an individual basis and I’m positive and excited about my investment but this area of options at NWBO sits uncomfortably with me if I’m honest.
Lol I hope after TLD the shares go up