Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Economike
Here is the reality I have googled:
"Can the US refine enough oil?
The United States has adequate refinery capacity to process its current and projected crude production, however the free world oversupply of refining capacity will persist through the few remaining years of increasing world crude oil production and thereafter." But you are entitled to indulge in wishful thinking.
downthehatch I thought there was a high risk that the party was over but I did not claim that it was. The reason was that I expected the relevant crack spreads would be much lower than in the past. So far I seem to be right in this respect as far as jet fuel is concerned. I checked the future crack spreads are concerned. They are very stable at about 20 dollars per barrel. This leaves little room for profits.
Based on the above and what has happened so far it was a big surprise why the earnings per share for the first quarter were so high. I have seen no good reason why the pps has been soaring ahead recently. I have seen no information that gives a good reason for expecting the future of this sort of business to be rosy rather than dim.
I sold my remaining shares to but a stock you recommended here - TMNA. That proved to be a total disaster financially. I bought well over 200 000 shares at an average price of more than 30 cents per share. The market now things that this company is an almost total swindle. The pps is about 6 cents. I sold all my shares at a pps not much above 6 cents. I invested the money I received in several stocks. Among these I bought 2,000 shares in this company at a pps of about 4.15 dollars. Percentagewise I am up nicely on those shares. I had almost 44,000 shares at one stage. At the current pps those shares would have had a nice value right now. The way the pps of this stock has been totally incomprehensible to me in view of the information that has been available relative to the business of this company.
bilvo I think I agree with you. At the same time it appears a bit strange that the stock price of a company is up 50% when that company does not get what it seemed entitled to and gives another company a few months to meet its obligations. In such situations the normal action would have been for TIO to ask for forbearance I think and to provide information suggesting that the obligations would be met later.
I find this very interesting. Solomon has acted as a swindler a long time ago it appears. A Swedish group appear to have been deceived losing a double-digit number of dollars and an American investor a few million dollars. I met him personally at a hotel in Oslo after he had talked for hours for the Norwegian investor who not so long ago tried to save something for the shareholders of SIAF.
Dawg I think there is little doubt that TIO "is doing business" but how big that business is is the central question. Fraudulent companies can be doing business but the business may be a low fraction of what has been claimed. This was the case of the Chinese company CCME which was also on NASDAQ. My guess now is that this goes for TIO too, but only time will show.
Dawg What was suposed to happen before the end of June was not a corporate measure but a measure by a different entity - a go-ahead for TMNA receiving several tens of percent of the shares of TIO based on my understanding of the situation,
Johnstown You ignore that we are now past a crucial deadline. I see no information regarding what seems not to have happened when it comes to TMNA shareholders getting a lot of shares in TIO.
aandt I notice that the number of shares traded in TIO has come down to much lower numbers that in the past. But the pps seems fairly stable. Hence there cannot be much selling pressure these days.
sparty I think the point is to move management to keep us informed as well as possible IN A REAL WAY.
RD I suggest you communicate this to the person you sent a pretty aggressive message to as the background for your message.
RD "And he should be careful not to piss us off any further by sending us AI-generated replies." Thanks! I see your point. The reply lacked specification.
RD How do you kow that Zhang is the culprit here and not people in China?
modes I feel the same way. But to me a stock price of let's say 30 cents (which was a reality for some minutes a few years ago) would be a step ahead too.
I generally support these guidelines. I will just mention one: "Links to promotion content must include free, informative and actionable content i.e. not behind a paywall or requires registration" I find it very irritating when it is impossible for me to read the contents of the link.
'
Sincerely,
Asbjorn Lauvstad (I have myself written more than 17,000 posts even though I am a Norwegian living in Norway)
Perfectson "Doubtful there is much naked shorting going on with only 10% short interest .
Anyone speaking about naked shorting is just creating strawmans to distract from what’s really going on."
My impression is that y the contention is that heavy naked shorting happened in the years before this year, The forerunner of the current Tingo Group seemed to have dismal prospects based on the losses. If really big money was to be made recently it would be through naked shorting. But you may be right that this is just a strawman. I don't know.
It seems pretty clear to me that there have been lies presented by the company. But some scams are not total scams. That was the case with the Chinese NASDAQ scam CCME. Institutions were taken in. There was a real business but it was much smaller than claimed, My guess is that this is the case with TMNA and TIO as well.
Perfectson If there is a short interest that matters it is naked. The other short interest is so limited that it does not matter much. It is less than 10% of the O/S.
Perfectson
My hunch is that your points are valid. But you come up with assertions and not much evidence. If the information presented had been true there is a lot of cash and it is increasing a lot during the first quarter. One gets the impression that not much cash is required to grow fast. Hence cash dividends are natural to incrase the very low current credibility. If there are substantial cash dividends paid over several quarters it would convince the stock market that the company generates a lot of profit I guess. Almost all companies would like to see their fair value or more reflected in the stock price I think.
bilvo You should read my post once more. I comment on a coming quarterly report in August. Such reports are normally not audited. If the past qudited report is called in question a coming unaudited report will have even less credibility.
I am aware of the audit in Israel. Why has this country been chosen? TMNA has no business in Israel I assume. A possibly explanation is that the US activity of the Tingo Group has some activity in Israel if my memory does not forget me and that Dozy may have got a hint that it might be possible to get an audit from a firm with a well-known name there.
Dawg Of course your interpretation may be the right one. I am an amateur as far as this stock is concerned. I do get the impression that the trading has seemed unnatural during recent weeks. One thing that has surprised me is that there have been so many very small trades including a few hundred shares. I get the impression that this has been genuine retail.
I look forward with great interest to the report from White and Case.
"as well as automatic Pref B conversions later this month" My impression has been that these conversion are not to be automatic at all and that it is quite uncertain if they will happen. I have also read some information to the effect that if they don't happen there is an alternative to achieve at least some of the same effect.
I don't know if you listened to the CC a few months ago. Generally it seemed very convincing to me. Some seemingly ticklish topics were addressed. One was from a person who had tried to find out the activities of the farmers selling their products by getting linked to the system (my amateurish way of putting it). His finding was that there was surprisingly little activity going on. Dozy commented on the reason. His reply was rather technical and did not make any sense to me. I assumed that was because of my lack of technical knowledge. Of course one possible activity is that the whole system is a facade and that there was not much activity going on. Have you listened to that CC?
Johnstown This is not only 3 million shares today. Very few days have had a higher number. What has been peculiar regarding this stock is that so few shares have been for sale. When I became aware of this stock during Easter I was very impatient and bought 70,000 shares on one day. My purchases caused the pps to rise tens of percent to not much below 40 cents. This information is based on my memory.
Makinez Have you still not understood that the stock market clearly now assumes that the numbers are false. They are not even audited. More false numbers will be ignored by the stock market if the numbers are not validated in the report from the legal firm.
Dawg "They cant seem to clear those short positions." I don't understand why you assert that. 12 million shares is less than have been traded on quite a few days I think. I take it that those who are short expect the pps to lower so that it is not in their interest to cover short positions. This suggests they still think the company is a scam not worth the current market cap.
Today so far more shares have traded in TMNA than in TIO! This is a very rare situation.
Punchinello The crucial point right now is to what extent Tingo Group and Tingo Inc are scams. Hindenburg is a well-known shortseller that is responsible for a very damaging presentation of the Tingo Group. Some class actions may be on the stocks. Some attempts at defense in Nigeria have been linked to here. To what extent are they convincing? I don't know. I am totally out for the time being, having sustained a substantial loss.
You are right that cash dividends have been more or less promised by Tingo Group from some time this year. My assessment is now that they represent so much wishful thinking. I doubt that Tingo Group is a very good buy at the current pps. It could be that these companies might have an interesting future in Nigeria. But even if this the case I think Tingo Group will trade at a very low p/e for a long time to come because of the uncertainties that abound.
Dawg Thanks for your comments! I don't know what to think. I have no doubt that Hindenburg had a strong financial incentive to present a very negative picture of the situation and that this picture may be very misleading. Somebody suggested 30% scam and 70% corrct information or the opposite. My feeling now is that this may not be so far from the truth. But I feel very uncertain what is the right relative value of honoraTMNA versus TIO right now. I suspect that TMNA may not own 75% of TIO as from the end of this month. In short, I don't trust Dozy to act in a honorable way. My assessment is that so much uncertainty will attach to both companies in the months and years to come that the p/e will stay very low, assuming that profits are generated.
Dawg Is the following true? "Who is afraid of TINGO Group, the fintech company owned by Dozy Mmobuosi"? Are City People credible? The English is strange in certain places. Is it some sort of translation from a different language? The implication of this article seem to be that a previous presentation was not correct. It is now referred to a 24-month time frame. Based on my memory it was suggested previously that progress in building the factory had been good despite a much shorter time frame. If this is correct it could hardly have been true. Some back-pedalling seems to have occurred.
DAWG I find this presentation a good deal more convincing than the one I commented on a few days ago. A lot more people are involved and the timing of 24 months more realistic. About 100 people are said to be at work. It should be fairly easy to monitor the progress to decide if it seems scammy or not. What I find very interesting is that this news seems to have had no effect on the stock price. How come?
bilvo After watching this my verdict is that the jury is still out. It would hardly have cost much to do what is presented here. In a country where corruption and fraud abound it may not have been impossible to pay off to take part if this is a scammy presentation. One the other hand, this could be an indication that things have at long last started to happen when it comes to building the food factory.
RD "We have to move fast because once these companies turn profitable, the IRS (tax agencies) will give us a hard time about the value of the shares, which could have implications for your income tax or wealth tax." This has been one of my worries regarding IREEM LLC. I tried to explain the situation to the tax authorities, suggesting a value of what I had paid myself.
RD It is early days yet. Time will show.
RD It this happens it would be fantastic for me who own so many shares in IREEM LLC.
RD very interesting and exciting update. You state: "
4 private companies, each with 100M shares outstanding. 16.2% or 16.2M shares will be distributed to ITUP shareholders. Which means you will get 1 share of each company for every ITUP share you own. These will not be stock dividends. These shares will be issued to ITUP shareholders for $0.0001 per piece, similar to the offering we did earlier for Cow Capital."
I assume the 4 private companies are expected to go public the same way that Cow Capital is supposed to so that we can trade the shares that are distributed to ITUP shareholders can be traded by ITUP shareholders. Otherwise ITUP shareholders would have been better served by ITUP retaining the shares since ITUP will return to being listed on a major stock stock exchange in my view.
aandt Later today TMNA is moving down too: "0.0526
-0.0029
-5.23%
0.0481 / 0.0514 (1 x 1)"
Zorax I had not assumed that the scamming was so total as you assume. Time will show.
Zorax If all numbers are more or less false I agree that it may perhaps be of no interest if Tingo INC sold at an early stage a large part of its shares in Tingo Group. As I suggested if this information is true the implication that this is a scam is reinforced.
zero "It’ll be halted any day now and delisted completely."
tt was the risk of this happening that largely made me sell my last 70,000 shares in TMNA. I risked not being able to use my big loss for tax-loss purposes. This is more important to me than a small change in the pps.
Perfectson You seem to forget what the company has stated. A well-known law firm has been entrusted with the task of a thorough investigation of the assertions made by Hindenburg. This can be expected to take a fairly long time. If my memory does not fail me Tio Group has stated that there will be no rebuttal before this report is out.
Dawg Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding.
DK I found the following interesting information in the article: " As of March 30, 2023, Tingo, Inc. owned 15.7% of Tingo Group's outstanding common stock." I had the expectation that it had been about 100%. A possible implocation is that Tingo Inc was in the process of selling its shares in Tingo Group. That must have been at a pps per share that in now way reflected the values in Tingo Group since the pps of TIO had not risen much by March 30. To me the implication seems to be that Tingo Inc regarded Tingo Group as a scam since the shares seem to have been sold very cheaply. Is my reasoning logical? Any comments on the issues this reduction of the shares Tingo Inc had in Tingo Group as of March 30, 2023?
Dawg I wonder what credibility these statements have right now. Since Tingo Group is in very deep trouble now regarding its credibility it has a very strong incentive to try to get the farmers' organisation to present information that bolsters the claims Tingo Group has stated in its SEC filings and public releases. In these circumstances I wonder how credible it is when it is suggested that there are about 11 million farmers linked to cooperation with Tingo Group. There is also a lot of corruption in Nigeria. Is it possible that the person/persons who have written this public release have been paid royally to include content that is favorable for Tingo Group?