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For those that have responded to my examiner posts, I will add some color so you better understand where I am coming from.
The bottom line is the examiners report has more weight then you guys think and here is why. NO ONE IS DISPUTING THE FINDINGS AND EVERYTHING THE EXAMINER SAID IS COMING TRUE SINCE 2012.
3 YEARS HENCE:
1. Examiner said money will not flow to p's or q's. Guess what, no money has flowed.
2. Examiner said any lawsuit would be frivolous. Guess what, no lawsuit filed.
3. Per footnote: Examiner did not do an analysis on the WMB loan portfolio, let me say it again, WMB. What does that mean, in the eyes of the examiner and in the probable eyes of fdick-r and in the probable eyes of susman, and in the probable eyes of any judge, THERE ARE NO WMI, IE, HOLDING COMPANY MORTGAGE PORTFOLIO ASSETS. So it becomes jpm's word against escrows, ie, UNLESS A LAWSUIT IF FILED ESCROWS DON'T HAVE A PRAYER.
4. Next up is where are the holding company assets should there be any. Examiner said there were none, and guess what, none have shown up, They are gone, jpm took them and sliced, diced, laundered, stole, washed, gave away, and the biggest one, COMMINGLED so they can't be traced back to the holding company. NOT LAWSUIT, NO WAY TO PROVE THEY WERE HOLDING COMPANY ASSETS.
Let me add some color: So, when fdick-r tells jpm, lol, to return assets, jpm will say fu, there are none, prove us wrong, wamu was so fd up that all the books are worthless, in our eyes, all the assets were banking assets and here is why. JPM can even refer to the examiners report. AGAIN, NO LAWSUIT, NO PROOF THAT JPM IS NOT RIGHT and politically fdick-r has cover with the examiners report.
The indicator that the theft was complete was the jpm pr, 30 billion in the wamu rubble. That gave jpm confidence that they commingled all the commercial paper well enough to fight off any lawsuit. Many of you thought the commercial paper had to be holding company assets, hmmm.
I know it's not fair but right does not make might in the world of high stakes banking fraud. WHAT MAKES RIGHT IS A LAWSUIT FILED ON BEHALF OF ESCROWS. PROVE FRAUDULENT CONVEYANCE AGAINST FDICK-R AND JPM AND ESCROWS HAVE A CHANCE, NO LAWSUIT, NO CHANCE.
all imo
per the examiner there will be no residuals.
tanj,
per your comment, so how much are escrows going to get. Unaudited of course.
And to all who think what we can expect is already in the UNAUDITED LT filings: well, ignorance is bliss.
all imo
donot, can you post a link to por 7 that shows the percentages you mentioned, thx
he's not!
es1, I don't think you are accurate. Can you show me in writing the ratios. q's will get a pittance compared to p's. Do you know how much p's are owed. Do you understand what common shares represent.
I would like to see it directly from the filings since you seem to think that if p's get 125 than q's will get 65. That makes no sense.
P's are owed 7.5 billion to make them whole. commons, there are what, over 2.5 billion shares outstanding.
all imo
cura, interesting, thx
ranger, we are a long way from 2 bucks, but if it does go there, add more shares. One m&a deal with a company earning 150 million and share price goes to 4 bucks easy.
all imo
goodie, sorry, but I'm pretty sure I know a lot more about what's going on then you do.
You actually think that it is part of the plan for escrows to get paid, who's plan is that you are talking about. Please don't say, susman's plan because he is long gone, he made his money and ran. please don't say rosen's, he tried to sell out equity so many times already, do you think he cares if equity makes any money, just the opposite, he will fight against equity every step of the way as he has done from day 1.
No lawsuit, no chance for recovery for escrows.
all imo
To those who continue to send me pm, they are appreciated but I can not respond to them through pm. So, the question at hand is why am I so sure that escrows are out of the money.
It's simple, because the examiner said so in his report.
" The examiner finds that it is highly unlikely that there is any scenario which will result in substantial distribution to shareholders".
In the footnote it also states that note holders made a killing because they bought for pennies on the dollar. It also states that many shareholders bought for pennies on the dollar as well but will be out of the money.
The problem with shareholders being in the money vs noteholders is simple, note holders are higher up on the waterfall and are expected to get paid in some bk's whereas shareholders are frowned upon to get paid so no one fights for shareholders and that is exactly what our situation is and that is why the waterfall will stop above escrows.
One person asked me, do I think p's have a chance. I think there is a small possibility again per the examiner report but unlikely.
On a positive note for us p holders, if a lawsuit if filed on our behalf it would not surprise me if jpm and fdick-r eventually settled for a billion $ or so. That would give p's about 125$ per share.
BUT AGAIN, NO LAWSUIT, NO CHANCE OF ANY RECOVERY WHATSOEVER.
all imo
The thought is that no one is fighting for escrows, game over. susman gone, that leaves rosen, and we know what side he is on.
some posters still think 10s of billion are still coming back, one poster still thinks 151 billion is coming back to escrows, of course before fees, lol.
all imo
Now I have heard everything, some folks on this board actually believe that Weil, Gotshal & Manges are representing escrow holders, wow. Also, like I said for a long time, Susman is long gone and has not billed in years and has not been retained.
Do the escrow dd'ers still believe the waterfall will reach p's and q's. You have an examiner representing the estate and defacto representing p's and q's making claim that it is very unlikely p's will see any monies and q's are definitely out of the money based on the examiner report.
As with 99% of all bk's, the waterfall will stop above equity. It's just the way it is peeps, always has been.
The one thing I would still like evidence of, per some very knowledgeable posters, if only 50 mil is left to be paid to piers, that would mean that 875 million has already been paid to them. I just don't recall that much being returned, but I'm probably wrong on this point. Any definitive clarification would be appreciated.
NO LAWSUIT FILED, NO CHANCE FOR ESCROWS.
all imo
mann, thx, the question I have, if piers only has 50 million left to pay that means that 850 million has already been paid to piers, I am just trying to verify that.
I realize the lawsuits are between fdick-r and jpm regarding liability but the funds if any will first come out of the estate, mark my words, fdick-r will not turn over one red cent possibly going to p's or q's if they owe jpm monies.
please don't tell me that is not the case because they are wmb debts, I know how the fdick-r works.
thx all imo
catz, can you verify weather piers were paid about 850 million so far, thx
catz, thx,
Piers were owed a total of around 1 billion dollars and if you are accurate they have been paid all but about 50 million. Is that what you are saying or am I confused. Have piers already been paid almost a billion dollars, does that make sense or am I way off base?
Regarding lawsuits, we know that DB is suing for between 6-10 billion and jpm has filed around 50 separate lawsuits regarding who owns what wmb liabilities. Than you have about 500 mil in other claims, if I recall correctly.
thx again
catz, not a trick question so let me expand.
How much is owed to Piers.
How much is owed to Tranche 5.
What is the approximate dollar total in claims (lawsuits) filed against the estate.
thx
Can someone answer based on the records where the following stands.
1. Have all General Unsecured and Senior note holders been paid in full.
2. Have all Senior Subordinated Claims been paid in full.
3. Have all Misc. Subordinated claims been paid in full.
4. Have Piers holders been paid in full.
thx
I do have to admit, the statler bot is persistant, lol. I can usually figure out the scam and the pump and dump scenario, this one has me a bit confused. On face value as one poster put it, it's dump and dump, but I don't think that is the case, not enough money in the game for the dumper, even at .0004. I think there is a little more to this one and the pump has not really started yet. If it's dump and dump, they dumpers made peanuts compared to the usual pump and dump play.
we shall see, ideas welcome, this one has me puzzled.
all imo
stanace, that is an hilarious post of yours. never buy into a hype, lol. every subpenny play is a scam and potential pump and dump, you don't think any of these pinkies are legit do you, lol.
meat, why would jpm service the loans. please don't say for the fees.
all imo
NO LAWSUITS FILED ON BEHALF OF ESCROWS, NO PAYOUT. VERY SIMPLE, JPM DOES NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN BEING SUED OR THREATENED BY A TRUSTEE AND IN OUR CASE NEITHER HAS HAPPENED. So until that happened as fdick-r has already said, jr's and share holders are out of the money.
all imo
lol, good one. I know based on experience investing in distressed debt and equity in bk'd companies. also, what happened in 2008 and the political ramifications that would take place should fdick-r turn over any real monies.
so far I'm right and all the escrow dd'ers are wrong because you have not received one penny related to return of holding company assets. until that changes you are wrong and I am right.
all imo
exactly
sure meat, than who has the assets and who has been managing them.
sure walters, if you say so. I doubt you know corporate bk law better than I. I bet you think that all the assets are being stewarded by fdick-r and jpm to the benefit of escrow holders. regarding safe harbor, so what, can you tell me who is auditing the assets and documenting which ones belong to the holding company, can you also tell me what trustee is guaranteeing that jpm does not steal what they want.
the safe harbor legal defense is only good if some entity is looking for the assets, can you tell me who that is, who is representing escrow holders.
I still say jpm has had 7 years to slice, dice, launder, wash, steal, sell, give away and the biggest one COMMINGLE ALL THE NICE LITTLE HOLDING COMPANY ASSETS.
how much have my escrows paid me, not a heck of a lot, how about yours.
all imo
wrong on all accounts fwh. they are not carrying anything off book, why would they. fdick-r has a fiduciary responsibility to return assets to their rightful owner expeditiously. why would they not do that, it would allow them to close this down sooner. so you make zero sense. you escrow dd'ers and your off book excuses, lol. the bottom line and I can prove it, FACT, fdick-r has 2.75 billion in wamu cash and over 20 billion in claims against the estate, and they stated that jr's and share holders are out of the money, fact.
all imo
meat, i posted that document as I knew it would be a lightening bolt for escrow dd'ers like yourself. Under normal situations I would agree that a good accounting firm with a good legal team could have protected those assets. the problem with wamu is they did the analysis because they knew the chit was going to hit the fan but I DON'T THINK THEY EXECUTED CORRECTLY EITHER SAFE HARBOR OR LEGAL ISOLATION. Who is managing those assets for wamu holding, you say jpm. why would they do that, unless it was a way for them to steal the assets because no one is looking for them.
where is the first escrow payout. in a normal bk, the trustee would have put 15 billion on the side to pay claims and then return the rest to creditors, bond holders and equity but there is only 2.75 billion at fdick-r so who has all the assets. JPM? why would they do anything to help assets return to wamu, it makes no sense.
If there were assets of significance there someone would know about it, right. so lets say no one knows except fdick, fdick would have sued jpm already if they were looking for any such assets.
give it up, jpm stole the assets, it's very clear to me.
all imo
walters, one problem with your theory, there is no ceo of the company trying to repatriate the assets. did you forget that, who is fighting for those assets to give to escrows. rottella, killinger, the trustee. do you understand how bk's work. who is the ceo you are talking about.
all imo
fred, hilarious, you think jail time for jpm and fdick-r execs if they don't cooperate. wow, jail time, lol. the fed bankers and investment banks destroyed the economy in 08 and not one banker got indicted. You think that they are concerned about wamu, lol. rico, lol. how naive.
JPM has sliced, diced, laundered, washed, stole, sold, commingled the wamu holding company assets, they are gone, sorry but more than likely I am correct and the escrow dd'ers thinking 10 or 100s of billions are coming back to escrows.
all imo
catz, I realize you are very proficient in your understanding of all goings on with wamu since the seizure. Bottom line, what is your opinion on weather escrows will be compensated and if so, how much and why. If yes, who is currently managing the assets iyo.
thx, all imo
meat, so where do you think all the wamu holding company assets are that were protected by legal isolation and safe harbor. who has them, who is managing them and how are they coming back to escrows and when.
thx, all imo
stocks, you are so right. early on in the kkr partnership I thought it was not feasible for kkr and citi to dump 600 mil in a wmih account just to collect fees but not so sure now. It will be very interesting to see how much was drained to pay fees for the failed m&a.
this is starting to stink more and more.
I know m&a a little bit through bain capital and a deal they worked on that i was part of.
There are a lot of deals out there, the bain deal I was involved in was 250 million acquisition of a sub of schering plough. from start to finish it took about 2 months from beginning to end to complete.
wmih comes out with the 8k stating oh no, we tried to buy something but it fell through. they should be working on 5 deals at a time to chose the best one. the deals are out there.
this is starting to seem like a pinky scam, oh, we tried to make a deal but it fell through at the last minute. Sorry, to let you know it cost 20 million in fees but didn't close.
all imo
meat, stop talking out of both sides of your mouth. you say the examiner can't review the books, so who is determining fair/book value. JPM?
Let me walk you through your own statement.
1. wamu holding company books sealed.
2. examiner can't examine books per what you said.
3. fdick-r doesn't care about escrows or jr's
4. fdick-r stated they only have 2.75 bil in cash and they state jr's and share holders out of the money.
5. jpm has had 7 years to slice, dice, wash, launder, steal, sell, commingle all the wamu holding company assets.
6. NO LAWSUIT FILED ON ESCROWS BEHALF STATING DAMAGES, SMOKING GUN, DOCUMENTATION OF SAID ASSETS, NOTHING.
So again, meat, how is this money coming back to escrows in a big way.
all imo
great post! The escrow dd'ers just don't get how the game is played when big money is involved. What I can't believe is that they have zero concerns that possession is 9/10 the law. JPM uses this as a business model. If you put money in their bank as a small or large business and you run into some trouble, jpm will keep your money until you get a law firm to represent you to force them to give it back.
I know, I had clients that that happened to, can you imagine a scum bank like jpm not allowing client segregated funds out of their bank until forced by the trustee through threat of a suit. so so sad. jpm has done this very often and the escrow dd'ers think that jpm and fdick-r will play nice and give wamu holding all their assets back. not a chance. my guess is jpm has stolen about a billion black and white assets and another 10 billion commingled.
oh well,the escrow dd'ers can dream of riches because they did the dd. lol.
all imo
meat, exactly. the infamous paa. where is that doc again? who has seen it? who is forcing the powers to be to produce it for LT holders and escrow holders? where are the wamu holding company assets, who controls them? Has the examiner produced a report describing the wamu holding company assets and who has them and what they are worth, that's his job, where is his report? Why do you think you don't know any of the aforementioned? When are all these assets going to miraculously appear?
That sure is a lot of questions that need answering and after seven years not one of them has been answered, what does that mean to you? If you think it is just a matter of time and many people working in escrows behalf know what's going on, why don't you know?
I have come to realize that so many on this board just think that shortly down the road all will become crystal clear, it won't.
I for one am a realist not like many that post on this board.
all imo
meat, the reason I posted the doc was so the escrow dd'ers could have a field day thinking that doc is the sacred cow showing wamu protected those assets.
Here is the problem, they may have tried but failed, there are so many signals that suggest that all the wamu holding company assets are gone or at least not going to escrow holders, they can't, politics alone will not allow it. It is almost impossible for me to comprehend how they would end up in escrows hands.
I played out different scenarios over and over and UNLESS A LAWSUIT WITH A SMOKING GUN IS FILED WITH A STEP BY STEP EXPLANATION OF WHY THOSE ASSETS ARE WAMU HOLDINGS AND THROW IN CRIMINAL INTENT AGAINST FDICK-R AND JPM AS A THREAT, THEY ARE NOT COMING BACK.
JPM will tie this up in court for 15 years if they have to but the crazy thing is they are not even being forced to fight for the assets. Regarding fdick-r they are in jpm's back pocket so they are useless. Susman is useless and hasn't billed in years.
Right does not make might in this situation, unfortunately.
Watch what happens over the upcoming years. The escrow dd'ers will continue to dream and dream and dream until fdick-r closes the books.
The real future could be with wmih, even though I am a little concerned and not as positive on that front because I no longer trust kkr.
I'm gone if wmih hits 1.44, so I'm sticking around until then. I will take my double and run even though I still think wmih could be a 25-35$ stock in five years if they do the m&a right. don't f us kkr. we shall see.
all imo
bban, 12.5 billion is peanuts according to some escrow dd'ers who think 25, 50, 100, 151 billion is already at fdick-r just waiting to be dispersed to escrows.
Fdick-r just appealed, the db lawsuit more than likely will drag out for several more years, that is unless db settles for a couple of billion which imo is very likely because that is how much fdick-r has of wamu monies and not a penny over 2.15 billion.
Then the receivership will be closed just as they said it would with jr's and escrows out of the money.
all imo
dork, you are right about jpm, we all know that, unfortunately you are more than likely wrong about "safe harbor" and "legal isolation".
I think the wamu bod was too stupid to protect those assets. jpm has had 7 years to slice, dice, launder, wash, commingle, steal, sell, give away, all the wamu holding company assets.
UNTIL A LAWSUIT IS FILED ON BEHALF OF ESCROWS WITH A SMOKING GUN AND HUGE DAMAGES THE WATERFALL STOPS ABOVE JR'S AND ESCROW HOLDERS.
IT'S TO BAD NO ONE IS FIGHTING FOR US.
GOOD POST THOUGH OTHER THAN YOUR CONCLUSION.
all imo
I posted it a couple of weeks ago.
goodie, goodie, goodie, what are you talking about. there are major lawuits pending against the estate and fdick, namely, DB and about 50 lawsuits filed by jpm against fdick. Until those are resolved, fdick and fdick-r stay involved.
all imo