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My understanding is that the collateral shares will also receive the dividends, but they have to give it back together with the SIAF shares upon loan repayment
The collateral shares do not carry any dividend or voting rights. Therefore, the Finansavisen statement, “ … lenders have been issued Sino Agro shares as collateral,which worsens the value of the (anticipated Tri-Way) dividend” is not accurate
Please Provide Proof to your statement
I confronted some of the lies being spread on another forum with this; if SIAF was a scam like the claim was, the it must mean that Tony was in on this "scam"... The poster refused to accuse Tony of being in on a scam and just changed the topic (over and over again since I refused to let it go, but eventually had to ignore the post because of all the new lies that were being spread to distract).
Dan and Solomon should learn from Tony; be frank about what is working and what is not, and they'll win at least SOME credibility.
The (small) bright light in the tunnel is that it SEEMS that Solomon isn't as reckless with TRW as with SIAF. I.e as soon as we have the TRW-shares we can breath a little easier (he might still continue to mess up SIAF, but at least some of the value would be "safe")
Actually, I would have preferred to have my 0.85TRW/SIAF-share on a non-tradable account with my broker, than having had Solomon destroy that dividend into 0.425TRW/SIAF-share like we have now... The irony is that if Solomon had done what he promised in CC Q1, the dilution would have been way less, we wouldn't have been trading at 30 cents now if he had delivered when the PPS was at $3!
fwb My question about currency was meant to lock his promise so that he could not make an excuse ("oh, I meant $, not NOK").
With terms of tossing numbers I have no expectations that the PPS will be even remotely close to $17 any time soon (maybe "soon" after the TRW-listing if you include the value of the TRW-shares that have been distributed, TRW is able to grow and get a nice PE on HKSE, AND we also have financing for TRW and/or SIAF this year)
Not sure when "in the next few weeks" is (in terms of the 10-Q Q2/18), but assuming moderate dilution we should see a PPS above $1 shortly after we get a record-date and/or an exact number of TRW-shares pr SIAF-share for the first distribution. This might be by the end of September (if "next few weeks" is 3-5, or if they commit on it in the CC - but that might not be enough, cfr CC Q1/17...) or mid-October (if they hold the AGM and make it offical then).
If they don't mess things up, then we should never go below $1 again - even after they have distributed both batches of TRW-shares. Post-distribution we will still have the (min) 10cents/year and - equally, or maybe even more important - rebuilt some credibility to which a 10% yield should be generous (assuming very modest dilution and not non-existing EPS)
NOK10 or $10?
Some fuzzy plan about a distribution some time in the future doesn't justify a press release or announcement, is what I'm saying
True. Also, it should affect SIAFs value as well. First for the TRW-shares that remain in SIAF, but with time the market might start to price SIAF with a higher PE (at least if the dilution stops)
The average PE for HKSE seems to be at 12.5 at the moment (if this site can be trusted https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/hong-kong/pe-ratio) which leaves some room then
They will tell you exactly how much the value is per SIAF share
It will be very interesting to see the PPS before the first ex date and before the second ex date.
With a normal company we would expect the PPS to be highest before the first ex date, but with SIAF you never know... I expect that we will have a heavy discount (although not as much as today) even after the first ex date is set.
Ideally we'll have the first TRW ex date soon, followed by an ex date for the cash dividend for H2/18 and then the second TRW ex date a month after that. That way Solomon should have rebuilt some crebility before the second ex date so that the PPS will trade higher.
Throw in a financial deal of some sort and the PPS might not fall too much after the second ex date either (countered by anticipated EPS from CA).
One crucial thing with the TRW-ex dates though is to state how many TRW-shares pr SIAF-share there will be in the first distribution (ideally both) so that potential shareholders know that their dividend-shares will not be diluted... If we just get "12.7M TRW-shares" then the PPS will not rise as much since 1) people will expect more dilution, and 2) people will fear it is a scam and that we'll have massive dilution before the ex date. Do you think Solomon will get this one right?
they probably won't get the collateral shares back before the first distribution
The collateral shares do not carry any dividend or voting rights
How many Tri-Way shares will 1 Siaf share ??
The meeting will be held on fredag, oktober 12, 2018 and shareholders of record will be able to vote and ask questions online during the meeting
Looks like we have a virtual shareholder meeting planned on Oct 12
New investors - and especially institutional investors - should also take a look at the OS and how this has changed over the years, that should scare them of even with the dividends... (we should of course see some increase from the current PPS, but that will be from retail who is willing to take a risk on future dilution). I.e we need to stop the dilution before the dividends, and it seems that we might need a financial trigger (for TRW and/or SIAF) to stop dilution. Solomon is lining up quite a lot of costs for the next 6+ months though, which should be an indicator that financing will be in place maybe within the year (whether it is the TRW-loan, pre-IPO, CA-partnership, sale of assets or whatever)
I doubt TRW will pay any income/interest on the preferred shares, cfr that TRWs debt is rentfree as the moment.
They could of course pay a minor dividend to "prepare" for the IPO, but I assume that TRW will rather use the money for growth (at least until financing).
I wonder if they are close to the pre-IPO for (or other financing deals for TRW and/or SIAF). They are lining up with a lot of financial responsibilities the next 6-12 months! Collateral shares, Garret, ECAB, cash dividend... Some of this might be easy to postpone, but they MUST have some CERTAIN plan (AND back-up plan), no?
snow
As of the date of this report, the Company has paid $3.5 million with $12,089,000 remaining owed on the $15,589,000 balance
On the bright (?) side it seems that they have continued the downpayments to ECAB, although no downpayments would have meant no need to issue shares (given that Solomon would be able to not spend that cash). Hopefully SIAF will not issue shares to pay the Garret-loan (Solomon might be crazy enough to do that, but I expect that Garret would be furious if that was the case)
Convertible preferred shares that is. You think the convertible part is not an option - i.e we can't choose between shares and cash? Conversion date might be post IPO, i.e at a time when TRW should have the cash if people don't want to convert (although it should be more beneficial to convert than to take the cash if we do get an option)
TRW will issue "I owe you notes" to shareholders of SIAF. This note will be convertible into TRW-shares for $3.41 on a later date (a date they might announce at the same date as the record date).
Further; these "I owe you notes" will be distributed in two rounds. Maybe the 11.89% (?) first and then the 6.41% later.
6.5MUSD is gross profits for Q2/17 (5.4MUSD for Q2/18). Net earnings are 0.9MUSD. You want to use 2 cents for the PE
This also depends on how long it will take till the ex date, i.e how much dilution Solomon will put us through before they are distributed (there might also be dilution between the two ex dates).
There are other unknowns as well; the 5.2MM shares for ECAB (that might be renegotiated) isn't issued yet I believe (and 400k TRW-shares will go to ECAB anyways).
There has been a lot of back and forth with the collateral shares, but the last information (the response to Finansavisen) was that they are NOT entitled to any dividend (earlier they had to return the dividend upon repayment of the collateral loans).
Currently we have 42.9MM shares.
Best case; no more dilution, collateral shares does not get dividend (or get from the remaining 18.3% and have to return later), and the ECAB-note is renegotiated into cash settlement also without the 400k TRW-shares being giving. That gives 18.3M TRW-shares between 42.9-8.4=34.5MM SIAF-shares, i.e 0,53TRW/SIAF in dividend.
Realistic case? Some more dilution, collateral shares does not get dividend (according to the last information we have), 5.2MM for ECAB and 400k TRW-shares. That gives 17.9MM TRW-shares between 42.9-8.4+5.2+dilution=42MM???, i.e 0.42TRW/SIAF in dividend
Do we know that the collateral shares are included in the OS of common shares btw? Also, there seems to be some fault in the 10-Q; in the 10-K it states that as of December 31st there were 5.7MM shares for TFA&B (page 27) and 2.7MM shares for third parties. I.e a totalt of 8.4MM shares. In the 10-Q they refer to 4.8MM shares being unchanged from December 31st
Merkur currently above MA100 (both weighted and arithmetic). Will be interesting to see if OTC allows us to climb, or if yesterdays increase in OS is waiting to be dumped...
Great that they filled in time
It probably doesn't have any effect to send it as a question for the CC - they'll just ignore the question and let us live in uncertainty whether they can afford it or not... Unfortunately we need a financial trigger more than ever
Another somewhat misleading and onesided article from Hegnar;
https://www.hegnar.no/Nyheter/Boers-finans/2018/08/Sino-Agro-Food-taper-penger
Yes, the SIAF-conglomerate had a loss of 2,1MUSD, but 1) That is ex TRW which brings the number to -0,5MUSD, and 2) That is the conglomerate and not our share, which is +0,9MUSD.
The article shows the quality (well, lack thereof) in the journalism; not a single word about the TRW-dividend...
The Company reiterates its dividend policy announced last quarter; that is:
o For 2018: USD 0.05/share to be declared and payable during Q4 2018, ex-dividend and payment dates to be determined and publicized as soon as arrangements are finalized
o For 2019: $0.05/share will be declared and paid semiannually, ex-dividend and payment dates to be determined, for a total cash dividend distribution of $0.10 / share for the year. In addition, five percent (5%) of the amount exceeding the Company’s annual net income of $20 million in FY2019 to be declared and paid as an additional cash dividend during the subsequent fiscal year (i.e. sometime during FY 2020)
HSA owns 250 MU (approximately 42 acres) of industrial zoned land, the sale value of which is constrained until the industrial development plan is finalized
A 50% return for Garret. Not too bad for a 16 months investment... However, it is WAY better than the alternative, so I agree that we are lucky to have his involvement in the company.
My wet dream is that he, or similar characters, have been the ones loading up on the dilution this year and that they are willing to return those shares at a similar premium before the TRW-distribution. A TRW-distribution with the OS pr January would be a lot more significant to the PPS than a TRW-distribution with the OS as of today.
we believe that there will be two (2) scheduled distributions
will be made public by Tri-way
in the next few weeks
Ah, I checked the one on their homepage, but why should that one be correct *sigh*
According to the financial calendar on their homepage the deadline for the Q2-report was August 9th 2017 with automatic extension 14th, i.e it shouldn't be the old calendar.
That leaves us with them having changed the financial calendar one day before the deadline of the Q2-report (however, it is SIAF we're discussing here, so who knows what - if any - that means)
Last time they waited a few days before dumping, so maybe they'll wait till after the Q2-report.
So we have 2 important questions for the CC now. Cooperatives and pre-IPO
but he was not sure if the money was needed
And you do not compare total stockholder's equity when you have issued 100% more stocks so the book value pr share is cut in half...
Also, you do not brag about cutting expenses since last year when the difference is that you had to book heavy costs because of stock options (or similar).
Sometimes one has to wonder whether Dan/Solomon is complete idiots, or if they just treat us like complete idiots for the fun of it.
The latest we heard about the pre-IPO is the 2nd half of this year