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Did I miss something. Multi sells this am {6387} at as low as 23.30. Current out of bal. Any news I missed?
While I'm no longer invested in IDCC, I plan to be in the future. I use the word trust with people, not with companies. However let's go with this. Never trusted management of IDCC. If you look at the past history, how could you? Very little communication, {we can't talk about that} and when there is some it's vague and confusing but points to SOMETHING in the future if everything align just right on a Tuesday. Still made a lot of money trading it however. Still could make a lot more if Nok/Sam sign on at the stated figures. But trust I wouldn't trust this management team with anything close to blind faith that you're hinting at. They have made too many mistakes especially with the contracts and their view of time lines {Ericy and Euro sales is a big one, left forgotten} and Nokia, still fooling around 4 years later. How much 2g product do you think was sold during that time? And it's on 3 G now and where are the licenses. How about business goals for 2003? Try and define them and please don't use the words hope and wish! To date the only thing that I could trust this management team with is failure to deliver.
But no matter I certainly don't trust Wall Street either. If fact I don't know anybody who does. And so it goes.
Danny, "What I do know is that professional money managers do not like to own stocks where they perceive there is a significant chance of protracted shareholder unrest"
That would also apply to mom and pop shareholders too.
The lobbying group is an interesting sideline feature but doesn't distract my views from the bigger picture. Idcc needs to learn how to produce. Currently they're talking the talk, in the past that amounted to sales tax returns when most were expecting the larger returns the company was hinting at. You know a wink here a wink there, hockey stick and the like. They need Nok/Sam to be resolved as they have presented it will be resolved. No back tracking on this one, and no wiggle room should be given.
The problem I have with that is Nokia and just how easy will they roll over. Another factor is I just don't see what the penalty would be for Nokia not to drag this through arbitration. What would they lose? And if they don't have the incentive to speed along so to speak does that mean IDCC will have to offer a new deal to get them on board within their timetable.
Frankly If I was Nokia that’s what I would do.I'd wait them out. And I certainly wouldn't be in a rush to fork over 100 plus million
In any event they need to get that done, wrapped, and finished. Everything else is minor. Including the options.
Ok the mail box is cleaned out. Now it's the time for me to enjoy the week end.
Just remember investing is simple stuff. Just do what everybody else is doing before they do it.
Thru the last sec filings.
Great you be the man, I'll just worry about making money investing. Should all turn out.
Well I don't but that doesn't make me right. May be a bounce from sharp somewhere in there but don't think the bounce will hold. Use your best judgement.
Don't know how I could have been any clearer in my posts. You may wish to reread before you make a bulldzr out of yourself.
But no matter, the money is in the bank , whether you figure out how or not.
Enjoy your weekend
Too take the mystery out of this. 10 k was sold at or a little below 24. 47 k was sold at 26.80 to 27.25 and 13k was sold at 26.30 to 26.40 the following day. I have been out since. The correction is just starting in the markets. Been a lot of discussion on this but either camp your in, straight drop or sideways slope, it's going to last for a while. No rush for me. It is my belief that Nok will not be resolved before the end of summer. That would be the only thing that could keep it in the 20's within a falling market.
Now time for a little R&R.
Jimlur, I don't know about that. In MAR/early april when they sold they got out as high as 22. Shortly after it fell to the 18's .But your right during the rest of the month of april and early may it did rise to above the selling point.
But the DEC sales they did pretty good. Starting selling at 17 and with in 2 month after the stock fell to under 12. They got out good.
If you take a look at the chart they did sell at the high water marks when they were able to sell.
I don't think they can sell at will, only during specfic times during the year.
Spree, Don't know if it's going to 20. Just put a few buys out in that area. Hard to guess an exact price from here. Will use the charts to try and "see" the break or bottom or support at whatever price the low area winds up to be.
Well thank god for management. Riding in and selling off. 50k I would think there would be more a' coming! Nice to get that out of the way now.
I love that weak hands leaving comment. You should also add profitable hands leaving. They're taking the profits with them and they can buy back at the bottom.
So let's see.
Smart money, well they have left already. They can buy back anytime and show a good profit.
Weak hands leaving, up all the way to the bank. And they can buy back anytime.
The start of insiders now selling off. Didn't see that coming, did we. Gee do you think they're selling because they think the price is going to go up soon? Really, not very bright then are they? Think again.
Institutions have been selling some off for over 2 weeks. But minor cap amounts. Still , we shall see. 33 percent was right after Ericy, don't know the number now exactly but they been selling a lot more than they have been buying.
No help from the markets, money has been flowing out of there at a high rate and what about that VIX, whew!
Who does that leave?
Oh yeah, the shorts, their time in the sun.
2 mil shares today, another dollar something, proof gone and I'm sure there is somebody that’s going to say that " those pure suckers" you bet!
And we still have people showing graphs on how well IDCC has done since 2000. What they don't show is about a dozen 20percent or better drops in the same time frame. And every time it was the weak hands selling. Dam weak hand people taking all those profits only to buy back at a lower price, fools I say, who ever heard of taking profits, what kind of investing is that!
Look if your comfortable where you are and with your position then you shouldn't be worried about people taking their profits out. THEY'RE NOT WRONG and NEITHER ARE THE ONES WHO HOLD. This is an investment not a team sport. You invest to make money. The biggest difference is time frames, not the process. The process is the same for everybody.
Frankly everybody should balance out in the end. The people who are selling will create a support level later that will cause the base of the next run. Everybody makes out in the end.
OT To the Bull,
Well big mouth once again I find you throwing out your BS for whatever god knows reason. I used to think you were just a lost and confused recreational investor like the guy who reads one or two posts and thinks he knows everything. But it's now clear you're just a common air hole.
Okay for the 15th time lets take you by the hand little boy and explain once again.
" but regardless of that, how can you rationalize his recent claim of selling all (70K shares?) of IDCC on Thurs. and Friday in light of the claims he earlier made in the following post. "
how? refer to post 17800 . If you look closely you can also see words like filling in some other of my posts but that’s not really the point is it. No if went back to the post you put on the board today you WOULD HAVE HAD TO SEEN WHERE I BOUGHT. Again are trying to make yet another BS post by ignoring the facts, or just being selective. Nope just being a little air hole
But there is more. . .
RE: Are you and ge_jim alike in that you only post and acknowledge your sales and predictions
Again your full of it. Without question. Your not interesting in finding them , only shooting off your big mouth.
RE:Are you both merely attempting to manipulate this stock via this little message board?
Nope, that’s just your paranoia and little boy emotional insecurity spilling out. Try not to wet yourself
RE: Or are you subtley trying to recruit ge_jim's cadre of followers here
Again I'm a individual investor. Don't have followers. Your getting confused again with your make believe world with, what's it called, oh yeah the Cabal. LOL.
But no worries, I be taking a break from the boards for awhile. You better stay here however. You need all the help you can get, heck if you were left to invest on your own your wife would no doubt wind up dope slapping you for the rest of the year. No you better get behind someone who know what they're doing, keep your mouth shut and listen for awhile.
OT Data, gee I love math questions.
Q how many "diluted" shares was our .45 calculated against
A The correct answer of course is "All of them"
Q Wouldn't the eps be less with more diluted shares
A In theory if you can drop the earning to exactly zero the dilution will have no effect on P/E
Q I'll add one to help you calculate - what's the P/E that you would assign
A Going to go with the letter "T" on this one as I feel it's been a letter under used.
BTW I never tried smoked beer, how many different ways does it come?
Can you tell the pressures off ! Perhaps too laid back, but what the hey.
Have a good week and all in fun .
Learning, no problem. Were all here for the same reason, IDCC, and were all hoping for the same result. To make a little money. If we as a board could ever get over the hump of minor disagreements, who knows we all could become rich, in more ways than just one.
Have a good day
Spree, No I know which way you're betting. For me it's a little bit deeper than just seeing whose right however.
I use the charts for the floor and ceiling. The middle ground is more troublesome but only if you don't have positions to play off. Regarding the markets and my use of the charts what I see is a heavy correction. I'll spare you the details as it's just my view and could be seen as bashing by some, and I don't need to get into that mess.
Just MY opinion but Nok isn't going to sign now or in June, July or Aug for that matter. You can refer to the 10k but 60 days after the Ericy issue is resolved we now just start the formal discussions? Which are 90 days plus. The original statement from the company stated a period was SET after Ericy was resolved which was agreed on back in 99. So why the 60 days before the formal talks? In any event the soonest I would guess is Sept. It's my feeling NOK will not be in any rush. I'm envisioning something closer to what transpired between Nok/Qcom. Frankly if I was Nok I would go for arbitration. I don't see were they would lose anything and they could get perhaps a far better deal. In any event they would still qualify for the 20 percent after finalization I believe. Form their point of view what the rush? They still have that 3G contract to dangle in front of us to keep us in line. It's their playing field, they got the ball and the money.
Regarding new licenses, I hope so, that would be very refreshing. They're going to need some to fill the gap : They need to fill the 20.3 for pre 2003 sales. If it wouldn't have been for that they would have made less in 1st qt 2003 than they did in 1st 2002.
Revenues in first quarter 2003 of $37.3 million increased $16.4 million, or 78%, over first quarter 2002 revenues of $20.9 million. The increase was due largely to the recognition of $24.7 million of royalties associated with new patent license agreements with Ericsson and Sony Ericsson, offset in part, by an expected decrease of $1.9 million in specialized engineering service revenue.
" Included in the $24.7 million was $20.3 million of royalties from Sony Ericsson related to pre-2003 handset sales"
Again I do think IDCC has a future. It certainly has a lot of good things on the table for 2004. I'm just not as comfortable with the company or the market short term.
In any event Good Luck to you.
Too all I guess. Well I find myself IDCCless. Sold off my account on Wed and the wife's early Thurs.
I guess one has to go with what one believes. Took a look at the last numbers they had and how they came up with them vs the potential of what they should get from Nok/Sam did a little math and decided to pull it. Is it right, is it wrong, who knows?
The market s over bought, Idcc is over bought, neither can support its price with the earnings and both are very much ahead of themselves. Nok/Sam is a least 90 days plus away, and we have the summer slowdown and in my opinion a summer sell off {market wise} in front of us.
In any event I will be a buyer if the price comes back down to where I can justify the trade. Got some levels picked out around the 20 mark. What I couldn't justify is holding and watching a half of mil evaporate if it drops to that point.
Good luck to all, and I mean that !
PS I sold off across the board not just IDCC. I guess this is one way to duck the options issue.
No longer can vote. LOL
ok spree, now I'm done selling - take your best shot- time for me to enjoy a little spring and summer .
Spree,
RE: from here on out I see green for Nasdaq
And I see at least 2 corrections before Nov.
IDCC was over bought at 24. And very over bought here.
Before you mention how wrong I am you should wait till I'm done selling. That way we can address in just one post.
The Ducks are for real
Regarding IDCC and the markets. Having a little cash around to use in a month or 2.
Regarding buying more or selling. Depends on your own opinion on Nok/or other news factors.
Too the people who follow the charts.
You don't need lines to see the wedge on this one.
http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.web?c=$VIX:IDCC,uu[m,a]daclyyay[pb50!b200][vc60][iUm12!Le12,26...
Just a opinion but having a bit of cash around wouldn't be the worst idea I've heard of.
Backing away from the market for awhile. The Nas has had a very good run.
You GOT to be kidding me. Haven't been following this board that much. Is this the same group as the Cabal, I thought was a joke, maybe not. If not what group?
Danny,
Well what can I say, you surprised me. I have too much respect for you to think this is just a statement/view in haste regarding management. You are the closest thing we have to a diplomat of the street on this board and your statement is not taken likely.
FWIW, I don't feel this is high noon regarding management. In fact I have always viewed management as a weakness not strength. This next CC doesn't change anything for me regarding this. My expectations are not high regarding vision or for that matter for them to become world class management this time around, but I do think it's a little early for do or die time.
That being said, I don't have to be right or wrong. I will still be running tight stops and do have a quick trigger if needed. Taking profits and preservation is still part of investing to me and this process has served me well in the past, it also provides me time to reevaluate the company, or for that matter companies without worry of making a bad decision vs that old "I may miss out on something" cheer from the crowd.
You don't have to win every hand in poker to have a good night. Sometimes it's just better to sit out a hand or two. But it's too soon to call it a night.
Anyway just an opinion.
On a purely techno basis, no. There was a volume increase at the end of the day for an unknown reason. Speculation could be shorts covering before the weekend and before the Company's 1st qt CC that will be Tuesday.
Further upside or not will be tied into collection from Nokia and Samsung for pass 2G usage. Unknown time element but barring arbitration most have a time horizon of between May and Sept of this year. Additional upside factors would be based on whatever new licenses they can or can not secure. Current price is at a premium because of the recent agreement with Ericy over a long standing 2g issue and speculation of the beginning of the Nokia/Samsung payments. P/E is a non-factor until the results, amounts and bottom line numbers from the Nokia and Samsung contracts are known.
Alley, would imagine the instituional's{ they're a little slow on the uptake} will be selling off shortly. A break on the 200 will cause some fear to be sure.
What effect that will have on this one remains to be seen.
I see some of the old time market bulls coming out of the closet.{a little late} That usually means time to sell. They haven't been right in 3 years.
On the other hand we should have a year end {they're back loading heavy into the 4th qt} that many will forget the recession.
In any event sold off another 5 today, Good or bad right or wrong I'm comfortable with it.
Good luck.
OH AND GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WILD!
Econeli, I hear you. It's possible this maybe a little early. 24 mark is a heavy one. Think the market is getting a little top heavry in general. Been oversold now for about a week .
Anyway didn't take that much off the table. Just enough to take the edge off.
Good luck to you
Learning, regarding trading, I think what I said was we'll see. Are you looking.
Good name learningtovest, keep learning son.
Ken,
Comfortable with the price I took the profits at. Didn't take that much off the table. 5k. Still have 65k holding. If she makes 24.50 I may take another 5. At 25 perhaps 10k more and run the rest long. Trade with the 20k I took out. But whose to say, thats down the road.
You gotta love the way the Wild plays. No give. Win lose or draw they cn hold thei heads high, Redwings,Sars and Rockies are out. The Wild are still playing, What's the odds on that.
Well spree, you always wanted to know when I'm trading . Took some profits today.
Now we'll have to see if it's a good move or not. Nevertheless I like the profits.
Later
Well I guess I just don't understand everything they way you do. All this cashing out of options by the management is a blessing then, and I as a shareholder simply don't understand how management lining their pocket has been a positive for the shareholders. Why they should double up then, just think how well off we all would be then .
What a crock!!!
BTW 90 percent of my trading with this company was in 2002, been holding since 99. Kind a of goes against your "since you've always held yourself up as a short-term trader" statement but for you close enough.
RE: That's why it's useful to look at the number of shares a company has to issue to reach its revenue milestones and compare the rate of dilution to its peers.
And here I thought they were going to have 8 to 9 dollars a share this year. It appears not nearly enough to reach their milestones since per your logic they still need 5 mil more in options.
All I can say is you got to be kidding!
To keep it simple I'll be voting NO.
Later
Boy are you off base. Have 70k shares that I'm holding and have NEVER shorted this stock.
Try somewhere else for your pump.
Far more likely to sell than to short.
On January 22, 1999, InterDigital entered into an agreement with Nokia
Corporation ("Nokia") involving the development of new technology for third
generation wireless telecommunications products designed for high data rate
applications, such as Internet access. The agreement includes royalty bearing
TDMA and CDMA patent licenses, which are paid up generally through the project
period, and provides a structure for determining the royalty payments
thereafter. InterDigital recorded $31.5 million as licensing revenue and $1.1
million of on-going strategic partner revenue in the first quarter associated
with this agreement
I guess by the wording you could state 31 for a paid up licence going forward from this date with nothing for past usage.
A little color about my arbitration concerns and possibilities. Ericy only had to pat 34 mil for all 2G usage up to Dec 31 2002. Nokia paid 31 mil for these patents to date. But they still owe 120 mil more even with the MFL agreement. Nokia , got hosed. Fairplay cost them a great deal. It would seem Ericy hardball game plan was far more cost effective than the Nokia's MFL game plan. Even with the 3-year grace period.
My point to this is I wouldn't be surprised to see a rewrite or at least a compromise.
Not saying it will happen, and I hope it doesn't, just wouldn't be surprised.
Just simply waiting for the check to arrive.
Well, was going to let this go, but I wouldn't want to be accused of not reciprocating.
To your point { Sure, but my point is that I backed up my viewpoints with easily verifiable facts}
Your statement {RMBS needed to dilute nearly 100M+ shares to get to the $100M licensing revenue level. ARMHY needed to dilute 330M+ shares to get to the $200M-250M licensing revenue level. IDCC only needed to dilute, what, 60M-70M shares to get to the $200M licensing revenue level}
200mil in licensing revenue? When was this?
The FACT that this company has a track record of going to arbitration to get their licenses signed is well known. The FACT that they also HAVE BEEN getting pennies on the dollar during these processes doesn't lead me to believe somebody threw a switch somewhere and all is well now.
They are not collecting from Nokia or Samsung currently, so were is the 200 mil coming from ?
If you just jumped the gun or facts, and meant expectation of collection in your comparison to RMBS than again reread by post to you regarding this, which you didn't respond to . Better yet let me get it for you.
{2003 to date Lost the Sharp contract. Nokia may or may not go to arbitration. Samsung may or may not go to arbitration. Company requests 5 mil more based on these unknown events. I think we should wait to see what we get, when we get it, and how much goes to the bottom line before we justify the new options in question}
Waiting before rewarding being the key point.
Not going to compare this company against RMBS. Don't feel a need to as I have already explained. This company's productivity vs upper management compensation packages, not RMBS 's is my focus point.
Expectations and reality concerning this company had not exactly aligned well to date. They have already been paid very, very well, especially considering the pennies on the dollar returns. Let them put the money in the bank, then we'll talk.
Not all opinions are created equal. No,there not.
I won't leave it like that. You brought up a valid point. My opinion differs than yours.
It happens
Sure once there is an agreement on what facts to use.
All the while trying to find the island of objectivity, which is nowhere in sight.
Enough, it appears we agree to disagree.
Now wait a minute here.
RE: Many of the people like you who complain about the twin issues of dilution and executive compensation don't seem to have a very rational basis for comparison.
Don't need one. Evaluating this company like I evaluate all others. No extra points or leeway given because it's a I/P company. It's an investment.
RE: That's because the IP operating model is very, very difficult to execute
Well then we should have very,very good management to run it.
Have no time for an exercise. Too busy tracking what I already own. And the whole point would be moot. If they can't get it done because being an I/P company is too difficult, well then nobody should be investing in this , should they.
RE: Ronny's framework.
To say the framework was wrong because it didn't follow select I/P companies is foolishness. You don't get a break on excessive compensation because you happen to be an I/P company. Not buying it.
My point has been and is still is the increase and release of too many options vs the productivity released by the company.
RE: Now tell any rational person that IDCC's compensation policies are excessive compared to its peers in the IP business
I an a rational person, not going to compare to other companies, going analyze this company based on what they have done and what they are taking for it.
The 12 mil in options for the period 2000 to 2002 was per you to hire tech's for the Nokia engineering contract.
We got 57 mil for it to date. What did the options cost the shareholders to date?
You will remind me Nokia still will come to the table on the 2 g contract.
I will remind you that the contract was signed and agreed on in 99. That it included a paid up license for past usage for only 31 mil. 3 years free usage and than the accrue which is still on going. Nothing from Ericy in that time period. And A NEC contract realized by arbitration. Share outstanding during this same period went from 48 to 57 mil..
2003 to date Lost the Sharp contract. Nokia may or may not go to arbitration. Samsung may or may not go to arbitration. Company requests 5 mil more based on these unknown events.
I think we should wait to see what we get, when we get it, and how much goes to the bottom line before we justify the new options in question.
Actually that’s not right. IMHO they have already been paid very well for a perfect result.
Now waiting to see if the result will indeed be perfect
And spree,this is my last post to you. Frankly I still think your a MORON, sorry.
Spree , you crack me up. Hers is what was said.
Posted by: GE_Jim
In reply to: spree99 who wrote msg# 17050
Date:4/2/2003 7:34:30 AM
Post # of 22539
Spree, the big M, wasn't trading, got closed out by stops. Not calling any low numbers or any numbers at all. And we were certainly over bought. And still very high. But forget all this over bought, over sold, buy low ,sell high , follow the trend, watch the vol/ money flow with charts stuff, just go with your $1000 or nothing plan, I think it fits you well.
Posted by: GE_Jim
In reply to: GE_Jim who wrote msg# 17009
Date:4/1/2003 10:11:27 PM
Post # of 22539
Today's chart. The double tops were already in play, rsi already falling as well as the money flow. Very curious on the money flow considering we were still at 23. Low vol to get it up there. Anyway it would have fallen as stated earlier anyway, but not like today, today was a train wreck.
BTW Spree, what I said was we COULD low as 18. But when I said it I believe I was responding to somebody I e mail with. It certainly wasn't to you. In any event we went to 18.21 this was stated when the stock was 23and was within one week. What your missing is about hundred e mails that would have a far better for you to read to understand.
Not going to happen however.
Want to know when I think it's going to turn?
Doesn't matter, going with that Dish/spree chart That's the ticket.