Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
I've shown you two of mine - zero from you
Pony up or shut up
See my posts 32171 and 32183.
There was no ownership piece sold
Good news for you and I. Some of the founders received a few shares many years ago, but DECN owns over 99% of Pharmatech and Decision IT.
How was your conversation with Keith?
Mine was delightful.
Super- majority ownership is simply the ownership of more than 50%
I was told that in Nevada it's actually 80%. So assuming Keith Berman is correct, the theoretical dilution percent is less than half of what might be construed from the 50% assertion.
DECN Preferred Shares Clarification
I'm very interested in the facts about this. Is Alydyr correct that Hedgefundstrader's facts are wrong? Or is Hedgefundstrader correct in the assertion that Alydyr is wrong?
Why would JnJ do that?
Because JNJ would much prefer to announce a settlement rather than a loss.
Gent,
In general, I agree with you. But FUD and innuendos seemed to have gotten a lot worse today. I think some of the uncertainty is wide spread. I hope that will be addressed soon.
I'm going to call Keith tomorrow (I've only done that once before, and it was as his request).
Why would JnJ do that? The settlement wasn't for that much money. Peanuts to JnJ. I will ask Keith tomorrow.
I will not ask him that, because I don't care. It makes no difference to me as an investor. And I have no desire to make things seem mysterious.
Lets publicly share notes tomorrow.
"DECN could have unilaterally decided not to release the terms of the settlement. It's not necessarily in JNJ's interest to do so."
Or JNJ could have insisted on it as part of the deal.
Not a chance - that could just be a request for a FUD list. I'll call Keith tomorrow and share my results. We can compare notes publicly.
Update: And no, having as many people as possible call isn't a good idea, even if you're serious.
unless ....
We could also answer each other with glib responses forever. I had hoped for better.
On this concern about DECN - I agree
There may be a compelling reason for the entire settlement to have been invested in a legal defense fund. But I did not see it in this press release.
It's possible that financing for the first year of production, marketing and distribution had been cemented with prior agreements.
It's also possible that DECN and JNJ cut a deal to jointly use the TOV patents to legally attack the other strip providers. But that seems like a stretch to me.
So, bottom line - I'm concerned about this too.
Encourage all to call Keith Berman tomorrow?
You didn't really answer my question. What possible benefit is there to having a hundred share holders call and ask the same question?
Encourage all to call Keith Berman tomorrow?
Scott, I don't think that is a good idea and am surprised you suggested it. What possible benefit is there to have "all" call Keith Berman and ask the same question?
I'd prefer that you post the result of your conversation with KB here. If the information that you receive is lacking, then more calls to KB, including another from me, would make sense.
Does this sound like a reasonable approach to you?
Is this yet another death spiral prediction? Today's price trend seems to dispute that.
Any chance you have some support for that belief?
Yes - from Wikipedia: A patent is a limited property right the government gives inventors in exchange for their agreement to share details of their inventions with the public. Like any other property right, it may be sold, licensed, mortgaged, assigned or transferred, given away, or simply abandoned.
But, but more importantly, I have a request, for your consideration.
Let's back up, take a breath, and ratchet things down. I'm not your enemy and you're not mine either. I'm defensive about integrity attacks on DECN because there have been MANY. Some of your questions appeared to me to be veiled FUD.
All of my requests or answers with you will be with respect.
The time basis for the $400-$700 million figure is the life of the patents. A change in ownership does not change the rights granted in the patent.
You asked: Would that be based on damages occurred after the assignments to Decision IT or does it include a recovery for infringement for a prior period, when Decision IT had yet to be assigned the patent?
Sorry I wasn't clear in my prior response. Hopefully this is crystal clear.
Damages apply to the entire period - pre and post ownership change.
Damage claims are based on rights, not who owns the rights.
Sherman Act violations were counter-claims dismissed in the Consent Judgment
Agreed. But they had very little (or no) impact on the settlement negotiations.
My mistake - sorry
I had 15 prior posts over the last 30 days removed today, and I assumed you were the cause.
loanranger - your posts seem to have disappeared. Please reply
Yes we agree it was all about patent infringement
"OK...your edit opportunity has expired so I'm happy to respond."
I'll ignore that.
We agree, per your note, that JNJ's 4+ year assault on DECN, based on patent infringement was found to be invalid. But we haven't discussed the fact that JNJ sent hundreds of letters to DECN's potential customers, threatening them with a JNJ law suit if they sold DECN's strips. And their was no mention that Walmart testified in court that they received one of these letters.
My attempted point was that Sherman Act violations had nothing to do with the rulings.
Dumping Pacer text, that had already been posted on the forum was not useful to me.
Your scenario inspired me to do more thinking about the possibilities. I had not considered your point. And my point was a variation (built upon your insight).
Thank you.
I think one way to monitor this is by the level of execution DECN demonstrates in getting Genultimate on store shelves and in DME's.
Thumbs up. I totally agree.
Stopped over 10 minutes ago - I'm eagerly waiting
WOW - I'm amazed at our different perspectives
Do you really believe that the CA case judgements had anything to do with Sherman Act violations. If so, please educate us on how you came to that conclusion.
"I was trying to understand why a case was being pursued in Nevada when the District Court in CA had just signed off on an agreement that basically said the claims and counter-claims in the CA case were to be dropped. Turns out that the counter-claims brought by this company in that case were based on purported Sherman Act violations whereas the NV case is based on patent infringement."
That is the most creative description of the of the 4+ year JNJ siege on DECN I have ever encountered.
The primary case was about JNJ's assertion that DECN had infringed on JNJ patents. The court ruled, that all of the alleged JNJ's patent infringements were invalid. And JNJ appealed multiple times to the highest possible level.
The Nevada case is about DECN's assertion that JNJ is infringing on their patents.
What was your point?
I don't know, but if I were negotiating in earnest with JNJ that would certainly be on the table.
It appears JNJ doesn't have the leverage it once had - we'll sue you into oblivion by waiting you out.
So, if I'm correct, and DECN is has enough financing to actually bring their product to a mass market, and sue JNJ for patent infringement in parallel. Negotiations will be much different than they would have been last year.
So why wouldn't they include the NV stuff, if the price is right?
I don't know how to search an iHub forum and suspect many others don't know how to either. Will you please briefly tell us how you found posting in your note?
Thank you for posting those. I tried to find them, but couldn't.
iHub hiccupped - dup post
Similar Scenario With Slightly Different Details
1) JnJ and DECN agree on a $250 million settlement in NoCal cases plus JnJ pays all of DECN's legal expenses.
2) JnJ and DECN agree that the terms will be sealed and that they will negotiate, in earnest, all possibilities including a possible buy-out.
3) JnJ and DECN convince the Chief Magistrate to announce the Settlement was agreed to in principle. The Judge listens to the range of ideas they have been discussing. He wants to get this case off of his docket. So he agrees to the highly unusual procedure of announcing a Settlement that has not been fully defined. He also imposes a limit on the negotiations of X days, and threatens both teams with contempt of court if they don't come back with a formal, completed, agreement within the allotted time.
His parting words are: "You better get this done."
------------------
powerwalker - I think this scenario, which is also just speculation, is as plausible as the one you offered.
IMO, we're both just shooting in the dark. If both of these scenarios are equally plausible (along with many others), where to the get in helping to make a decision. It's king of fun, but I honestly don't understand the purpose (other than fun).
Free at Last!
A huge settlement would be nice, but I looks like it will be some time, before any of us here know how much it was, if ever.
But to me, the "Monumental" aspect is the actually start selling their product. Freed from JNJ's yoke of repression. That will make all the difference, assuming they execute reasonably. That is the primary reason I'm still invested.
I'm troubled by the secrecy of the Confidential Settlement too. But after a fair bit of research, there doesn't appear to be any typical answer. Most of the articles I read, that were somewhat relevant, basically painted a picture of ABA and various kind of auditors battling over this for decades. However, I didn't find a single article about financial disclosure by the recipient of a material settlement. It was all about future potential liabilities or shielding the amount actually paid.
I'm ignorant of accounting. But the one ray of light I came across, was the IRS wants it share if any part of the Settlement was taxable. So if part of the Settlement was taxable, indirect information will eventually come out, but it could be a long time.
So is my theory of a potential ray of light reasonable or hog-wash?
But the assertion that DECN was collapsing to $0.30 on the way to $0.20 looks improbable.
I'm sure you agree, unless ....
Support at .30, but "everyone knows" that is unlikely to hold up.
LOL!!!
To me, that assertion is not credible. But perhaps I'm uninformed. What evidence can you provide that "everyone knows" that your assertion is true?
Another claim about an imminent DECN Collapse always stirs passion.
The problem for me is, I've read at least 10 older posts that claimed DECN share price was about to plummet. Some even warned about "sub-penny" DECN valuation.
Let me be very clear. I believe that there is zero probability that the DECN share price will drop to $0.20 per share this year. It's possible that the share price could temporarily dip to $0.30. But the share price will be over $.50 by the end of the year.
Let's revisit this topic in January of 2017.
Carry on.
I don't care about month to month fluctuations.
My investment in DECN is much riskier than it would be in something like SPY. But it's less than 2% of my net worth. That's about the maximum amount that I'm willing to commit for a single risky investment.
I expect to be able to sell my DECN shares at a price that is several times higher than my cost within two years. But I probably won't.
Within 5 years I hope the DECN price per share to be more than 10 times what it is today. I say "hope", because no one can credibly predict what the DECN share price will be 5 years from now. I think the odds of this are greater than 50%, but that is just my judgement.
I'm on this train for the long haul, and I suspect many others are too. If the train derails, I'll exit as quickly as I can, lick my wounds, and move on. But the train seems much more likely to reach the "promised land" to me than be derailed. The negative JNJ uncertainty seems to have permanently receded.
The FAQ and Handbook seem to have disappeared. All links to them result in a 404 (not found) error.
Great list showing how much DECN has overcome
Does anyone else have something that should be added to Play's list?