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<<"master deceivers" commonly known as Lucifer or Satan and their "fallen angel" cohorts.>>
You’ve gotten familiar with the role played by, for instance, the Khazarian Zionists (who invented the word "Jew" to disguise their adopted heritage, as distinguished from the biblical Judeans), or the role played by the Banksters (banking gangsters) controlling the economies of the world, by the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, the Committee of 300 (the 17 wealthiest so-called "elite" families)—the Rothschild's in England and Rockefellers in America and Bronfman's in Canada, and on and on, comprising the physical power structure of the New World Order puppets under the direction of darkly motivated, other-dimensional "master deceivers" commonly known as Lucifer or Satan and their "fallen angel" cohorts.
This is OK as far as it goes. But some key players have been omitted. The Catholic church with the antichrist known as the Pope, the Illuminati, and the Grey UFO aliens with their anal probes.
While I see how Bush and especially Cheney could be confused with satan or demons, there is no evidence that they are anything but ordinary stupid and evil men.
On a more serious note, in the nicest way I can say it, Todd might want to think about a reality check and maybe even some medical care.
EDIT:I also cannot prove that there isn't a Great Menacing Spaghetti Monster that lives on the opposite side of the sun from here. This is slander!!! The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a very benign deity. THE FSM heaven has Stripper factories and beer volcanoes. AFAIK, there isn't even a FSM hell.
Dow overbought ST. RSI(5) is 74 down from 80. I would expect a pullback soon. If my rally scenario is correct, might not be much of a pullback. Dow sitting at breakout resistance, now support right now at slightly under 9K.
Even though the NASDAQ and DOW are slightly down, this looks like a healthy market. Lot of green on my screens, a lot of big moves in selected stocks, SNDK and some energies, coal.
TBT, 2X reverse TLT, has been on a tear the last 3 days, up $2.12 to 41+. Long term bonds looked like a bubble and it looks like the bubble is deflating. TLT is the Lehman 20 year bond index.
<<Os> Do you have any concern about the lack of volume on this breakout?>>
Good point. Not too much. Volume was light, but it is day after a holiday on a friday.
Nor do I have much confidence that this rally was more than a fast and furious bear market move. But we are way off the lows of November, Dow 7500 to 9000.
I would be more convinced if there had been another leg down retesting 7500 and a longer base.
But it could have been the bottom at end 2008.
1. Panic selling is over. The market isn't going to crash and make everyone broke. It already did that.
2. Forced redemptions are over. Anyone with huge leverage has been deleveraged or wiped out.
3. The bank and wall street failures are mostly over for now. Hardly anyone on WS is left standing. I'm sure there will be more but it won't be one every day. Plus the fed has gotten good at bailing out companies with imaginary money and IOUs given to our grandchildren.
4. All the massive governmental countercyclical rain of money should do something. Zero interest rates as well. It usually takes a minimum of 6 months for fiscal stimulus to show up in the economy.
5. The sideline money. This crash was unusual in that almost all asset classes crashed, housing, commodities, stocks.
My best guess is that there will be a on balance choppy up and down rally for Q1. Then if the economy keeps falling and the earnings and stats are terrible and don't pick up, anothe leg down. Since this information doesn't yet exist, it is just a scenario.
The famous WS saying, "This time it is different". Works both ways, the markets crash frequently and always are followed by a bull market.
Just throwing out a wild guess here. I can and will change my mind in a heartbeat if new data warrants it. Or we could just be range bound between say, 7500 and 10,000 for all of 2009 as hope collides with reality several times.
Looks like a breakout on the DOW. I had support and resistance at 8,000 and 9,000 and it is above 9k with a few minutes left.
This bear market rally could have legs. We are past the panic selling and forced redemption stage. No more banks are failing on a daily basis although more could in the future.
Pretty much what I said a few days ago.
"Support is at 8,000, resistance 9,000. A tell would be a convincing close breaking support or resistance.
Having been out of the markets mostly for a while and in cash, it could be time to scale back in."
My current wild guess. We rally on balance for a few months. Q1 earnings will be terrible. The economic stats will be terrible. If there aren't signs of a pickup in the economy, another leg down. If the economy shows signs of bottoming, the bottom was in November.
<<suddenly everybody on cnbc is writing off 2009 totally -which of the indexes are sending this doomsday signal? Are you saying do not go long in 2009?>>
I don't pay any attention to CNBC, never watch it. Paying attention to CNBC has generally proven to be a good way to lose money.
My post was just doing TA on the DOW, we are either in an extended bear flag, meaning another leg down or making at least a short term bottom. A break below 8,000 or above 9,000 would indicate one or the other. At this point, everyone, including me is just guessing without information that does not yet exist.
Parking money is tricky and I have given it a lot of thought without any good ideas, in cash, money market funds. This is a huge problem for everyone, must be trillions in sideline money right now. In the present deflationary environment, cash is an appreciating asset in buying power but the deflation won't last too long.
Nimble day traders should do OK. Zeev wasn't really a day trader. He was more like a minute or hour trader. My trading account is still net positive but I can't watch the screens minute by minute all day. When every position went positive and then stopped out, it was time to exit the market and wait for a signal. This was in July, 2007.
<<Holding stocks through earnings is still a crap shoot even in a good economy,
Yes, I've seen that. Stock runs up into earnings. No matter what the earnings are good, bad, or neutral, it drops the day afterwards.
I have two accounts, LTB&H (judiciously, long term doesn't mean forever and losers get sold) and trading short term. Over time the LTB&H has made more money. Dividends add up, and most stocks sort of sit there but a few have run and run and made up for all the rest.
As Buffett and all the rest say, this crash should be the buying opportunity of several decades at least. Buying crashes has worked well in the past. At the end of the day, I was always too cautious, went in with smaller than normal positions and kept a lot of cash and still did well.
<<I was kinding or praying that we might get a little rally into the New Year, you know that optimistic Bear Market rally, where we think that the worse is over with, even with all of these stimulus packages, and a new President, reality will set in. The real economy and its numbers will surface, and people will begin to realize that they still have alot of debt, the country has alot more debt, and the economy is chugging along, but no real pick-up will occur. Therefore we get that final leg down, and stocks get thrown out with the bath water.>>
That is what happened with the last bubble, NASDAQ Y2K. There was a rally about year 1 post crash. The fundamentals wouldn't support it and the rally failed and ended up going through the bottom and setting another bottom.
A lot of people thought the first bottom was the real one and got burned pretty badly. The whole crash took 2 1/2 years and never even got near 5K again. The problem with getting burned too many times, you lose your mental capital and can't take advantage of the inevitable rallies.
Wouldn't surprise me if we had a 4 month rally early next year. If the economy doesn't follow through, followed by another crash to DOW 6K or so. At this point, no reason to guess, the information needed doesn't exist yet.
Dow TA. I just eyeballed the Dow chart. We could be forming a bottom. The formation is either a bear flag, meaning a break down, or a bottom forming. It is a bit long for a flag or pennant.
To my mind, we should have another leg down. We have passed almost all the stages of a bear cycle, now in Irrational Pessimism. We have not really entered Abject Despair where market participants leave stocks for good and no one really cares much or believes the market will ever rally.
That and a $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
More realistically, no one knows where the bottom is yet. "Information evolves slowly in bear markets, Hussman." We simply don't have enough info. Probably no more banks will fail. The feds have gotten proficient at bailing them out with imaginary money.
Support is at 8,000, resistance 9,000. A tell would be a convincing close breaking support or resistance.
Having been out of the markets mostly for a while and in cash, it could be time to scale back in. I don't believe that there is any hurry. With this broken market and horrendous economy, any rallies tend to be tentative and short. If the Dow gets back to 14,000, this could take a year or even much longer.
APWR warned today. Rev. down 50%
<<For the 2008 fourth quarter, the Company now expects revenue to be approximately $76 million and net income to be approximately $5 million. Both revenue and net income guidance are now lower than previous guidance of $158 million and $15.5 million, respectively.>>
Gee, this company has China, wind, and energy in its operations. Their 4th Q revenue is 50% below guidance. For Q1 2009, we will see a lot of this. The consumers are in bomb shelters and not spending. Because the economy and credit have collapsed, capital spending is way down. There will be a steady drumbeat of earnings surprises (negative) and dismal corporate results for 4Q 2008, reporting next year. Whether this bad news is baked into the stock market prices is an open question.
The SEC has turned out to be all but nonfunctional. Even McCain said Cox was an idiot who should be fired.
There have been reports about what it is like to work at the SEC. Not all staffers are chair warming drones, some start work there as diligent employees and even get some things done.
Basically, they are encouraged to do nothing. People spend their days playing video games on the computer, surfing the net, reading, taking care of family business, and catching up on their sleep. In other words goofing off with managerial approval. Sounds like an easy job but many get tired of doing nothing and quit for real jobs.
Windows XP versus Vista. I'm about to replace my home system and have already picked out a medium range machine with 2 gb of RAM and a fast cpu. The problem I'm running into is that HP only offers vista installed as part of the package.
Everything I've read says that Vista is a slow memory hog and XP is far better. Microsoft knows this but is making it very hard for people to get XP.
Just how bad is Vista? I may end up going linux Ubuntu or buying XP and installing it myself.
<<"war on Christmas" nonsense seems a lot quieter this year.>>
Yes, really. The War on Xmas never existed. WHich means the War on the War on Xmas didn't either. It was just invented by Bill O'Reilly and Bill Donahue so they had something to rant and rave about. O'Reilly is still gibbering about it, but he is a one trick pony, all he can do is babble.
And no one cares anymore. They have a zillion more important things to think about and do.
The War on Halloween was more or less a failure as well. No one believes that if kids celebrate Halloween they will end up worshipping ghosts and demons.
Darth Cheney is just evil. He knows it, knows we know it, and doesn't care.
The reason he ran as VP instead of President is also known. With all the personality and charm of a cobra, he was unelectable.
Cheney started shredding papers years ago when his buddies Libby and Rove were indicted for outing a CIA agent. He is just going to shred whatever he wants to and dare anyone to go after him. It will probably work.
<<Troopers charged Johnston with second-degree misconduct involving a controlled substance -- generally manufacturing or delivering drugs -- as well as fourth-degree misconduct involving controlled substances, or possession.>>
Too funny. For all the god babbling and god botting, Palin has done, it hasn't seemed to do much good.
According to her, "Marriage is a sacred and forced act between two unwilling teen agers who found out how babies are made the hard way and too late."
This qualifies her to be a subBush class president. Haven't heard anything about the future marriage between the two unfortunate kids. And Levi Johnston is reported to have dropped out of high school and hasn't been seen around in a while. ROTFLMAO.
Speaking of investment ideas: Should be some screaming buys when the dust settles.
Everything is being taken down, the good, the bad, the ugly. Partly this is because no one is sure which is which right now. The rating agencies have been shown to be worthless.
Nevertheless, good companies will survive. People will always be buying goods and services. I'm looking at top rated corporate bonds right now. They've been dumped for cash. Not too sure how to play this, must be investment rated corporate bond funds and ETFs. Vanguard has one.
Not risk free but after the year end, most of the failed bonds should be marked down and tossed.
John Mauldin Dec. 13, 2008
Free Money with that Credit Default Swap?
Today there are bonds you can buy and get the interest coupon, and then purchase a credit default swap (insurance) on the loan that is less than the interest you will get on the loan. Assuming you have a creditworthy seller of the credit default swap, it is risk-free money. You can make almost 1% on the spread! Lever that up a few times and it becomes interesting. (Except that you can no longer get money to really leverage it enough.) This should not be. Then why is it?
Because "... assets everywhere are being dumped in favor of cash, and corporate bonds are no exception. Second, corporate bonds are no longer that attractive as collateral for funding because counterparts are demanding more onerous terms in exchange for lending out cash in return." (The Financial Times)
The corporate bond market is assuming an Armageddon Scenario. Barclays Capital writes that one would have to assume that US GDP will contract by 15% to make sense of the current bond spreads.
My friend and partner Nick Rees at Absolute Return Partners in London dropped me this note (emphasis mine):
"Leveraged loans had a particularly rough month with the average senior secured loan losing over 20 points in value and now trading in the mid 60s. The sell-off was largely driven by forced liquidations as hedge funds face substantial redemptions in the run-in to New Year. This is how crazy the loan market is: The worst ever default rate for senior secured loans is about 8%. If you assume a 35% annual default rate and a 50% recovery rate, your IRR to maturity is now in excess of 22%, using no leverage whatsoever. Either this is the investment opportunity of the century, or equity markets have seriously underestimated the economic downturn, and things are likely to get a whole lot worse for equity investors."
Formerly stable credit funds that are mark-to-market are posting horrific numbers. Many of them have closed redemptions until the market comes back. Selling a fully secured loan at 60 cents on the dollar makes no sense; and many investors are happy the funds have closed, as forced selling by other investors would lock in their losses when the loans will surely recover much of the current markdowns over time. But forced selling by some funds mean that all funds have to mark down the loans to today's value. Mark-to-market in this context is appropriate but it is still hard on your psychology while you wait, and especially as loans seem to keep dropping in value.
Some of the content in Tim's article is not factual and lack
depth!
Yes. I got about half way through and decided if Tim whoever was just going to string lies together, it wasn't worth 15 more seconds of my time. And this guy claims to be a historian! My cat could do better.
Not blaming the Republicans (who without their votes this never would have passed
Of course the Theothuglicans are mostly responsible for the bailout.
1. They proposed it. They wrote it up as a bill. They submitted it to congress and they rounded up the votes. Bush is president, Paulson is treasury sec.. Paulson is the architect of the whole bailout as well as the administrator. Paulson is a republican, serving under a republican president.
2. Bush could have vetoed the bill. He didn't. That is because he wanted it, and wanted it badly.
3. More significantly, the GOP is responsible for this whole mess that has destroyed our economy and a lot of people's lives. They controlled the government for the last 8 years.
Some of the dems went along with it. At this point, the ship of state is sinking fast. The dems really couldn't be seen sitting back and blocking efforts to salvage what they can. The GOP has 300 million hostages, a lot of leverage there.
If the GOP hadn't screwed up in the first place, there wouldn't have been a need for bailouts. When all you have are lies, you got nothing.
These rejected the religion of the Bible and placed their new faith in science, evolution and psychology."
Actually religious influence on science and society were once prominent in Europe. We call that time the Dark Ages. The crowning achievements were the burning murders of tens of thousands of alleged witches, the Black Death, and the burning at the stake of Giordano Bruno for daring to claim that the earth orbits the sun.
The progressives were a new breed of educator that came on the scene around the turn of the century. These rejected the religion of the Bible and placed their new faith in science, evolution and psychology. "
WOW!!! Is that stupid or what.
1. The "progressives" actually took over during the age of enlightenment and the Rennaissance, 400 years ago. That is why our civilization is a high tech one, lifespans are 30 years longer than even a century ago, and we no longer have bloody religious wars in the west. Even the Northern Irish finally gave them up a whole 8 years ago. The Moslems OTOH, haven't figured it out yet.
2. Science and evolution, at least works. Putting your "faith" in internal combustion engines, electricity, the germ theory of disease, and evolution works quite well overall.
3. In any event, science has nothing to do with religion. Roughly 40% of scientists including some prominent evolutionary biologists are religious. Evolution is taught at most Xian universites, BYU, Notre Dame, Texas Christian, Baylor, Nazarene, SMU, etc..
Vexari is an abstract thinker and writer
No idea who Vexari is, probably hit my ignore list a few years ago. Clearly he is a deluded, ignorant fool. Babbling on the internet when it is too cold to grab the old shopping cart and wheel it around the park looking for recyclable cans while raving incoherently.
I sold my last gnta for $12.50/share. This was some years ago, 2002 or thereabouts.
Didn't think much of the Warrells, genasense, or gnta even back then. Go ahead call me a basher and I'll keep the $12.50/share and my sanity.
GNTA was a real riot with heavily invested posters threatening the so called bashers on a daily basis. It wasn't funny when genasense was shot down by the FDA advisory panel and one guy lost $650,000 in one day and ended up owing his broker for margin calls. Last I heard of him he was threatening to kill his wife's cat, his wife, and himself, in that order.
Yahoo workers will learn of layoffs Wed - source
Well Happy Holidays and Merry Xmas to yahoo employees. I've been keeping one eye out and the number of companies warning and/or laying off employees is astonishing.
In the corporate world, it used to be considered tacky to lay people off around the holidays.
Edit: I expect a steady drumbeat of bad news on the macro economics and individual company fronts for a while. Whether this will be enough for another leg down remains unclear. Certainly right now, the market is more or less ignoring bad news.
Infrastructure plays are screaming up 10-20% today.
I'm making a watch list.
Steel gna
cement rmix txi rmx exp cx
construction flr gva
Anyone got any suggestions. Post them.
The time to buy was this morning. But there should be pullbacks and dips. Obama doesn't even take office until 2009 and the programs haven't been enacted yet. And this market doesn't hold onto its gains.
Only 7% of Americans buy the Obama-Arab Moslem terrorist from Kenya lie, according to polls. All of them are Theothuglicans.
What this says is that 7% of the US population are morons. Which is already known. To put it in perspective, 20% of the US population thinks the sun orbits the earth. 24% think Bush is a good president. Some people will believe anything, no matter how dumb it is, flat earth, Sarah Palin, fairies in the garden.
wikipedia:
Morris Berman quotes survey results that show currently some 20% of the USA population believe that the sun goes around the Earth (geocentricism) rather than the Earth goes around the sun (heliocentricism), while a further 9% claimed not to know.[6]
As a moron detector, it works as well as any, creationism, geocentrism, flat earthism, etc.. You can be certain that anyone who believes it is a moron. Also noteworthy is that the Texans are off the chart at 23% Obama Kenyanism. This must reflect ongoing genetic and neurological catastrophes on the southern border.
Buying opportunity for solid companies coming? That is the conventional Buffett wisdom, buy solid, well managed companies at the bottom of a crash.
Problem is, which companies are solid and well managed these days. All the big banks and GE could well end up like Citibank. No one knows what landmines are on their books and you can't believe what they say. Banks typically have said, "no problems, looking good, manageable exposure, BOOM, BK." It is possible that the BofA, Wells Fargo, GS, and GE could all end up zombies.
<<U.S. mortgages in foreclosure at record pace, MBA says
10:00 AM ET, Dec 05, 2008>>
We are still seeing an avalanche of bad news getting worse and negative feedback loops operating.
Soon, with unemployment up, jobs down, we should start seeing credit card debt and auto loans failing, BKs higher.
All our trading partners are getting hit too.
Where it ends, no one knows. My wild guess based on fundamentals and historical severe recessions, another leg down sometime. The NASDAQ crash of 2000 took 2 1/2 years to bottom, we are now in year 1 of the DOW crash.
Of course, there will be bear rallies. The market never does anything simple or fast.
Yes, shorting from last year would have worked well.
I usually don't short but gave it a try. Didn't work for me.
Mostly my large ebroker either didn't have a borrow or wanted money for it. The obvious shorts were way too crowded and it was hard to get in.
It would have worked better to short using the index ETFs but by the time I gave up on individual stocks, the crash was well under way.
It's OK, sitting on my hands worked well.
Some of those subprime loans were so bogus that foreclosure was inevitable. The banks knew it which is why they dumped their "Toxic Waste" as soon as possible.
One young couple I know bought a house. The interest was 12% resetting to...18%. I told them that their mortgage would eat them alive.
They couldn't refinance when the reset hit, 12 to 18. Got lucky and sold out even, right before housing really started downhill.
//<<preservation of capital is the name of the game.>>
absolutely agree
(or earning more money owning ultra short ETFs'-00)
The other name is Buy low, sell high.
For people who do preserve capital, somewhere down the line will be a fantastic buying opportunity. As Buffett points out everyone knows this but few people can buy when everyone is selling.
This is because there is another form of capital that is just as important. Mental capital. Usually people have lost so much money by the time the market bottoms and seen people burned to zero that they just give up and go do something else.
I still think it is too early to sort out the good from the bad and ugly. Some people think all the money center banks will end up like citicorp, BofA, Wells Fargo, etc.. We've all seen the mantra once too often, "every things fine, going OK, no BK, BOOM, bailout/BK. If a bank says there are doing all right, it usually means they are on the verge of bankruptcy.
<<She estimates .. $2 trillion worth of credit [card] lines>>
The credit card companies will probably get hammered. Pretty standard in a serious economic downturn.
I know 2 people who are running up large credit card debts right now. Both have unforseen nontrivial medical bills.
One is solvent and might be able to pay them back. Or not.
The other one probably hasn't a candle's chance in hell of doing so.
<<Who was the "fool" proclaiming a bottom last week>>
The Markit Eurozone Purchasing Managers Index for the manufacturing sector slumped to 35.6 in November, the lowest ever in the survey's 11-year history.
The grim reading reinforced expectations the European Central Bank would cut interest rates later this week to 2.5 percent or even lower.
Wasn't me. "Information evolves slowly in recessions, John Hussman"
There are a lot of negative feedback loops reinforcing each other right now. Europe is heading into recession. Japan is in one, China not looking great either. Those are our trading partners.
Housing still falling, banks still very shakey.
I don't see a bottom in sight even. Based on fundamentals which are grim. And history. The NASDAQ bottomed 2 1/2 years after its peak in 2000. We are at year 1 on the Dow. A wild ass guess with negligible confidence might be 2Q 2009. It takes about 6 months minimum for financial stimuli to work its way through the economy. The fed just started cutting interest rates to zero and bailing in 3Q. Really in this environment, preservation of capital is the name of the game.
<<Texas is the only state with a legal right to secede from the Union.>>
Got to have a civil war first. 44% of Texans voted for Obama. Contrary to the myths, not all Texans are inbred ignorants. I assume that it will be Hispanics, minorities, and the educated against the stupid godbots. Just hope Mexico doesn't decide to "liberate" their former territory as well.
No one would miss Texas. The problem comes with the nukes. 20 minutes after Texas left, San Francisco, Seattle, Washington DC, and New England would disappear. 20 minutes after that and the Gulf Coast would start around Kansas. 500 years later, a new Columbus would rediscover the New World and find a race of very large, very intelligent cockroaches.
<<managed to turn 1.2 million into 180,000>>
Ouch!!! Reminds me of the dot.com meltdown. I knew several people with 1-3 million USD portfolios who ended up at zero, or below (margin). The strains such losses put on individuals and families is enormous. Some don't even survive.
60% of US households have exposure to the market, mostly 401Ks, pension funds, and IRAs. The average 201K is probably down about 50% since they will roughly mirror the market.
One estimate I read is that US citizens have lost 12 trillion so far in wealth, housing price declines and stock market losses. It is likely to get worse.
So far we are looking at the Great Recession of 2008. Just hope it doesn't get worse.
Saving a nation of people is a wonderful thing.
Sure is. That is why the Moronothuglicans lost and Obama will be our next president. After Bushco finishes their trashing job and issues themselves pardons, the USA will be and is in urgent need of saving.
WALL STREET BAILOUT TO COST $8.5 TRILLION!!!!!
It is getting bigger. Last week it was a mere 7 trillion.
This is another part of the reverse genius effect of Bushco. In Keyneisan economics, one is supposed to run surpluses in good times. During recessions one runs deficits to attenuate the normal business cycle. Making hay while the sun shines while preparing for a rainy day.
The moronothuglicans ran huge deficits during the good times. Leaving us with absolutely no room for countercyclical spending during a recession.
No telling how long it will take Obama to dig us out of this hole. Could be years, could be decades. The Depression lasted a decade.
Bushco has done more damage to us than the Soviets or Al-Qaida ever did. Truly a weapon of Mass Financial Destruction from Texas has torched the world's economies.
Probably the kids are home schooled. And the curriculum is heavy on acting lessons. This cult seems to be making a few bucks off of kiddie porn.
The usual, in these cults, god's plan invariably seems to be for old men to have sex with lots of teen age girls while the members give them large quantities of money. And of course, they all hate the politicly right wing correct groups.
Arkansas invaded by demented Xian child rapers:
Arkansas has a problem alright. A group of Xian cultists has established a Waco style toxic community involved in the usual, mostly raping children.
But they can't be all bad. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, describes the ministry as a cult that rails against homosexuals, Roman Catholics and the government. I guess if you claim to be a Xian and hate a few groups, that excuses everything.
Attorney: 8 new charges filed against jailed Alamo
By JON GAMBRELL – 3 days ago
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) — Jailed evangelist Tony Alamo faces eight new federal charges after his arrest for allegedly taking children across state lines for sex, his lawyer said Tuesday.
John Wesley Hall Jr. said the new charges are similar to those Alamo already faces — violations of the Mann Act, a federal law that bans carrying women or girls across state lines for "prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose." Hall said the sealed indictment includes the original two charges.
It's "the same kind of stuff, just more of it," Hall said.
Debbie Groom, a spokeswoman for the U.S. attorney's office for the Western District of Arkansas, declined to specify the charges included in the new indictment. She said a federal judge would have to decide on whether to unseal the charges for public viewing.
The charges, filed Monday, come after Alamo testified in a closed court hearing that he "spiritually" married and divorced multiple women who continued to live with him, Hall said.
Alamo never married the women in a legal sense, Hall said, though Alamo said he provided what "some people would have to do in the form of alimony in the traditional divorce."
"He said he doesn't take up with more than one woman at a time, and I said, 'That's not polygamy,'" the lawyer said. "When he moves onto another female, he stops having sex with the prior ones, but he feels obligated through the Bible to support them."
Alamo also acknowledged he knew that several members of his congregation were "spanked" over disciplinary matters, Hall said.
State child welfare officials have seized 26 children associated with the Alamo ministries since September, citing stories of alleged beatings and sexual abuse.
In a court filing, Alamo pleaded not guilty to the new charges and waived an arraignment hearing.
Arkansas State Police and federal agents raided Alamo's compound at Fouke on Sept. 20, searching for evidence that children there had been molested or filmed having sex. Five days later, FBI agents arrested the evangelist as he left a hotel in Flagstaff, Ariz.
Since establishing his ministries in Arkansas, Alamo has been a controversial and flamboyant figure, with former President Clinton once likening him to "Roy Orbison on speed." The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, describes the ministry as a cult that rails against homosexuals, Roman Catholics and the government.
Alamo was convicted of tax-related charges in 1994 and served four years in prison after the Internal Revenue Service said he owed the government $7.9 million. Prosecutors in that case argued that Alamo was a flight risk and a polygamist who preyed on married women and girls in his congregation.
Alamo faces trial in February on the 10 federal charges. Hall said he may ask a judge for more time to prepare a defense because of the new charges.
<<until some girl with large breasts starting dancing>>
--Benzo-schizophrenic
WTF??? Hmmm, what is wrong with girls or even women with large breasts? I realize a few people like guys with large "packages" but that is no reason to criticize women who just happen to be a little top heavy.
<<Newt Gingrich, has a gay sister.>>
Whatever. Cheney's daughter is married to another woman and they have a kid.
These morons should think about themselves and their own behavior before they start throwing stones at other peope.
<<Tony Perkins..insists..Repub party not conservative enough>>
Tony Perkins is an idiot and a christofascist from Dobson's Focus on Overthrowing the Government.
Focus on Sedition is losing money and members for a few years now. They have laid off 1/3 of their staff with the latest being a few days ago.
People are sick of these wingnuts and the brightest and best of them are leaving.
1. FonOTTG spent of few decades pushing Patriarchy, the commandment (which only Dobson can find) that women should stay home and not work or lead what we consider a normal life these days. Then Dobson picked a woman with 5 kids, one a newborn Downs Syndrome baby, as VP candidate, Sarah Palin.
The astounding hypocracy and inconsistency wasn't lost on the brighter followers, especially the women.
2. Perkins and Dobson picked Palin for VP, a matter of common knowledge. Palin undoubtedly gained the Theothuglicans a few percentage points from the christofascists but lost more from normal people.
Listening to Dobson and Perkins is a proven route to failure. The religious right has never been about religion anyway. It is about gaining power and money and religion and hatred are just their standard tools. It is Fascism 101.
Ouch!!! Even though I am mostly in North American Pesos (formerly known as the US dollar), this is getting spooky. Dow 7500, nasdaq no better. Cash or not, we still live in the USA and if the ship of state sinks, we all sink with it unless people start emigrating or something.
The TA, FA, and sentiment all pointed in this direction yesterday. They still do. Housing is still failing, autos are failing, consumers aren't spending, manufacturing down, unemployment up and worldwide recession while the inept bailouts fail. Not saying things are bad, saying with the perfect storm coming together, they can get worse.