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Why Does Home Depot sell Denatured Alcohol instead of Methanol or Ethanol?
According to Wikipedia:
'Denatured alcohol or methylated spirits is ethanol that has additives to make it poisonous, extremely bad tasting, foul smelling or nauseating, to discourage recreational consumption. In some cases it is also dyed.'
'Denaturing alcohol does not chemically alter the ethanol molecule. Rather, the ethanol is mixed with other chemicals to form an undrinkable solution.'
So commercial companies refuse to sell pure ethanol or methanol - instead they add components that make it poisonous, bad tasting, and foul smelling to discourage consumption. Some countries even add dyes to it.
The delusion is all yours.
'Why would anyone pay close to a hundred thousand dollars for the privilege of riding 200 miles and waiting up to 6 hours to do it again, when a 3 minute fill up of Methanol at a standard gas station can produce the same electric power without the wait or concern of finding a re-charging station and waiting?'
Methanol in cars is all but ruled out. That is what gas is for because gas is safer in the environment than methanol.
Electricity to charge cars is easier to move than either gas or methanol - so electric charging stations will be around.
Methanol fuels will only play a small role since there are better alternatives all around - GAS, DIESEL, Battery, etc.
There is no doubt that methanol is an effective fuel due to its simple chemical structure. However, it reacts to EVERYTHING to make any spill a toxic hazard that is impossible to clean up.
Did you read the methanol.org link in MKTY website.
'Methanol is highly toxic and can lead to death. After consumption, methanol is converted into formaldehyde and then into formic acid, which causes the blood to become acidic ... Methanol poisoning can be treated if diagnosed within 10 to 30 hours of ingestion.'
However 'Symptoms usually do not occur until about 12 to 24 hours after consumption.' That leaves the potential victim only 6-18 hours to get life saving treatment.
You should reflect on why methanol is not currently a popular choice of fuel. It has been around forever - but it is nowhere in the refueling chain. Instead, we use propane, butane, gasoline, diesel, even nuclear instead of methanol. There is a reason for that.
I just did a search for methanol at Home Depot, but even they do not carry it. The have denatured alcohol products for paint cleaners and such. Not even Home Depot wants to carry methanol in its liquid form due to the risk of lawsuits.
It seems I raised some ire. IMO - this product line seems like Deja Vu - from 12 years ago.
Everyone wanted to buy into fuel cells because we were going to run out of energy. Hydrogen was the ultimate fuel that was needed to burn in fuel cells to make clean energy without any CO2.
However, the costs to create pure hydrogen required processes that created CO2 and it costs much more than other fuels - so those fuel cells never made any money.
The alternative fuel cell companies bit the dust for the most part including MKTY of yesterday. Is there a huge difference in their product design? I do not see it. Although the need for fuel cells in UAVs may be a need within the military.
If MKTY can create a sealed container that never leaks, and the methanol fuel is always completely used up before it is tossed into the nearest landfill so that methanol isn't draining into the nearest stream - I am all for it.
The aviation transport issue may be solved.
Methanol fuels will always run into issues like this:
Here is a webpage on methanol fuel for R/C airplanes.
'Methanol is poisonous, keep all fuel out of reach of children, even older children who may not understand the difference between drinking alcohol and flying alcohol. Take this seriously, when I was in the Navy some sailors who were old enough to know better, drank some methanol and a couple of them died... '
http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/engine_troubleshooting.htm
van, I just read your analysis.
You need to look at the hazards of a product that uses methanol as its source of fuel.
I remember looking into a lot of fuel cell companies ten years ago. The methanol fuel never took off because it is like alcohol where you can get high off of it, but it is toxic to life. There is a public health risk when it gets misused.
We use gasoline in our vehicles over methanol because it can't be consumed as an alcohol, even though methanol might be a cheaper source of energy than gasoline.
It is not a problem if the uses are by highly trained, controlled procedures like the military - so for that it may be a good option. It was not an acceptable option for cars to run on methanol - due to potential environment issues during accidents.
I think one of the environmental problems with methanol is that it mixes with water to make the water toxic rather than not mixing with water and evaporating.
pepsiman, Are you still in TROV? I see you posting on the DSNY board.
The company headquarters is in Jamaica according to Yahoo, however the website says Nevada.
I would take my time looking into the company.
Hopefully, ANYDAYNOW will short a million shares of Destiny so that we can all buy more at a cheaper price.
Thanks. I will compare Scottrade to Schwab. Schwab has some funky quote numbers for OTC stocks near $1. The prices for DSNY seem to vary from the OTC market quotes by 1-2 cents sometimes.
streaming. What level 2 are you using?
You posted 1.51 here a couple of minutes before the OTC Market quote or Yahoo quotes.
I want to compare what I am using against your level 2 service.
brooklyn, those are all good points.
Given those facts, why do you bemoan the company here while you are pitching their products to significant decision makers? Those two activities are contrary to one another.
I would not like to get pitched a company by a person who routinely bemoans the company in a public forum.
I think you are venting here at times which I do not mind. Nor do I mind you asking for facts about others post.
IMO - you should discuss the 'lack of marketing' and company problems with the company - not on this forum. You should also consider how you can time your contact promotions with the companies marketing effort - otherwise it is just wasted effort for yourself and your contacts until the company is ready to offer their Clipstream G2 for that type of use.
I make the IMO suggestions only help you avoid being a hypocrite. While you complain about other posters hyping the company with unverifiable facts, you may be doing worse by promoting a prototype product to big market uses when Clipstream G2 is 3-12 months away from that product being useful for those markets.
Those are mole hills for DSNY at this point since DSNY trading volume is in the 100,000s lately.
Which Network Company do you use? The speed is relative to the network speed as well as the processor speed.
I think you know that there were no facts to back up the crazy statements. So I will agree with you that some posters like to pump some bogus facts here.
What I do not understand is why you like to poke holes in the trend that is going up anyway - since you state that you are invested for the long-term. That makes NO SENSE.
IMO - your post was marked with a TOS complaint - which triggered a review by the administrator. Someone did not like your incessant negativity.
There are no moderators on this board yet - so the administrators have to delete posts.
Correction - Mercedes49 is listed as a moderator.
Maybe 1.36 tomorrow? The trend is our friend.
This alliance with Graphene Batteries AS might help.
How to use new materials to develop higher performance, longer life Li-Ion batteries.
http://www.products.cvdequipment.com/applications/papers/binder-free-battery-electrodes/
I am currently in TCCO - based on some of my posts on that board.
It is very low float < 2M shares - so it is hard to trade.
I think Visualant owned Mr. Gringo 1+ Million - not 500,000.
I do not know the sale price of Visualant since it was a few years ago. The 5 million financing will be used to pay back the 1.6 million of debt that was due last year.
I found this statement in the financing SEC documents:
'James M. Gingo, director, received $1,030,000 for payment of loan & interest & company paid liabilities of $128,000. In addition, Ronald P. Erickson, President & CEO, received $460,000 for repayment of loans & $65,000 for repayment of accrued liabilities.'
Do you know the history? Mr. Gringo sold TransTech to Visualant with a huge IOU.
My guess is that the acquisition of TransTech was either over sold or under-performed - creating some conflict between Mr. Gringo and other Visualant management. However, Mr. Gringo wasn't going anywhere while he was owed his money. Now Visualant can pay-off that debt - so Mr. Gringo has less incentive to stay on.
I don't know if Mr. Gringo will leave Visual and TransTech Systems altogether. Maybe, he will stay on with TransTech Systems as its president.
Van, The CEO traded the 500k of debt for 5,000,000 shares in this deal, plus warrants.
Here is the Sched 13.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1074828/000116169713000409/sc13d.htm
There could be other executives of the company involved in the financing. I am not sure how to read this document with these names listing several employees.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1074828/000116169713000411/xslFormDX01/primary_doc.xml
We will have to wait for more Sched 13 forms to be released to know more.
van, that is not how I read this:
'... the Company issued 52,300,000 shares of common stock at $0.10 per share for a total of $5,230,000, which amount includes the conversion of $500,000 in outstanding debt of the Company owed to one of its officers.'
This states that 500,000 of debt was CONVERTED - which generally means that debt was traded for shares (and warrants).
Do you agree or disagree?
The Investor group includes more than 40 investors. Who is in that group is a new question to be answered.
I did re-read the fine print in the deal that states the 500,000 owed to a director is part of this investor deal.
So - maybe Mr. Erickson is one of the investors who receives some generous warrants.
Did VSUL pay an agent fee for the director to invest in the company himself?
If so, that is quite a transaction.
Yahoo reports 68M in the Float.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=VSUL+Key+Statistics
They also report 116M shares outstanding as of last quarter. This is 6M higher than Van stated, but it agrees with the OTC Market website.
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/VSUL/company-info
the share count and warrant seems to be at least:
116.6 Million previous stated shares and warrants?
52.3 Million shares to new investors
104.6 Million warrant to new investors
10.4 Million warrant to financing agents
283.9 Million shares and warrants
I forgot to mention:
'The Company paid sales commission and expenses of $466,600 to GVC Capital LLC and issued 5,230,000 placement agent warrants at $0.10 and 5,230,000 placement agent warrants at $0.15.'
They paid almost a half million dollars to 'receive' the investment plus they issued 10,460,000 warrants to the Financing agent on top of the 156 Million shares/warrants to the investors.
Ouch and Ouch.
What you should ask yourself is what do you you see for the short-term growth for the company?
The current executive team just sold 60% of the company for a potential 22 Million if all the warrants are exercised.
Why did the current CEO sell out the majority of shares to an outsider when he has enough money to provide this financing himself?
Why not take $3 million instead of $5 million if the current potential is ready to be seen in the near-term?
Why not make the agreement with the Japanese partner who already have 20+ percent ownership in this great technology?
All these questions raise uncertainty for me.
The company is pursuing the fraudulent products market.
I think this is a good start.
If you buy something from China, your are not assured of getting what you paid for. It could be medical products like pills, cleaning supplies, and food.
There were several cases where Chinese milk suppliers were putting white colored chemicals into the milk to artficially boost the 'protein' level instead of providing 100% real milk. This milk blend was being consumed by Chinese children.
I also talked to the company about scanning metals. However, I do not know how the scanner works on various metals.
The problem with metal is that it all looks alike. However, small variations of elements can make steel much stronger or weaker. When engineers design buildings they need specific strength steel which is specified in the design documents. The metals purchased need to exceed those requirements, but the testing of metals delivered is often overlooked. So cheaper metals can be substituted for more expensive metal.
In Seattle, a contractor was caught using inferior metal for our overhead train system a few years ago. However, the structures were not demolished since the difference was deemed to be still safe enough.
With metals, the problem is that many metals are covered up with oils to prevent rust or painted over on first use. So a color scan may be affected by the oil or dirt within a dusty work environment. So each scan would require cleaning the scan area at least.
In general, Companies need to be careful about the products that get delivered to them which they use to build their own products: they need to specify the quality of materials that they expect and they need to inspect the quality of materials that arrive at their doorstep. This is where Visualant's scanner will be most useful in the short-term.
My main question is - many of these inspections are going on now - so which uses will the Cyclops scanner be used to replace a different type of inspection.
The new types of inspections will be the growth area for this product - but the justification of paying $500 per scanner or more for an identification that is not currently done is the question here.
The topic of substance identification is very complex.
Since I can't describe it in full on this board, I recommend some reading for those who what to really investigate what works and what does not work.
The science is called 'spectroscopy'. Here are two books I have been reading on the matter this year:
Organic structural Spectroscopy (1998) version.
Spectrometric Identification of Organic Compounds 1991 version.
These two books cover the issue of uniqueness of organic properties which are more complex than non-organic materials. Organic materials include plastics, foods, oils, plants, etc. Organics basically include everything with some form of Carbon molecule bonding to other molecules such as Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, etc.
'I do believe you might not be 100% correct in your understanding and conclusions'
I worked for three years at an analytical laboratory that did this kind of science. We identified toxic waste problem, asbestos, water contaminants, spoiled food from grocery stores, oils, metals, and much more. So I know the science of substance identification.
I got out of that business because it was boring, smelly, and hazardous to the people who had to breath the fumes and wear rubber gloves and masks to do some of the work. Two of the people I worked for developed health problems years later; (1) cancer, and one frequent seizures.
There many be a way to separate components in the future, but not with the current technology that I can see. The Cyclops system uses photo receptors that receive colors just like the eye can see colors. When you look at a TV, do you see Red, Green and Blue dots? No. You see the average color blend of those Red, Green, and Blue dots. So does the Cyclops system, as I see it.
To see the separate colors, one has to be able to zoom in to each differentiated color and intelligently distinguish the color as separate from the surrounding color.
This model is just reading the colors reflected back which is difficult enough with this new technology.
A scanner that scans for colors can only read what it sees.
If the container is clear - it reads through the container into the sample. If the sample is clear - it reads through the sample into the background behind the sample.
Absolute black is the only surface that should not reflect back any light - however absolute black is not readily available although some paints and materials can get close to absolute black.
From my view of the product, the video and the promotion does not take into account for the container factor.
This is not a problem if you are scanning opaque solid or opaque liquids.
I see the scanner's usefulness within industry to compare material qualities that are controlled. It does not matter what the background is if you always use the same background. So I could compare powders, or liquids in a laboratory environment without any problems.
However, a universal ChromeID is more difficult when you suggest that the company will provide a reference sample comparative. The container of the reference sample and the container of the customer sample would have to match.
The ChromeID is also a problem in mixed solutions - such as oil and water or (salt and pepper mixtures). It can't separately identify the components out without separating them first. So while the company suggests that the scanner might be used for water quality, how are they going to identify the components in water? If they can separate oil and dirt particles from the water with a centrifuge, then you can identify the oil separately from the water. Again, this needs to be done in a lab.
Please do not make statements that do not make sense and add the disclaimer - 'just my understanding'.
van, VSUL has only authorized 200M shares at this moment. They need to approve an increase in the future share count to allow the warrants to be exercised.
I am curious how you see the VSUL scanner being used for Gas and Liquid identification. This is a tricky issue when you use light. The lightwaves have to bounce off the molecules without hitting anything else. The only way to to measure gas and liquids is to perform the scan with an absolute black background that does not reflect light. Otherwise, the reflected light includes the colors reflected from the container material.
And LEXG is now a 15 cent stock price.
This is a good example of what?
Hello? Are you serious?
How many unprofitable, development companies with 200+ million shares have a $1 price per share. The company is closing in on 200 million shares without the warrants exercised.
A share price is determined by the profit per share. The more shares the lower the profit per share.
To make 1 cent per share, the company has to have $2 million profit.
To make 10 cents per share, the company has to have $20 million profit.
If their operating margins are really good at 50%, they need to have $40 million in sales.
I think the extension of the development agreement to Dec 31st is significant. Development work may be on-going into this fall. That is why they needed the 5 million.
The Cyclops evaluation kit will be evaluated by customers this fall and customer products will be developed after that. Customer's aren't going to use the Cyclops product, they are going to design their own handheld scanner designs which use the scanning technology.
IMO - New products may start to appear in the late fall at best. Customer agreements may be signed before that.
The stock price bumped up on the positive news that VSUL has the money to continue operating.
However, the new shareholders could own 60% of the company if they exercise the warrants. While the warrant prices are at 15 and 20 cents, these warrants will hinder the stock prices from soaring above these prices if the new share holders want to sell some shares.
I do not expect immediate sales. They haven't shipped the evaluation kits yet. Those kits will be sold, but not in volume to amount to any significant sales.
Probably due to the financing agreement. Ouch.
52 Million shares issued plus 104 Million warrants issued.
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/130618/vsul8-k.html
I could find dozens of high P/E stocks if I really looked.
I just listed some of the stocks that I watch regularly. FB is not on that list.
brooklyn was just playing his strange adversarial role with the High P/E comment since he regularly invests in small Bio-Tech companies that are years away from any profits at all. He should know better than to make a judgment of DSNY on the P/E of 60.
No. You have been assessed a penalty for your stupid condescending comments about everything.
You must sell all your shares in Destiny back to the company for 60 cents per share to reward the real investors in Destiny.
Examples:
At 279+ per share, Amazon has a Forward P/E of 86 and a negative trailing P/E.
At 226+ per share, Netflix has a Forward P/E of 72 and a trailing P/E of 554.
At 5.30 per share, Attunity has a Negative Forward P/E and a trailing P/E of 252.
Good points. The only reason I see for a decline is that Apple will force some radio stations to change formats to talk radio or go off the air. In the long term, there will likely be fewer sends within the existing markets because there will be fewer active disc jockeys. However, this will take some time to occur. In the short term, there will be an increase in sends.
Since Destiny is working to expand their customer use worldwide, a long-term drop in the US markets might be absorbed by other increases.