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Hello Oldtimers, it's been a long time since my last confession, oops, wrong message board, since my last post, lol. I am still long and always thought my escrows were worthless but I still think wmih has potential. Can some of the more seasoned peeps explain any positive events that may have occurred over the last few months.
My experience with bk's has been that jpm and their high powered bean counters and attorneys have just sliced, diced, laundered, stole, washed, all the wamu holding company assets and now there is no way to trace them back to wamu.
Have any new events happened to negate my thoughts on this. Last but not least, jpm and jamie snake oil salesman dimon is/are the scum of the earth.
all imo, thx
thx shadow, I have been a little too busy to stay on top of what is going on with wmih.
Do we know where the 10.7 went. This is interesting for a number of reasons. Who collected the majority of the monies.
Was it kkr, was it some planted consultants. Does the 10.7 million include all the fees associated with analysis of m&a since the beginning of their m&a attempts or is the cost for this on deal.
If it's deal specific we have been ripped off. It should cost no where near 10.7 million to analyze one deal, but if it is for all the m&a analysis since the beginning, it's not so bad. Will we see details of where the monies went, per a 10Q, that will/would be interesting.
all imo
When is the first acquisition. Did I read the post correctly, 10 million was spent on the failed acquisition. Can someone confirm that number, thank you.
how naive some are, he is a typical lawyer, wants to pad his pockets and keep his relationships with the types of rosen and jpm, hoping for business down the road.
he did a good job if you think getting just the nols is a good job, I don't. the escrow scam was to get us to sign the releases.
why did I sign, simple, I thought that some of the big players with the help of a smoking gone would file suit against jpm and fdick for fraudulent conveyance.
all imo
lol, jpm does a lot that is illegal, so thanks for proving my point.
all imo
the only thing susman did was basic negotiations, and if not for the leverage Nate gave him, he would have sold out to the hedgies because of the pressure from Rosen, but because they judge figured out with Nate's help what was going on, Rosen caved in a very limited way. if susman was good, the gsa would have been renegotiated.
More peeps on the private board knew much more than susman regarding what was really going on.
all imo
not as tied as you think. susman is just not as good as many of you peeps think, all imo
thank you, I can never remember his name. To reiterate, if not for him, the hedgies would have gotten away with stealing wmih. susman, lucked in to a great negotiating position and we still only came away with wmih and worthless escrows. wmih is the ticket, not escorws,
all imo
halvo, susman sold us out, he made his money and because of a one in a 10k shot, he got enough leverage because mw saw that the hedgies were dishonest and corrupt. that is how we got shares in wmih, in some bk's like this, it is not unusual for the the lawyers to get escrows as a kicker just in case a little money comes back to the estate.
You guys wnat to make susman out to be the guru lawyer, he is good, but if not for the dude who stood up in court and explained to mw what the hedgies were doing we would have been toast. I can never remember the guys name.
We should be very appreciative of what he did and of course if not for dorothy? who got the law firm to represent share holders, we would have been canceled.
people tend to forget what she also did for us.
A BIG THANK YOU TO BOTH TO THEM.
But escrows still worthless but not wmih.
all imo
not able to spend as much time on this board lately, crude trader. anyway, why the pop. thx
the only monies at the fdick are the monies they stated which is 2.75 billion. that's all they got. it is illegal for them to hold monies not reported, there are no off balance sheet entries allowed per fdick-r regs. sorry to inform you.
just be happy you hold wmih, that is the winner, our escrows are worthless.
all imo
meat, thx for the props. I have thought about that doc often. My problem is that I think wamu execs were aware of the cluster f they were in and wanted a legal opinion. The problem is I don't think they were smart enough to execute the strategy.
all imo
Sure I can, it's against the law for fdick-r to hold assets that belong to an estate. It is in their regs. Sorry, nice try, lol.
all imo
not even feasible, the examiner said escrows out of the money, the fdick-r said escrows out of the money and no one leading the charge to try a clawback the wamu holding company assets, what does that say to escrow dd'ers.
all imo
picks, you are so right. the only way a suit gets filed is by escrow holders. when you have fraud like i think the fdick, and jpm committed and conspired, there is a shot if a good suit with a smoking gun is filed.
all imo
rosen is a typical scumbag bk lawyer who somehow found the gig of a lifetime. a bk that has plenty of funds to pay all the billing rosen desires.
it's a joke that he has gotten away with all the bs he has, from the days in court when he lied to the judge to the mistakes he made by literately saying he was siding with jpm and the hedge funds that owned the debt.
someone should have sued his firm but just like jpm, they all got away with the wamu theft.
said but true,
all imo
es1, sure, whatever you say. please re-read your txt, it supports my position more than I think you intended.
pick, you're so right. the fix was in, disgusting as it was. a lawsuit can still be filed. I just don't get why one has not. I could put the fing suit together myself by cutting a pasting parts of other lawsuits stating fraudulent conveyance. Not only that, with all the brain power on this board from the escrow dd'ers, it would not be hard to figure out wamu holding company assets and damages.
yes, I did complement the escrow dd'ers like I have in the past. Their dd is on target, the problem is unless they don't understand that unless a LAWSUIT IS FILED, ESCROWS GET CHIT.
all imo
blaster, be real, you know what I mean, FORMER WAMU SHAREHOLDERS WHO SIGNED THE RELEASE WERE GIVEN ESCROWS.
SHEESH.
pick, yes, the examiner said no money for shareholders and listed it in a waterfall table, he said a lawsuit is not feasible as well, which is a crock.
my point is that the examiner through his report has given the fdick and jpm a license to steal all the wamu holding company assets and very nice political cover for both.
all imo
goldy, yes they did
all imo
es1, the fdick-r has made the statement in everyone of their quarterly, I think quarterly, filings regarding wamu former shareholders. They always state that it is very LIKELY that there will be no money for jr's and shareholders.
all imo
agreed, I could care less about what that chit head rosen says but you are right, the examiner and fdic-r both said no money for escrows.
all imo
pickstocks, hmm, worthless nol's, interesting. you have not done your research my friend, I have. nol's are actually worth more than what the filings indicated based on the type of acquisition they make. instead of being worth about 2 billion they actually can be worth about 4.5 billion. you also forgot why wmih sp is at 2.4$, and please don't say that is not a significant share price because it is, that is if you understand anything about leveraged acquisitions.
what is worthless is my darn escrows.
all imo
even though I am not as pro kkr as before, primarily because of their oil play disaster and the sec fine, that has not stopped me from holding long and strong.
What it did do is force me to do a lot more dd and I'm feeling better about kkr, their track record in leveraged deals is good and their track record in deals like wamu is even better, ie, tax beneficial deals with lower starting share price like the 50 cents ours launched at.
all imo
thx pyramid, that makes complete sense.
123, so the article is definitively inaccurate, is that what you are saying.
thx, I copied the blurb, are you telling me that the tepper/appoloosa filing does not match what this article says.
WMIH Corp. (NASDAQ:WMIH)
Tepper bought 16,902,465 shares of WMIH Corp., a 1.52% portfolio weight. Its share price averaged $2 for the quarter.
WMIH Corp., formerly WMI Holdings Corp., consists of WM Mortgage Reinsurance Company Inc. WMIH Corp. has a market cap of $472.13 million; its shares were traded at around $2.29.
thx pyramid, do you have a link to that article
been busy with december crude expiration, now, locked and loaded for jan.
don't have time to read and catch up, but have one question, DID TEPPER BUY IN BIG WITH WMIH SHARES per his corporate filing???
I thought I read that a week or so ago.
any references would be appreciated, thx
fred, not a lot of time this a.m. but I will try to quickly anser your questions, in caps.
question regarding the livinglies blog that just came out, which i know you read.
have you figured out where the assets are? surly you have to wonder that question yourself.
YES, THE SAME BUSINESS MODEL JPM USES TO STEAL ASSETS FROM DISTRESSED COMPANIES, THEY LAUNDER, WASH AND COMMINGLE THE ASSETS TO MAKE THE HARD TO TRACE, ESPECIALLY SINCE NO LAWSUIT HAS BEEN FILED THEY ARE IN THE CLEAR, UNFORTUNATELY.
even the writer said what ive been wonderng for years. he wondered why jpm hasnt addressed the loan value with its shareholders.
THEY HAVE STARTED TO SET THE TABLE WITH THE 30 BILLION IN THE RUBBLE PR. MANY ON THIS BOARD WERE SO SURE THAT COMMERCIAL PAPER WAS A WAMU HOLDING COMPANY ASSET, BUT I GUESS NOT.
30 billion in rubble was just a scoop of ice cream. but if jpm got it all. why have they not adjusted the stock price along with letting shareholders know a value of 240 billion in assets were going to be added. jamie d said that in 2009 in its letter to shareholders if you recall.
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TOUT WHAT THEY DID, IT WOULD MAKE TO MANY WAVES. THEY ARE SLOWLY GOING TO USE THE GAP GRAY AREAS TO MAKE ALL THOSE ASSETS SEEM LIKE JPM'S. THEY HAVE ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO DO THIS, WHY, BECAUSE NO ONE IS LOOKING FOR ANY OF THOSE ASSETS, IE, NO LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST JPM FOR FRAUDULENT CONVEYANCE.
if the loans were written down to less then 10 cents on the dollar, i highly doubt wamu asset corp could report over 20 billion in residential loans. not to mention jpm's tally of 151 billion in 203.
WHY DO YOU GUYS KEEP BRINGING THIS UP, IT IS IRRELEVANT. IT IS ACCOUNTING MAGIC THAT'S ALL. YOU GUYS WANT TO SPECULATE FROM A RIGHT AND WRONG AND BLACK AND WHITE PERSPECTIVE. WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHY JPM IS DOCUMENTING THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE, WHY NOT KEEP IT SIMPLE AND JUST UNDERSTAND THAT JPM WAS GIVEN A GIFT OF THE WAMU HOLDING COMPANY ASSETS/BOOKS AND HAS THE BEST BEAN COUNTERS AND BEST ATTORNEYS IN THE WORLD. ALL JAMIE BOY HAS TO DO IS TELL THESE GROUPS TO COME UP WITH LEGAL POSITIONS ON WHY THE ASSETS OUR JPM'S AND USE THE GAAP GRAY AREAS TO MAKE IT LEGAL. BAM, DONE.
so its proves they didnt write it down nothing. as they claim its book value the prove to the world the loans do exist and hold substantial value.
PROOF TO THE WORLD, ARE YOU KIDDING ME, WHAT PROOF, NOT ONE LEGAL CHALLENGE, NOT ONE REPORTER RAISING A RED FLAG... WHAT PROOF, THE ASSETS ARE COMMINGLED AND GONE.
you suggest fdic has an obligation to release... well doesnt jpm have an obligation to infuse the mortgages in its banking operations. isnt there a guy on the jpm side saying. WHERE THE HECK is my value for the 151 Billion in mortgages we stole from wamu. im sure that guy wants to see stock value for that right?
NOT REALLY, THERE IS AN OLD SAYING THAT YOU MAY HAVE HEARD, IE, COMPLICATED AND COMPLEX THAT ONLY A FEW PEOPLE INVOLVED CAN EVEN UNDERSTAND IT. LOOK IT UP, MANY EXPERTS IN DERIVATIVE FINANCING THINK THAT IS EXACTLY HOW THE SHADOW BANKING SYSTEM WORKS. I BET THAT SOME MEMBERS ON THIS BOARD UNDERSTAND 100X BETTER WHAT REALLY IS GOING ON THEN 99% OF THE EXECS AT JPM.
but hes not... infact non of them ever did. its just as the livinglies blog suggests... nobody got the loans. they just disappeared. so even your claim that jpm got it all is actually false.i think if you start there you will start to see what the escrow group is saying.
THAT MAKES NO SENSE IMO, THE LOANS HAVE TO BE SERVICED OR SOLD OR COMMINGLED AND THE COMMINGLING IS WHAT I AM SURE IS HAPPENING, WHY, IT IS STATED VERBATIM IN THE 30 BILLION IN THE RUBBLE PR.
after 7 years of washing and laundry and commingling why wont they take possession?
THEY HAVE.
what took jpm soooo long to claim them in there 10Q?
NOW YOU ARE GETTING SOME WHERE, IT TAKES TIME FOR THE BEST LAW FIRMS AND ACCOUNTING FIRMS TO COME UP WITH A LEGAL WAY FOR THE THEFT.
your so busy explaining away the assets you never once question jpm's ownership actions.
??????, DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION
ill tell you my opinion... i think wamu screwed jpm over. i think wamu allowed jamie d to think they got a easy deal, but instead handed over a rats nest of problems.
OMG, PLEASE SAY YOU ARE KIDDING.
now if the rats nest of problems lead to major mortgage fraud like TB&W did to colonial bank then i understand the hidden agenda. but thats not the case here.
WOW
jpm has had time to do due diligence the summer before the seizure. it offered 8 bucks. not to mention jpm has found true value (30 billion in apartment loan portfolio).
true value does exist.
WHO IS CHALLENGING JPM IN COURT AND TRYING TO GET THE ASSETS BACK. JPM DOES NOT, LET ME REPEAT DOES NOT GIVE A DISTRESSED COMPANY BACK ANYTHING UNLESS SUED OR THREATENED BUY A TRUSTEE IN MY EXPERIENCE AND STUDY OF JPM ACTIONS.
why didnt jpm in 2012 add the 151 Billion in its portfolio. but it waited 2 more years.
LEGAL REASONS, GAAP REASONS, STRATEGIC REASONS....
i know your all about common sence and you know jpms wicked games. doesn't this seem kind of out of character of jpm to hold off on documenting the loans. in a sence stating ownership?
THAT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION, LET ME THROW THIS BACK AT YOU, THE 30 BILLION IN COMMERCIAL PAPER, CAN YOU TRACE THAT BACK TO BEING WAMU'S AT ONE TIME IN THE JPM BOOKS OR 10K/QS
seems as though there was a hold up, doesn't it?
LIKE ABOVE, IT TAKES TIME FOR THE THEFT TO BECOME LEGIT.
why would they not... even still to this day... not have a shareholders meeting and discuss the 151 Billion in residential loans. we know that value is concrete or else jpm would have down played that figure.
THEY HAVE STARTED SETTING THE TABLE WITH THE 30 BILLION IN THE RUBBLE. IT TAKES TIME, THERE MAY BE ANOTHER PR THAT STATES THAT THEY RAN OFF ALL THE WAMU MORTGAGES AT A LOSS WHEN IN FACT THEY MADE A KILLING. WHO KNOWS, BOTTOM LINE THE ASSETS ARE GONE.
seems to me jpm is too afraid to adjust its share price because deep down it has a gut feeling they are gunna have to give them up.
GOOD POINT, YOU MAY BE RIGHT ON SHARE PRICE, MY THOUGHT IS THAT THE FEW EXECS THAT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WITH ALL THEIR LAWYERS HOW TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A LEGAL POSITION FOR THE THEFT JUST IN CASE THEY GET SUED. IT BLOWS MY MIND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SUED YET FOR FRAUDULENT CONVEYANCE OR WHATEVER ELSE THE ILLEGALLY MAY HAVE DONE.
jpm is not really playing the part you suggest. And for that matter their late address to the 151 Billion in loans?
??????????????, DON'T UNDERSTAND
you mentioned 7 years of slicing and dicing and there they sit!
now that they sliced them up , they just sit and not a single jpm shareholder wonders about them?
so far to date they got 30 billion apartment loan portfolio, 151 Billion in residential loans
wamu asset corp 20+ billion....
hmmmm no stock value?
THEY ALSO GOT 30 BILLION IN THE RUBBLE HOW MUCH DID THEIR STOCK VALUE GO UP ON THAT. WOW, 151 BILLION IS ON 5X THAT AMOUNT, RIGHT, SO SLOWLY BUT SURELY THEY WILL ACCLIMATE WHATEVER THE AMOUNT OF THE THEFT IS INTO THEIR BOOKS AND COMMINGLE COMMINGLE COMMINGLE.
no jpm shareholder meeting?
no media news about the accomplishments if 200 billion in residual profit?
seems out of character to me.
NOT TO ME, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF JPM AS THE KEY BANK IN THE ENTIRE SYSTEM. WAMU WAS SACRIFICED TO SAVE JPM WHY ARE YOU SURPRISED THEY ARE NOT SHOUTING THE THEFT FROM THE ROOFTOPS.
OR
maybe they had to pay book value which explains 200 billion in loans sitting around
NOT EVEN POSSIBLE, YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE 200 BILLION IS A PITTANCE.
im very curious to see your point why jpm has waited so long to document all of this in 2014
WHO KNOWS AND WHO CARES, NO ONE IS LOOKING FOR ANY ASSETS.
and more importantly im curious to understand your idea why shareholders receive zero information on over 200 billion in assets.
LIKE I SAID ABOVE, IT'S A DIRTY GAME AND JPM KNOWS THEY CAN NOT ANNOUNCE AS YOU THINK THEY SHOULD. CTHE 30 BILLION IN THE RUBBLE PR SAYS IT ALL. HOW COME JPM'S STOCK DID NOT EXPLODE AFTER THAT ANNOUNCEMENT.
ONE LAST POINT, IMO THE WAMU HOLDING COMPANY HAD NO WHERE NEAR THE ASSETS YOU STATE, WHY, BECAUSE THEY SAID SO AS PART OF THE BK FILING. THEY SAID NET 24 BILLION IF I REMEMBER. ALSO, MY EXPERIENCE WOULD LEAD ME TO SPECULATE THAT OF THE 24 BILLION OVER THE YEARS JPM REALIZED OR COOKED THE BOOKS TO WHERE YOU CAN NOT TELL IF THOSE ASSETS WERE WMB ASSETS OR HOLDING COMPANY ASSETS.
GOTTA GO, I WROTE THIS VERY QUICK, HOPE IT MAKES SENSE AND AS ALWAYS THIS IS MY OPINION AND MINE ALONE
i wait your response
sure they are, they are trying to figure out how to release all those billions, wow, how some peeps think.
all imo
you still think jpm transferred 151+ billion dollars/assets over to fdick-r and you think that whatever is in cash is sitting in a wells fargo account just for escrows and you think that fdick-r is managing the runoff mortgage portfolios for escrows and I bet you think that fdick-r has opened a little cottage business and is writing new mortgages to help escrows make more money because fdick-r feels so bad that they turned over the wamu holding books to jpm, lol. wow.
by the way, why hasn't fdick-r turned any of these assets or monies over to the estate, it is their fiduciary responsibility to do so. what are they waiting for.
so far, how much has been returned to escrows, ouch.
of course all off book, lol.
all imo
green, you post makes some good points but the final conclusion once again is highly unlikely.
you say:
So when you look at the real actions, then it makes since that WMIH needs a foundation before they purchase former WaMu assets from WMILT or the BELOVED Escrow Share owners who are now the owners of the former WaMu Estate. Now this could still work many ways, but what WMIH 8K filing may have shown us is they need a platform first. Then they bring back former WaMu assets either simultaneous to the platform purchase or a short time later such as when WMIH is FULLY merged with WMIIC which may contain a whole lot of GOLD!
Unfortunately there are no assets of any substance left that can be traced to the wamu holding company, jpm has made sure of that over the past 7 years. that is plenty of time for jpm to use so many different strategies to steal the assets. Plus they have political cover with the examiners report. Plus, no one is suing jpm for the assets, plus the fdick-r said escrows are out of the money with juniors, plus jpm put out a pr that stated that they found 30 billion in the wamu ruble that most escrow dd'ers were certain were the holding companies assets, ie, the commercial paper.
I hope I am wrong but I doubt it, this is what jpm does when they get their hands on distressed assets, they just take them and you have to fight to get them back and no one is fighting for those assets. game over for escrows.
all imo
the post of the year. we tend to forget why we can walk freely. with all the problems in the u.s. there is one constant, those who serve our country in the military have never let us down.
thank you!
I would say 4 years is long enough for at least information on when escrows will be paid, don't you think, sheesh.
how many more years you going to wait.
all imo
sorry dude, but I was one of the first to sign, lol, why, I thought for certain susman would step up and sue jpm and fdick for fraudulent conveyance but susman was to much of a yes man for jpm, and rosen.
all imo
maybe that is why susman was hired, the powers to be knew susman would settle and screw retail shareholders.
all imo
really, so, shareholders had no right to sue before the por 6 was approved. no, what happened is that everyone thought susman was a god and was going to deliver big returns for shareholders. in hindsight it is easy for some to see what happened.
even though we lucked out with the dude explaining to the judge what the hedgies were up to, even with all that ammo and the judge on our side, the best deal that susman could cut was shares in wmih and an escrow opportunity. move forward 5 years and ask yourself why no news, why susman has not come out and shouting that jpm stole the assets, why no lawsuit using fraudulent conveyance to get those assets back. why no former wamu exec shouting that he knows wamu holding had billions in assets, just ask yourself why.
why, because susman did what attorneys do, he collected his fees from the estate, he did not pzzz rosen off so he kept that relationship going and he did not pzzz jpm off so he has future opportunities there. wamu execs do what they do best, cover their azz. and the rest is history.
some are just so so naive.
all imo
bban, interesting, what are you alluding to, thx