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"Sarah Palin has problems with her kids like most of the rest of us do"
Oh really? So your son is a drunken oakie, in trouble with the law for pointless and stupid vandalism, and can't get it together to get a college education.
Your 17 year old daughter got knocked up by someone a lot like your son, only not biologicly related and his mom is a drug pusher. She dropped out of high school and shows no interest in college either.
Sorry to hear about that. My condolences. What part of Lower Boondockistan do you live in anyway? Not that I want to visit, but if I ever fly over it, I'll ask the pilot to go around.
The point is that Sarah Palin is a god babbling christofascist creep who like them all, is just hypocritical and a liar. She is also dumb and ignorant like them all. None of this would matter, the trailer parks are full of such. They aren't leadership quality either.
PS I know how you feel. My girl friend's daughter got pregnant too. Of course, she was in her mid 20's, had a job, a college degree, had a husband. came from a good family, and a bunch of other things. Of course, she has also had some problems just like Palin and Bristol. Hmmm, let's see. Well, her cat is way too fat.
Levi Johnson is a punk, a high school drop-out etc.
You left out that his mother was arrested for selling oxycontin, a synthetic opiate.
Palin's oldest kid was rumored to have been involved with drinking and not so petty vandalism, cutting the brake lines of school buses among other things. He joined the army rather than go to college.
Most people when they are being polite describe Palin and her daughter's sperm donor as Alaskan hillbillies.
A sign of the absolute intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the GOP that they can't find anyone without a lot of baggage and with any brains or character.
Jigfish just posted an old lie.
It is false that the ACLU is trying to remove military cross shaped headstones.
www.snopes.com/politics/religion/cemetery.asp
It is also old, dating back to at least 2003.
This is why the majority of the US population, according to polls, is sick and tired of wingnut fundies. They are always lying about something.
“One of the reasons these techniques have been used for about 500 years is that they work,”
That isn't true at all. Torture and murder threats work well for ethnic cleansing, genocide, and forced conversions.
The Inquisition found and burned an unknown number of witches, maybe into the hundreds of thousands.
The probability is that few or none of those people were witches. One of the reasons they stopped hunting witches is that the tangible evidence that they existed was nil and the evidence that witchcraft actually accomplished anything was zero.
Anyone could be a witch. It could be your neighbors, your family, your kids. It could even be....YOU. Everyone who was tortured turned out to be a witch.
The don't call them christofascists for nothing. Graham and Cheney were born 500 years too late. In times past they would be murdering infidels, heretics, and apostates on a massive scale and laughing like the maniacs they are.
emulate...insurgency tactics...Taliban. HUH?? WTF!!!
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), the chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, is perhaps best known for arguing that his party should emulate the insurgency tactics of the Taliban.
The Taliban were murderous religious fanatics who were busily destroying Afghanistan's culture and society when we rudely interrupted them. They were heading into the familiar genocide territory of Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge.
Advocating armed overthrow of the US government is sedition and treason, both felonies. Explain to me again, who really hates the United States?
Guy is crazier than Michelle Bachmann or Sarah Palin. A real accomplishment. Bachmann just wants to hunt witches, I mean Democrats, oops, I mean "anti-Americans."
<<Republicans low... now below 20%...>>
About the same percentage who still "think" the sun orbits the earth.
source wikipedia Geocentrism:
A study done in 2005 by Dr. Jon C. Miller of Northwestern University, an expert in the public understanding of science and technology, found that one adult American in five thinks that the sun revolves around the earth.
You have to be very stupid and ignorant to not be able to diagram the solar system. The brighter among them might wonder how we get our space probes out to Mars and Saturn without running into the sun. If they even knew we had space probes. For the morons, one in five as a percentage is ....20%.
I'm sure there is a huge overlap between the two 20% groups.
<<They are approaching the 20% who believe in magic spells.>>
20% of the US population thinks the sun orbits the earth. It is 26% of the fundie xians. Most of those are republicans, the party of hate, bigotry, and ignorance.
Copernicus proposed his heliocentric theory 400 years ago. I guess it can take a millennia or two for simple facts to work their way through a population.
<<Henry Niman: prophet of doom for the Internet>>
Henry is a nut but he can be amusing at times.
The airlines are going to get hit again. The stocks have already started dropping. People aren't going to be traveling to Mexico for sure unless they have to.
If the USA has any more cases, they aren't going to be traveling here either.
I found an US airlines ETF but the volume was low, probably impossible to short it.
<<What is the ratio of deaths to infections in the US - in fact have there been any deaths in the US?>>
There is one now. The conspiracy theorists have already weighed in. The Illuminati, UFO aliens, and Obama did it. Next up are the god smiters. The End Of the World Any Day folks are already popping champagne bottles in their bomb shelters. Going to be a great time for some segments of the population.
This flu seems to be mostly mild, no where near comparable to the 1918 Spanish flu. A lot we don't know, need a case fatality rate and other data ASAP.
As to what will happen. Seen one pandemic, seen one pandemic. They are all different. It could just die out in the summer like most. The problem is if it gets into the third world and the Southern hemisphere. Flu really likes winter and they are just starting theirs.
WRAPUP 6-Texas flu death first outside Mexico; new EU cases
Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:07am EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text [+]
Market News
Stock futures briefly trim gains after GDP data
Positive earnings drive world stocks higher
Oil rises above $50 with equities
More Business & Investing News... (For full coverage of the flu outbreak, click [nFLU] )
* United States confirms first flu death outside Mexico
* Flu in nine countries as Germany and Austria confirm cases
* Toll rises with up to 159 dead in Mexico
* WHO may raise pandemic alert, but says it may be mild
* Markets up as fears ease (Adds details on U.S. death, new Austrian, British infections)
By Maggie Fox
WASHINGTON, April 29 (Reuters) - A baby in Texas has died of the H1N1 flu strain, the first confirmed death outside Mexico from a virus which health officials fear could cause a pandemic as it spread to two more countries in Europe.
Nearly a week after the threat emerged in Mexico, where up to 159 people have died, a U.S. official said on Wednesday a 23-month-old had died in the state bordering Mexico. A heath official said the baby was Mexican and was in the the United States for medical treatment.
Richard Besser, acting head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said he expected more bad news even though most of the 65 U.S. cases of swine flu were mild.
"We're going to find more cases. We're going to find more severe cases and I expect that we'll continue to see additional deaths," he said. [nN29385038]
President Barack Obama said the death showed it was time to take "utmost precautions" against the possible spread of the virus.
Germany reported its first three infections and Austria one, taking to nine the number of countries known to be affected.
"We have about 100 cases outside Mexico, and now you have one death. That is very significant," said Lo Wing Lok, an infectious disease expert in Hong Kong.
TOURISM HIT
France said it would seek on Thursday a European Union ban on flights to Mexico because of the influenza outbreak [nLT437502]. Argentina and Cuba have already banned them. Continued...
The flu numbers in Mexico are likely to be rather approximate.
The number of cases is probably far higher than 1,000. Maybe 20 times or more or less. This is a poor country with a rickety medical system. Only the very sick or those with extra money show up at a hospital for the flu.
The death rate is probably not 7%. Even the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic is credited with a death rate of 2.5%. The available data with the first world cases is that this is not a severe avian class killer flu.
But even the other 2 pandemics in the 20th century ended up killing 1-2 million people worldwide.
Even if the death rate is 0.5%, if 25% of the US population gets it, that is still 400,000 extra deaths. Doubt even in a worst case scenario that would happen here. We have a century of medical progress since 1918, drugs, vaccines, supportive care, and so on.
Where a pandemic like this hits hard is in third world countries. Watch out if it gets into Africa and Asia.
What are you talking about? IIRC, the Fort Dix cluster was in about that time. I remember it well. There was a big controversy over the vaccine program without any evidence of pandemic potential. Sabin and Salk were on opposing sides as usual.
Most of my department including myself thought the vaccine was a bad idea without evidence of an epidemic. We were right.
Doubtful. Why would anyone bother? It would take sophisticated medical facilities to create such a virus and the people inclined to do so tend to live in caves while being hunted by the US army.
It would not be unusual for natural, continual known biology to produce such a virus, in fact it is predicted by the biology of the flu. Why we have medical surveillance for these events.
I know the wingnuts are already all over this. It was produced by the Illuminati complex consisting of Bush + Cheney (or Clinton-Gore), reptiloid aliens, Bigfoot, the Lochness monster, and the Democrats (or Republicans).
The godbots are next. It is divine smiting because the USA is overrun with gays, abortion, marijuana, and Democrats.
Swine flu confirmed in NYC high school students
***The bad news is that this flu seems to be spreading easily through the population. The good news is that it doesn't seem to be much different from the usual flu that spreads through the population each winter.***
AP – St. Francis Preparatory School is seen in the Queens borough of New York, Saturday, April 25, 2009. Hundreds …
By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer Karen Matthews, Associated Press Writer – 53 mins ago
NEW YORK – New York City was dealing with a growing public health threat Sunday after tests confirmed that eight students at a private Catholic high school had contracted swine flu. Some of the school's students had visited Mexico on a spring break trip two weeks ago.
New York officials previously had said they were eight probable cases, but Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed that it was swine flu, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.
About 100 students at St. Francis Preparatory School complained of flu-like symptoms.
Bloomberg stressed that the cases in New York were mild and many are recovering, but also said that parents of the students also had flu symptoms, "suggesting it is spreading person to person."
He said that the virus likely came from Mexico, although that has not officially been determined.
"We do know that some of the students from the school had a spring break in Mexico," Bloomberg said, surrounded by top city officials and members of Congress. "It is most likely to be brought back from Mexico, but nobody knows."
Federal health officials said Sunday that 20 cases of swine flu have been reported so far in New York, Ohio, Kansas, Texas and California. Patients have ranged in age from 9 to over 50. At least two were hospitalized. All recovered or are recovering.
Yes and no.
Influenza viruses have an 8 RNA segment genome that readily reassorts in cellular mixed strain infections. This is partly why they evolve so fast that each year one has to have a new flu vaccination.
It is unusual to see a human, avian, swine hybrid but not by much.
As to whether it is ominous, we don't know. Swine flu to human cases occur sporadically every year and never go far. Viruses adapted to one host tend to have poor adaptation to another one.
The key is whether this new virus strain is human adapted yet, how well it spreads, and how pathogenic it is. There isn't enough data yet to decide any of this.
The infectious disease people try to act fast and thorough. It is better to overreact and be wrong than to underreact and be wrong.
Outbreak Notice Swine Influenza in the United States
This information is current as of today, April 26, 2009 at 01:46
Updated: April 25, 2009 from the CDC, Atlanta
Current Situation
As of 6pm April 24 2009, 8 human cases of swine influenza A (H1N1) virus infection have been identified in San Diego County and Imperial County, California as well as in San Antonio, Texas. This strain of influenza virus is unique because it is a combination of swine, bird, and human influenza viruses. Infected individuals report flu-like symptoms of fever, aches and pains, sore throats, coughing and trouble breathing. Some people have also reported diarrhea and vomiting. These cases may be linked to an outbreak of influenza-like-illness in Mexico.
At this time there have been no severe illnesses or fatalities seen in the United States. However, CDC and state public and animal health authorities are still in the early stages of the investigations.
Further updates to the US investigation and any related travel recommendations will be posted on www.cdc.gov/travel when available.
CDC Recommendations
CDC has NOT recommended that people avoid travel at this time. If you are planning travel to these areas, the following recommendations will help you to reduce your risk of infection and stay healthy.
Monitor the International Situation
Check updates from the:
California Department of Public Health
Texas Department of State Health Services
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Pan American Health Organization
World Health Organization
Outbreak Notice
Swine Influenza in the United States
This information is current as of today, April 26, 2009 at 01:46
Updated: April 25, 2009
Current Situation
As of 6pm April 24 2009, 8 human cases of swine influenza A (H1N1) virus infection have been identified in San Diego County and Imperial County, California as well as in San Antonio, Texas. This strain of influenza virus is unique because it is a combination of swine, bird, and human influenza viruses. Infected individuals report flu-like symptoms of fever, aches and pains, sore throats, coughing and trouble breathing. Some people have also reported diarrhea and vomiting. These cases may be linked to an outbreak of influenza-like-illness in Mexico.
At this time there have been no severe illnesses or fatalities seen in the United States. However, CDC and state public and animal health authorities are still in the early stages of the investigations.
Further updates to the US investigation and any related travel recommendations will be posted on www.cdc.gov/travel when available.
CDC Recommendations
CDC has NOT recommended that people avoid travel at this time. If you are planning travel to these areas, the following recommendations will help you to reduce your risk of infection and stay healthy.
Monitor the International Situation
Check updates from the:
California Department of Public Health
Texas Department of State Health Services
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Pan American Health Organization
World Health Organization
There are only 8 identified cases in the USA so far. There also isn't a whole lot of info on the medical and government websites. They say the US cases haven't resulted in any serious illness much less death. Eight cases isn't much of a database. The Mexican cases seem more severe. Hard to say what that means. General health can make a big difference in mortality. Measles kills 0.3% of kids in the first world. In some third world countries it can be up to 28%.
<<I have often noted your irrational hatred of anyone who does not agree with your warped brainwashed fantasies,>>
It works both ways. God hates fundie xians. He made them stupid and then keeps sending tornados and hurricanes into their heartland of the south central USA. Not to mention poisonous snakes and brown recluse spiders. They never, ever catch on.
Chartreader, use the ignore feature. I'm gfed, but assume free accounts have it. Just click on the persons name, hit "ignore this user" and they are gone. You must have ignore tools enabled in settngs or some such. At any rate, it is easy and takes all of a minute or two.
From the IHub FAQ
How do I put someone on Ignore/Filter/Block?
To block their public posts, go to their profile, click 'Ignore this Poster.' If they send you a private message, and you want to block future ones from them, look just below the message to you, in the blue bar - click 'Block Private Messages from X' Go to Tools > My Filters to manage your filters. Free users can block up to 5 people. Premium users can block unlimited.
Market trims gains after Fed minutes
Wed Apr 8, 2009 2:09pm EDT
Market News
Stocks trim gains after Fed minutes
Oil rises $1 on U.S. distillate draw
Life insurer shares rise on government aid report
More Business & Investing News... NEW YORK, April 8 (Reuters) - U.S. stocks pared gains on Wednesday as minutes of the Federal Reserve's recent policy meeting showed that officials saw the economy deteriorating and downside risks high. For details, see [ID:nWEQ000866]
The fed report wasn't so good. They said the economy is deteriorating. It's been deteriorating for 1 1/2 years, so what else is new?
Not quite seeing why the market has been rallying so hard for 2 months forward looking or not. There were several rallies during the Great Depression.
Alcoa posts quarterly loss on aluminum price slump
<<Alcoa's guidance for Q2 isn't so great. Excerpt and PR below, read it and decipher the tea leaves yourself.>>
Still, Alcoa expects second quarter alumina production to decline slightly as it drops its refinery production to meet smelter demand.
The company also sees continued end market weakness for its flat-rolled products, as well as in aerospace, construction and global transportation in the second quarter.
"They are doing all the right things to preserve liquidity, but market fundamentals are pretty bad," said Min Ye, equity analyst with Morningstar in Chicago.
"(The) positive news is that prices seem like they have leveled off, but demand has not picked up and inventories are high ... It's going to take some time for prices to recover."
Tuesday April 7, 2009, 6:23 pm EDT
By Steve James
Reuters - An Alcoa employee cuts flat sheet in an undated photo courtesy of the company. REUTERS/Handout ...
AA 7.79 -0.12
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Aluminum producer Alcoa Inc (NYSE:AA - News) reported a second consecutive quarterly loss on Tuesday, as metal prices and the autos industry slumped and global demand fell in the economic downturn.
In response to the tough times, Alcoa -- the first member of the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJI:^DJI - News) to report its quarterly results -- has cut thousands of jobs, slashed its dividend, trimmed spending and raised $1.3 billion to help it through the slowdown.
"There's no doubt in my mind that we are in for a really nasty earnings season," said Keith Wirtz, president and chief investment officer of Fifth Third Asset Management. "Alcoa's second consecutive quarterly loss is testament to that. We are in the worse phase of this recession right now."
The first-quarter net loss was $497 million, or 61 cents per share, compared with a profit of $303 million, or 37 cents, in the same quarter of 2008, the Pittsburgh-based company said. The loss from continuing operations was 59 cents per share.
Revenue fell 36 percent to $4.1 billion from $6.5 billion a year earlier after excluding divested businesses.
According to Reuters Estimates, the company actually lost 60 cents per share, excluding a write-off and gain from two transactions in the quarter. That missed analysts' estimate for a loss of 55 cents, Reuters Estimates said.
Alcoa shares were down slightly in after-hours trading.
TRIMMING THEIR SAILS
Chief Executive Klaus Kleinfeld said in a press statement the steps the company has taken so far to cut costs should significantly improve its profitability and cash flow in 2009 and beyond.
"We also see both near-term and long-term catalysts that should improve the prospects for the aluminum industry," he said. "Current stimulus programs that target infrastructure and energy efficiency will create a demand for ... aluminum.
Still, Alcoa expects second quarter alumina production to decline slightly as it drops its refinery production to meet smelter demand.
The company also sees continued end market weakness for its flat-rolled products, as well as in aerospace, construction and global transportation in the second quarter.
"They are doing all the right things to preserve liquidity, but market fundamentals are pretty bad," said Min Ye, equity analyst with Morningstar in Chicago.
"(The) positive news is that prices seem like they have leveled off, but demand has not picked up and inventories are high ... It's going to take some time for prices to recover."
END-MARKET WEAKNESS
Alcoa said the sharp drop in revenue resulted from the impact of the economic downturn on Alcoa's end markets -- automotive, transportation, building and construction and aerospace.
As demand weakened, realized metal prices fell an additional $558 per ton resulting in prices that are now about 60 percent lower than last summer.
Aluminum prices tumbled some 50 percent in the second half of 2008 from a peak of $3,380 per tonne last July. During the first quarter, the price fell another 9 percent from $1,530 to $1,392.
Alcoa, like most of its rivals, has cut production in the last six months as the global economic downturn stunted demand.
Last week, Alcoa announced it was curtailing 120,000 annual tonnes at its smelter in Massena, New York, bringing the company's total aluminum output cuts to over 850,000 tonnes, or 20 percent of annualized output.
In January, Alcoa also posted a fourth-quarter loss -- its first in six years.
Alcoa's stock has slumped as the recession hurt aluminum prices and demand for the metal used in automotive and aerospace manufacture and such consumer items as beverage cans and kitchen foil.
Alcoa shares have lost more than 82 percent of their value since last May, when they traded near $45 a share. They bounced somewhat off a low of $4.98 last month after Alcoa announced it would cut its dividend and raise $1.3 billion from an offering of stock and convertible notes.
The shares closed down 1.5 percent at $7.79 on Tuesday, but was slightly lower at $7.55 in after-hours trading.
<<Alcoa is just one that will be interesting>>
FWIW, alcoa is supposed to show a huge loss. They already slashed their dividend and warned. The Chinese company, Aluminum of China also had a dismal quarter.
Whether it is already baked into the stock price, see Wednesday's market.
<<The argument is that the bailout money was necessary because these institutions were "too big to fail".>>
What bothered me, among other things, about the bailouts:
Wachovia, Bear Sterns, WAMU, Merrill, etc.. were "too big to fail." So they were force merged with tens of billions of dollars of subsidies into....other "too big to fail" companies, WFC, JPM, BAC etc..
Thus creating zombie banks which are..."too big to fail" squared.
In hindsight, they should have just let them go BK. It would be a disaster at first, then it would be over, and we would have literally cleared away the dead wood.
And we wouldn't have to listen to moron CEOS explain why they need tens of millions of dollars bonuses to "retain talent" which destroyed their companies, the US economy, and the world economy as well.
Yes, probably. No group of people are all perfect for sure.
A police drug task force did something similar where I used to lived.
Over the years they seized lots of drugs, lots of drug money, and lots of guns. Virtually all of which disappeared. They resold it obviously.
They got caught when they broke down the door of the wrong house with a search warrant for one somewhere else. It was a well known minister but sure enough he got caught possessing drugs.
They were planting drugs and using that as evidence. Some of those cops ended up with felonies and a review of their cases ended up with all of them being thrown out.
True, lots of lurkers. You do such a thorough job of finding relevant stuff that everyone else is way late. It is appreciated!
ST overbought but not much. Both the Dow and Nasdaq are 5 day RSI(5)=78. ST this can get up into the 80's and 90's easy and stay there for many days.
With a huge white candle like this, it is rarely the top of a move although it can be close. Usually the market churns for a few days and then either continues or starts a new trend. In the absence of any bad news, the trend will probably continue for a while. BWTHDIK
<<over seas where the pay isnt restricted.>>
You mean like China?
The head of their FDA equivalent was involved in a pet food melamine scandal and some others. He was tried, convicted, and executed.
One of their politicians was involved in a large scale business scam. He was executed.
Over there, major crimes get taken care of rather quickly. I would expect that a good chunk of the Wall Street bozos who brought the world economy down would be making out their wills right now in China.
The Europeans have no use for our parasites either.
They might fit in well in some corrupt third world country but they aren't going to be making big bucks. The USA is by far the largest economy in the world and that is why we are where the action is.
<<"talented people are going to work for privately-held companies">>
That would be a joke if it wasn't a lie. There are many far more talented people in law, medicine, and academic and corporate R&D. I'd really like to see these clowns earn an MD, Ph.D., JD, etc. and then contribute something to the world besides greed and destruction.
Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of all hedge funds are either BK or failing.
I've heard from insiders in WS that most of these guys aren't really all that smart. They are mostly the children of the old guard elites. They went to Ivy League schools where it is impossible to flunk out and got C's in easy courses. A classic example is a Yale graduate from Texas who won't be named who had a very high position in the oval office while New Rome burned.
At this point, it is now obvious that we would have been far better off letting all these banks fail and starting over. It would clear out all the dead wood, crooks, people who mistake a fancy office and title for competence, and let the real talented people have a shot at building genuinely well run and profitable companies. It might have been worse in the short term but long term, it would be better. That is what we did with the S&L crisis and the Resolution Trust Co. in the early 1990's. It was a difficult time, we got through it OK, and a huge success.
North American chip gear orders fall 5 pct in Feb
All sorts of bad news friday and this morning. Nothing really screaming headline material but still.
1. A commercial REIT went BK. Citi held the paper, LOL.
2. Two of the largest credit unions went under and a bank.
3. The semi book to bill is at the lowest point ever.
Conclusion: While the stock market has danced away merrily, there is no indication the underlying economy has even thought of getting off the floor. Hard to say what to make of it all but there is a divergence if there ever was one.
Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:41am EDT
March 20 (Reuters) - North American manufacturers of equipment used to make semiconductors reported orders of $263.5 million in orders in February, down 5 percent from the previous month, industry data released on March 19 showed. The book-to-bill ratio was 0.48 in February, meaning that $48 worth of orders were received for every $100 of product shipped, Semiconductor Equipment and Materials International said in a preliminary report. The ratio is watched as an indicator of the demand pipeline for the industry, as well as for hints about chip capacity and whether the $300 billion semiconductor sector could be headed for a glut.
Orders in February declined 78 percent compared with a year
ago, SEMI said. February billings were $546.1 million, 7
percent less than in January and 58 percent less than a year
ago. "These are the lowest bookings levels we have seen since
SEMI began compiling data for the book-to-bill program in
1991," said Dan Tracy, senior director of Industry Research and
Statistics at SEMI. "Spending and investments remain at minimal levels as the semiconductor industry waits for clearer signals indicating improvement in end market demand," he added.
U.S. chip equipment makers include Applied Materials Inc (AMAT.O), the world's biggest, testing tools firm KLA Tencor Corp (KLAC.O), circuitry-etching tools company Lam Research Corp (LRCX.O) and Novellus Systems Inc (NVLS.O), which specializes in preparing the surface of a silicon wafer before
circuits are laid down.
The SEMI book-to-bill is a ratio of three-month moving
averages of worldwide bookings and billings for North
America-based chip-equipment makers. The data contained in the report was compiled by David Powell Inc, an independent financial services firm, without audit, from data submitted directly by the participants. Billings Bookings Book-to-Bill (Three-month avg) (Three-month avg)
Sept 2008 927.3 649.9 0.70 Oct
2008 871.4 839.7 0.96 Nov 2008 806.8 783.8 0.97 Dec 2008 672.4 579.1 0.86 Jan 2009 (final)
584.2 277.2 0.47 Feb 2009 (prelim.) 546.1 263.5 0.48
*Source: SEMI March 2009
(Reporting by Bijoy Koyitty in Bangalore; Editing by Anne
Pallivathuckal)
Citigroup just screwed the common shareholders. Who are mostly the US taxpayers. Here is part of what the street.com says, similar to what I posted.
Today's Outrage: Citigroup Stiffs Stockholders
03/19/09 - 10:11 AM EDT street.com
Glenn Hall
If you own Citigroup (C Quote - Cramer on C - Stock Picks) shares, you're a chump.
C It's not your fault, mind you. You've been played by Citi. And no one is calling them on it -- the SEC and the NYSE are playing along, in fact.
You've been had.
Citigroup is playing fast and loose with its shares and stockholders get no say in the matter.
It's all spelled out in the bank's press release today stating that it plans to dilute the holdings of common stock holders by converting preferred shares into common shares, and then it will conduct a reverse stock split to reduce the total number of outstanding common shares.
Now here's the part of the press release that makes you a chump: "Shareholder approval to increase Citi`s authorized shares is not necessary."
Citi goes on to say that the NYSE granted an exception to shareholder voting requirements. The plans are on file with the SEC, and Citi's release suggests it doesn't anticipate any problems proceeding.
The plan to get the government and other owners of preferred shares to convert to common shares will first dilute the holdings of investors who currently own common shares. Don't like that? Too bad.
Then comes a reverse stock split that will convert some number of shares into a single share with the same relative value as the combined shares previously held. Of course that assumes the shares hold onto that value. Do you feel lucky?
It's not just common shareholders that are getting played here. Citi also is cleverly pushing its bailout repayment risk onto the government with these initiatives. If it all goes through, taxpayers will have to hope for a major rebound in the bank's share price in order to recoup the "investment" the U.S. Treasury made. Continues....
The c, citibank news is just plain incredibly horrible.
<<(C: 3.08, +0.57, +22.7%) said Thursday that it has filed with regulators for approval of its plan to issue common stock in exchange for convertible and non-convertible preferred and trust preferred securities. Citi first announced the plan in late February, and said it hopes it will convert about $52.5 billion of preferred shares into common shares. The bank said it hopes to launch the exchange offer in early April, subject to regulatory approval. Citi also said it is asking for approval to execute a reverse stock split of its common stock.>>
1. Reverse splits are basically tombstones for stocks. It means they don't see the price going up and it will probably crater.
2. This common for preferred and trust preferred shares for 52 billion USD is an admission of Zombiehood. The only reason for the preferred holders to convert is because the preferreds are in danger of being wiped out in bankruptcy. Any holders will demand a nice conversion at par which is probably 90% above the current prices. They will then dump the stock and run like hell, and equity will crater. That is why they need to reverse split the common.
Citibank is essentially bankrupt and running on smoke and mirrors. The feds own most of it after converting their TARP shares. So after this monumental bad news, the stock was up 24 cents last I checked. Makes no sense.
IMO, this market is running on air. Bad news is all of the suddent good news. Companies like AIG and C are holding up because people assume the government will prop up the zombies no matter what. While this is true, the zombies are still...zombies. While I rarely agree with Denninger who seems to have been born depressed, his comments on the FOMC and fed actions have a serious point.
Just saw the trillion dollar buy of US treasury bonds by the fed.
Don't quite understand it yet. Where are they getting the money to buy a trillion USD of long term treasury bonds? The government is broke!!!
Well, that part is clear. They will just print the money using paper and ink or electrons and photons.
This means the market will be flooded with US paper currency.
So, what happens after that? Looks like the dollar will fall and inflation will take off.
Not seeing where that gets us. The business cycle has to operate. The government can take countercyclical measures to modify it. But it can't stop it. These sorts of financial shell games is what got us into this mess.
One other point is worth noting. They know the above as well as anyone. My guess is they see the economy still collapsing despite everything tried up to now and are getting a bit panicky. This isn't great news either.
During the Savings and Loan crisis where I lived, there was a S&L that was typical of the times, bankrupt and run by sleazy, incompetent idiots.
The FBI walked in one day, ordered everyone out, and chained the door closed. End of bank. No one even heard a hint of indictment afterwards but no one was ever indicted anywhere in the USA.
<<AIG refuses to hand over workers details
Taxpayer-backed insurer refused to hand over identities of workers who received $165 million in bonuses>>
There is a simple way out of this. Fire the entire management team. As Barney Frank noted, "AIG may be legally entitled to the bonuses but they aren't legally entitled to their jobs."
After bailing out AIG with 130 billion USD of taxpayers money, the USA now owns 80% of AIG. This company isn't BK, it is way past that. We taxpayers are the owners, like it or not.
And why does AIG need to pay bonuses to "retain talent". What talent? They wrecked the company and nearly took down the US and world economies. I wouldn't hire those proven idiots to mow my lawn, a innocent patch of vegetation that never harmed anyone.
Really, the only way to get these incompetents attention is to have the relevant legal authorities launch fraud investigations. When they are sitting in prison somewhere near Maddoff, Stanford and the like, it just may filter into their tiny little brains that losing hundreds of billions of dollars they don't even have isn't a great way to impress people.
American Express credit delinquencies rise in February
Monday March 16, 2009, 4:39 pm EDT
This is what supposedly ended the day rally today. Not that I believe that, it is just one piece of data. The industrial production, empire state report, and foreign outflows weren't too great either. Sure credit defaults are up, but they are always up in a recession.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - American Express Co (NYSE:AXP - News) said on Monday that U.S. credit card delinquencies rose in February as job losses accelerated and the economy deteriorated.
In a regulatory filing, the largest U.S. charge card operator by sales volume said its net charge-off rate -- a measure of credit default -- rose to 8.70 percent in February from 8.30 percent in January, while the rate for loans at least 30 days delinquent increased to 5.30 percent from 5.10 percent.
American Express shares were down 4 cents to $13.05 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange after the report. They had risen as much as 8 percent earlier in the session in a rally of financial services companies. The stock has lost one-third of its value in 2009.
<<What Obama should do is tell AIG to be more responsible or the US will dump all of their shares on the open market and rid themselves of this business. But, somehow, I am guessing that won't happen. What Obama should do is tell AIG to be more responsible or the US will dump all of their shares on the open market and rid themselves of this business. But, somehow, I am guessing that won't happen.>>
AIG should go the way of Enron, a company it closely resembles. They have no business or right to keep existing.
1. They have proven to be a Weapon of Mass Financial Destruction. They aren't even bankrupt, they are right now 130 billion dollars in the hole due to our bailouts.
2. AIG was just a fraud, a ponzi scheme. Write huge derivative contracts that you can't possible pay up on. Pay yourself gigantic bonuses for booking revenues up front. Repeat until you run out of suckers, go BK.
3. The management is just inept crooks. It was supposed to be an insurance company. Insurance is a guaranteed racket. You set your rates so you never pay out more than you take in. They are usually highly profitable low risk companies. Even Buffett has one, Berkshire.
What I gather reading about the management of AIG. They aren't a bit sorry, they don't care about the losses, and given one tenth of a chance, they would do the same thing again. The only way to get the attention of such weasels is to indict them and sent them to jail for a decade or two.
<<zab: Here's one you might look at: CX>>
I'd be careful with CX. They are carrying high debt loads that they are having trouble paying. They were going to float an issue, a bond issue or secondary and couldn't find any buyers. Last I heard, they were going to go "talk to their banks".
High debt in this economy is dangerous.
<<Will men make wine and beer as they did back then?>>
Home made wine and beer are for amateurs. Some of my relatives made it through the Great Depression by making and selling, "handcrafted small batches of distilled spirits."
Fortunately the statute of limitations has expired and they are all dead now or I wouldn't have mentioned that.
<<Hi Osprey, (Incidently, I have an Osprey nest in my backyard)>
You must have a big back yard and live near water. Where I used to live back in the Dark Ages, we had a nest near our house. Bird watchers used to drive for miles to take pictures of the birds in their nest. Where I live now, we have lots of Golden Eagles in the summer. I've seen as many as 5 at one time.
<<You mention when a mortgage goes default the money is gone, the person that sold the house in the first place has the money with the exception of bank fees etc.>>
Yes, if someone buys a house for 300K and sells it for 500K, they made 200K. If the last owner defaults and the bank ends up with the house and sells it for 300k (the current situation), the bank lost 200K. Essentially there is a winner and a loser and no net gain in wealth.
Edit: If you take 500K as the peak wealth figure, 200K was vaporized.
<<I know of at least one individual that was surprised to know his loss was not just an evaporation of funds but much if not all was in someones elses pocket right now.>>
Most of the losses in the stock and housing markets are just vaporized, gone.
Shorts make money when stocks go down. But the number of shorts is a fraction of the number of longs in almost all stocks. Frequently short interest is only a few percent.
When a house defaults on a mortgage or HELC, someone, the loan holder eats a loss.
Edit: The amount of world wealth vaporized according to Blackstone is 46%. This translates into 50 trillion dollars of world wealth with the US share being 12 trillion.