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az, here is what is pre planned. WMIH begins trading on a real exchange and then or in conjunction with, they acquire a company or two with solid earnings that need to be sheltered.
What is not pre planned and ain't going to happen is escrows end up with a very large payday. There are zero or very little assets that are coming back to escrows, why, because any assets are long gone, fdick in 08 with the financial crisis in full swing told jpm please take everything so tax payers are not on the hook and make fdick look bad. So that is exactly what jpm did.
Fast forward to today. What ever holding company assets were there are now long gone, mixed with other jpm assets that jpm had years to kill any paper trial easily tying the assets to the wamu holding company. Just think about the 30 billion rubble jpm press release. I would have thought those for certain were wamu holding company assets?
JPM is as corrupt and powerful as they come. I can't even fathom a scenario regarding how 10s of billions of assets are going to fall on the doorstep of escrow holders. JPM and Fdick would have had to spend 10s of thousands of man hours identifying, managing, segregating, all those "wamu holding company assets" for 7-8 years just so they could tie a bow around them and give them to wamu. Because jpm and fdick are such nice guys they are going to pick up the tab for managing 10s of billions of assets that don't belong to them, sure they are, lol.
That is not how business is done under these circumstances. JPM has the assets and they never intended to give any of them back. Think about it, in everyones mind wamu was going down and fdick rationalizes that to be fact and they never cared what happened to any of the assets. It would not surprise me if fdick just turned over everything to jpm, and told them deal with it as best you can, what you can get out of them take it just don't leave us holding the bag.
What's more likely, that escrows are going to get a huge payday or that jpm has screwed wamu out of everything. occams razor! all imo
Until a lawsuit is filed with very detailed accusations that jpm stole billions in assets with claims for billions in damages, what business in their right mind would just turn them over. Not very many and especially jpm who always negotiates based on threats, ie, see you in court for the next 15 years and see who bleeds first. all imo
ranger, trading wmih is a fools game, investing for the long haul is not. If you think you can trade the range good luck, just don't get caught out of the stock on m&a news, you will have to chase it hard. good luck, all imo
bk, great post, I just can't wrap my head around those escrow holders that think that jpm and fdick are going to hand over billion in assets to escrow holders. I wish I was wrong since I hold escrows but it ain't going to happen.
No lawsuits filed on escrows behalf claiming billions in damages, no real documents stating the holding company had billions in assets that were stolen or mistakenly conveyed to others. Nada.
Do I believe the holding company had assets that were clearly theirs, YES, but whatever the value of those assets they are long gone, sliced, diced, laundered by the powers to be, most likely jpm and fdick. Fdick is who screwed escrows, they were so out of control in that time period that they could have cared less with what happened to any assets from anyone as long as they did not end up holding the bag and that is what happened. They touted over and over how not one penny of tax payer money was lost.
So for them now to say they have 10s of billions that they are going to turn over to escrows is ludicrous. I feel most sorry for the dreamers that actually thought they would see a huge escrow payout.
Early on I thought there was going to be a huge lawsuit filed on behalf of escrows with the smoking gun. I thought a law firm would have the balz to go against jpm and fdick but now it's game over. Not one law firm thought the case against jpm and fdick was worth their time and effort. Sad but so true.
My money is on wmih in a big way, and now I am a bit concerned about that as well, not because nothing has happened so far but because of the sec fine against kkr. Good news, that investment has given nice returns and if wmih retreats to 2.15 I am taking my profit and running but I still believe wmih has huge upside.
2 things need to happen and I am all in with wmih.
1. Move to a real exchange
2. M&A with a spelled out game plan, like real companies do.
I am banking on the bod and others not to sell share holders down the river but I am not a positive as I was before, unfortunately.
all imo
error, wow great post, you analyzed the situation well, other than you last statement about escrows getting a huge pay day. how? considering there are no assets, all gone, slized,diced, laundered by our friends at jpm, all imo.
meat , not only possible, probable. You need to remember the times and how out of control the situation was. How did the wamu bank with 163 billion in deposits and a nice mbs portfolio with no exposure to synthetic derivatives get sold for 1.9 billion. Who was in control of all the assets, the fdick. My take is paulson orchestrated everything, bair was clueless. Paulson and Reich, the two heavy weights told bair to get rid of any fdic exposure for whatever you can and that is what they did and that included holding company assets. think about how many times the fdick said we did not lose any money or have to pay out of our funds. that is all they cared about. they had no clue about the value and risk associated with the wamu assets, it was not their agenda to care. all gone, imo
shifty, I realize how frustrated escrow holders are, and I know there were assets that belonged to the holding company and are now gone. Right is not might in the world of bk law, it is more about lies and how much your adversary can get away with.
Do you actually think it is easy to go up against jpm and their deep pockets, it's not. They are corrupt to the core in my opinion and have very deep pockets. A lawsuit, if filed correctly, could do a little damage but it would take a very well respected, very influential law firm to have a prayer against jpm. Problem is, jpm does business with almost every big firm in the U.S. and if they are not currently, the firm would sell out us share holders to jpm in a second.
It is so sad but true. One example that is somewhat relevant. For years I have flipped a patent troll company that is going up against the big boys and has made some headway off and on for 12 years, yes twelve years but when everything looks like it could break for the little guy, just recently the infringers have pulled out a case from the early 1900s and have been successful in getting the courts to review the case on appeal hoping to get the lawsuit thrown out. Another delay, of about a year. On top of that, there have been a dozen different challenges to the patent by the big boys being sued trying to force the patent troll out of business or until the patents expire and become much less valuable. There are other details that you would not believe but we are talking several hundred million in damages and that is the tip of the iceberg. it is near impossible for the little guy to easily win, the big guys don't cave. it's sad but true. all imo
fred, never going to happen, the small town guy would have to spend 100's of hours to get up to speed to put together a lawsuit. Who is going to pay him/them. This is the problem, the share holders are disconnected and never can pull this off. I have seen this same idea over proposed over and over in so many bk's.
Let's say that you do get a small town guy with enough experience to actually write the lawsuit and investigate the damages. Then they would be tied up for years just in the discovery phase without getting paid a dime and let alone they would be going up against attorneys making 1k per hour, yes 1k per hour from the best law firms in the country.
this is the problem and why the share holders always get screwed. do you actually think going into court and writing a lawsuit like this would be easy, omg, you must be kidding. all imo
pick, now you are getting it, just like most other bk's, the share holder in the waterfall always gets shafted. there may have been assets there that could of water falled down but they are long gone in my opinion
fwh, you are dealing with facts, hmmm, let's see:
1. No money to escrows after 7 years;
2. No lawsuits stating huge damage claims regarding share holders;
3. No claw backs ever discussed by the wamu trustee;
4. JPM recently pr's that they made 30 billion out of the wamu rubble
and not a word by anyone representing the estate that the assets
were either stolen from the wamu holding company or they were
mistakenly conveyed to jpm and belong to the holding company.
Are these all facts or my opinion only, you be the judge, have a good day.
well said, there were so many billions at stake, the power players with all their accountants and lawyers and strategist knew just how to steal everything from the wamu holding company, with a little help from the fdick, all imo
you are correct, good post
the fdic is not holding anything in my opinion, they might have at one time held some small potatoes of wamu assets before they sold them off to pay creditors. All this off balance sheet garbage is a myth imo.
Let me ask one question to you regarding off balance sheet. The 30 billion in the rubble jpm pr must have been off balance sheet because surely no one here posted that jpm was kicking azz on a commercial loan portfolio that they bought from wamu as part of the seizure. If those were somehow absorbed by jpm isn't it logical that everything else that belonged to the wamu holding company was absorbed by others as well, primarily jpm.
Most of the pro escrow gang I'm sure thought that 30 billion that jpm recently pr'd belonged to the wamu holding company. Funny, how those folks never talk about that asset because they know it is gone for good and shoots their billions and billions theories down the drain. all imo.
bear, I guess my prose was not clear. In bk law, the lawyers for the bk'd company/bod are only out for one thing, to keep the bod out of trouble/jail and to fill the deep pockets with as much money as possible. Who are the deep pockets, in wamu's case it's the creditors, primarily the bond holders, the hedge funds who bought distressed debt for pennies on the dollar and in this case jpm and fdick, yes fdick had all the power in this bk and they gave it all to jpm, why, because they are clueless bureaucrats and as long as the wamu bk did not cost the government any money that is all they cared about.
Now, how about the shareholder law firm, well, the first one did a great job in getting an equity committee formed and they knew they would be paid by the courts, that is the only reason they took the case, they knew they would get paid. Same with sussman, but a little different scenario in my opinion. I think sussman did as much as they thought they could and basically moved on. The next battle, the clawback, the lawsuits against jpm and fdick were way over their head. Not only that they would not get paid a dime to represent share holders in those endeavors. Why, the court would never approve a ton of creditors money going to a long shot law suit and by the way, logically, the judge by giving wmih to share holders in her opinion was good enough for share holders. Why, because all the judges are pre-programmed to care less about share holders because they are last in the waterfall and rarely does any money trickle to them.
There are so many things I would like to get the truth about but never will. One that I was always curious about even though it is of little relevance is who paid Kirsten Grind off to not pursue her investigation and reporting. She got a huge retainer as hush money as i understand it to write the wamu story and a cush job at the WSJ. Do you see jpm behind it, I surely do, all imo
they all lie, I have never seen a situation where the attorneys representing the bk'd company want an ec and shareholders never get one unless a law firm persuades the judge. We are fortunate that dorothy? was a bulldog in getting a law firm to represent shareholders and the dude who stood up against the hedge funds in court and was able to persuade the judge that the hedgies were dirty.
That is how we ended up with wmih and 6 billion in nol's. But regarding escrows, there is nothing there of substance. It is all gone as mentioned so many times before. Slice, diced, laundered.
Just read the latest 30 billion in the rubble jpm pr. I'm sure many of those who thought those assets were the holding companies were probably right until jpm stole them and sliced, diced and laundered them. Why do you think the pr listed other commercial paper jpm bought from others such as citi. This is jpm's way of clouding the situation. Was the majority of the profit from wamu mortgages, from citi mortgages or from whom ever mortgages they bought. I'm almost sure they commingled everything so you couldn't tell where the profit actually came from. You may think, no way, jpm would have never done that and there must be a clear track record back to which assets are wamu's. Try to prove it in court, it would take 10 years with jpm fighting every move. Think about it, if jpm used 2 billion of those 30 billion in profits to fight in court for 15 years, that's still 28 billion in profit, so sad but true. So what law firm is going to fight against jpm under those circumstances. Be happy with wmih and stop dreaming about escrow millions, they just are not there.
This is how the game is played and why my escrows are worth very little if anything at all. The assets are long gone. My hope is that a small bone comes escrows way, and when I say small I mean bite size. all imo
nurse, many of the posters who think billions will flow just don't understand what happens during bk's. they want to fight about that wamu is different but it's just not. they are all relatively the same. The assets that many talk about were stolen from wamu is probably accurate to some degree but those assets are long gone, sliced, diced, laundered. That is why jpm was ballsy enough pr the 30 billion ruble assets. all imo
voodoo, great post, rosen lied through the entire bk, the problem is the judges don't give a care. they rarely do. this is why bk law is the scummiest of all scum in the legal profession. It blows my mind what the lawyers representing the bk'd company get away with.
This is why escrows will get very little unfortunately. Guys like rosen are lower than whale feces imo.
nurse, you are right on. It is becoming ridiculous how some posters speculate billions are coming back to escrows without having any idea how the business world works. The dreamers hope:
" JPM AND THE FDIC HAVE AGREED THAT 100 BILLION IN WAMU HOLDING COMPANY ASSETS DO NOT BELONG TO THEM AND ARE TURING THEM OVER IMMEDIATELY TO THE HOLDING COMPANY TO RETURN TO WAMU INVESTORS WHO HOLD ESCROW SHARES" LOL
This would be the first time in history that the fdic and/or jpm has ever done anything like this before. The fdic has returned assets before on a relatively small scale and I surely can not recall jpm ever doing so without a lawsuit filed against them. They very much understand that possession is 9/10th of the law.
Per some posters, no lawsuit needed, jpm and fdic are just going to be nice business entities and are happily going to turn over billions.
Just like you said, the 30 bil rubble pr was the last straw imo also.
I find it interesting that the power players on this board have not been posting how the rubble assets are not jpm's but the wamu holding companies. If JPM is willing to pr this they knows they are golden regarding the wamu asset theft.
Be assured jpm ran this pr passed the fdic/government before release. all imo
interesting speculation, how much is WMIIC currently worth. thx
can you specifically show me where it identifies assets turned over to fdick and the value of those assets. thx I sure would like to read that in some official document, a jpm 10k will do if it specifically mentioned them as wamu assets and value. thx
123, you really believe that a huge under the table deal has already been cut, in other words you think the fdic and jpmc are ready to give billions in assets back to escrows/creditors. wow, you don't understand the game imo. jpm doesn't do anything unless there is a lawsuit filed. all imo
bair was clueless. The way it went down is that paulson originally went to blankfein from goldman and asked him in june wtf was going on, and blankfein lied to him and said he didn't know. then sometime end of august beginning of september paulson was more firm and asked him again and blankfein told him that goldman was caught up with huge exposure in synthetic cdo's. They continued to talk and blankfien told him that they were insured by aig. So paulson knew he had to save aig. He then went to dimon at jpm and told dimon he was going to bail all the big banks out that were caught up in synthetic cdo's by bailing out aig, Dimon had to tell paulson that jpm was self insured with their synthetic exposure. A couple of days later dimon met with paulson and dimon gave him a doom and gloom regarding wamu and that if they siezed wamu and sold it to jpm that the capital/cash in wamu would shore up jpm's books and they could survive. So paulson told bair to seize wamu.
Here is where it gets disgusting, Rotella wrote a letter to reich and a couple others telling them that all wamu needed was a short term bailout because of the draw on the bank because of rumors, who do you think set those rumors in motion,my guess jpm, right. HERE IS THE DISGUSTING PART, IN THE LETTER ROTELLA SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED THE SYNTHETICS AND EXPLAINED THAT WAMU HAD NO EXPOSURE, UNFORTUNATELY REICH AND WHOMEVER DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANT OR DIDN'T THINK TO PASS IT ON TO PAULSON OR MAYBE THEY DID BUT PAULSON WAS SET ON SAVING JPM AT THE EXPENSE OF WAMU. My point, is it is very feasible that wamu was in much better financial shape then jpm, goldman, bofa, citi, any bank that had synthetic exposure. It could have been so easy for paulson to save wamu at the expense of some others but jpm was a fed bank and had the political backing and thus were saved at wamu's expense.
Is this a rumor, or fact or a little bit of both. My gut says it is accurate. Bair was a pawn, it was paulson who orchestrated everything.
all my opinion and mine alone
no one will take this on contingency, to much risk and also, they would not want to burn any bridges with jpm if they do have them. so it would have to be a small firm or one with a vendetta against jpm, try to find one.
the best bet in my mind is the law firm that was able to get us the equity committee but this is a whole new animal for them and this time they would not be paid by the trustee.
I know it's hard to believe that no firm will touch this but unless they are getting paid they won't, to risky for them.
all imo
fred, no one at jpm is scared in any way shape or form. They do this all the time. They only react to one thing and that is a lawsuit. How hard is it to file a lawsuit claiming jpm was given assets that did not belong to them. JPM does not even have to admit fault all they have to do is say sorry we did not know those were holding company assets and just return them. Of course this would take place after 10 years of legal battles with jpm but you have to start somewhere. Think about if a lawsuit was filed right after the re-org, it would now be at least 3 years of legal posturing and thus that much closer to being over. But no, not a lawsuit against jpm in site. This is why it's game over for escrows.
Can one of the favorite escrow lovers comment on weather they think the rubble assets belong to the holding company or the bank. I would appreciate your opinion. thx
all imo
nurse, the question is, why have they not sued jpm for property stolen by jpm or "mistakenly" conveyed to them. The longer it goes on, the more laundering of assets jpm is going to do.
It is almost game over for our escrows if something is not done now. file the fing lawsuit you cowards. all imo
bang, good point, I will go one step further. JPM is so connected and has so many lawfirm connections, all these law firms want to do is kiss their azz for future business. No one but the little guys who don't have a prayer of doing big business with jpm will go after them, or rarely will they go after them.
It is so sad but so true. all imo
Let me add a couple of more points for those that think that jpm is servicing the wamu mbs's and whatever else is there.
JPM is the scum of scum imo, they do things that are so corrupt it blows my mind that they get away with it.
A couple of more examples, remember during the discovery phase one of our law ,hearing after hearing, telling the judge that jpm will not release the docs that the courts say the need to, so what did jpm do, at the last minute dumped 50k documents to comply, mostly not relevent just to screw those trying to understand what happened.
Another thing that jpm has done is hold assets that don't belong to them until the courts tell them to turn the funds over. On particular case I am familiar with, jpm was holding client segregated funds for a brokerage that bk'd and refused for months to turn the money over to the trustee so the trustee could give it back to clients. The trustee had to go to court to get jpm to turn the money over. So why would any of you think that jpm is going to play nice, one poster said, being "gentleman" that is why we have not sued them. How naive. all imo
what you are talking about relates to wmih and future M&A imo., nothing to do with those shares being used to pay off escrows. that is one of the biggest pie in the sky scenario escrow lovers have periodically been talking about. imo
123, it's a game that those who want a lower valuation have used in the past. it does not pertain to the wmih nol's if wamu acquires a nice size company with good earnings. It sounds like you are assuming wmih is going to "sell" the nol's and not use them to offset profit. imo
it is 6 billion in nol's which equates to tax benifits of 6 billion offsetting profits which equates to about 2 billion in tax savings, ie, profit increased to the bottom line.
they sure did, look it up.
fred, imo, it's not about a time line of when they can file suit, it's that it has been years and not one major lawsuit has already been filed with claim for billions in damages. If there was huge money there that does not belong to jpm, the lawsuits would have already been filed, if lawyers thought they could profit from filing they already would have. imo
fred, i hope i'm wrong as well. We need a huge lawsuit to be filed on our behalf, imo
et, how do explain the jpm pr from last week, that they ended up with 30 billion out of the wamu rubble, for months, the escorw lovers have been saying that those types of assets were holding company assets, sure looks like jpm is claiming them as their own, and not a word for anyone representing escrows yelling that jpm stole those assets. why?
imo
123, nothing is behind curtains 2 and 3, why, all the assets have been divested off, hidden, subtly conveyed to jpm, laundered, whatever you want to call them they are gone. look at the jpm pr from last week, 30 billion found out of the wamu rubble, where are all the escrow lovers crying that those are wamu holding company assets. they are finally understanding that the asserts are gone. all imo
nurse, the saddest thing about it, those escrow lovers who did all that dd are probably right, there was billions that was conveyed to jpm incorrectly, but sussman was too chicken sh?t to go after them with a lawsuit with huge damages or he was to corrupt and wanted to play nice so maybe down the road he could do business with jpm or too ignorant to really understand what was going on with the dirty assets. we will never know but be assured escrow doesn't have much of a prayer. NOW IF A LAWSUIT WAS FILED WITH FACTS STATING ASSET POTENTIAL OF THE HOLDING COMPANY WAS ILLEGALLY OR MISTAKENLY CONVEYED
TO JPM OR FDICK THEN I WOULD CHANGE MY TUNE AND SAY WE HAVE A CHANCE. But nada has been done. all imo
Fred, Your post is very thought out, and I will agree on a couple of points. Wamu bk was unique in 2 ways, you had a awesome lady fight like heck to get a law firm to fight on the behalf of share holders and even more surprising you had some young dude who was ballsy enough to challenge rosen and the hedge funds in court and get the judge to see that something stunk. Thus wmih emerged.
So we were given a holding company that has 6 billion in nols. That is what we really got, shares in wmih. Yes, imo those have value and I added large on top of my original shares. This is what I am banking on. Even though the recent sec fine towards kkr bugs me. I am still holding strong with wmih.
ESCROWS ARE GIVEN OFTEN, CALPINE FOR ONE, SHARE HOLDERS WERE GIVEN ESCROWS IN CASE INTERNATIONAL ASSETS WERE FOUND AND SHARE HOLDERS WOULD SPLIT THE ASSETS WITH THE NEW PARENT. YOU KNOW HOW MANY INTERNATIONAL ASSETS WERE FOUND, ABOUT 2 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, SO CALPINE ESCROWS GOT ABOUT A PENNY OF THAT MINUS LEGAL. IN THIS DEAL ALSO, THE U.S. ASSETS WERE SO UNDERVALUED IT WAS A JOKE.
KMART GAVE ESCROWS TO SHARE HOLDERS AS PART OF THE DEAL. WHAT FOR, SO THE JUDGE COULD GET THE BK OUT OF HIS COURT IN RECORD TIME. WHAT WAS THE VALUE OF ESCROWS BASED ON. IT WAS BASED ON APPRAISALS OF THE VALUE OF THE REAL ESTATE. THE PROBLEM WITH THE APPRAISALS WAS THAT THE APPRAISERS WERE HAND PICKED BY THE NEW KMART BOD AND THE VALUE WAS AGAIN UNDERESTIMATED BY 4 FOLD, YES, 4 FOLD. AS SOON AS THE PAPERS WERE SIGNED FOR THE REORG ABOUT 2 MONTHS LATER THE REAL ESTATE WAS REAPPRAISED AS PART OF THE SEARS BUYOUT AND THE REAL ESTATE WAS WORTH 4X MORE. THE JUDGE ADMITTED AFTER THE FACT HE WAS WRONG IN HANDLING THE KMART BK.
Do you get my point of why escrows are screwed. The powers to be collude, lie, steal, borrow, launder, stall, sue, what ever it takes to screw share holders. This is what happens every time, share ESCROW holders never win. The deck is stacked largely against them. You have Rosen kissing jpm's butt, you have the fdick trying to protect jpm because they are a fed bank, you have sussman still collecting fees along with rosen. Lawyers win.
You mention act like gentleman, there are zero gentleman in bk law, zero, they are all out to get a piece of the pie and let the share holders always hold the bag.
The difference is wmih, I agree getting wmih was a win, not escrows. Escrows are used all the time to b.s. share holders. all imo
We have escrows for a reason. We signed the releases.
Answer: You signed a release based on a hope and a prayer that assets could easily be found and returned. That has not happened nor will it, way to much time has passed. When JPM is ballsy enough to pr how much they made out of the rubble, the game is over. My guess is that rosen out maneuvered sussman. I am certain Rosen knew there were assets there that belonged to wamu but he did not care and surely was not going to fight for shareholders. And no way was he going to screw jpm, why, for simple, his firm is looking towards the future and it is a very small club of law firms. If it as not already happened don't be surprised in the Rosen ends up getting a lot of business from jpm.
There are some that say major holders did not sign and that is proof we are getting nothing.
Answer: If major holders were going to sue they would have a very long time ago. The reason they have not sued is not because they think that assets are going to be turned over it's because they can't find any assets to make a claim over. Not only that they know that jpm legal would tie things up for 10+ years.
So if JPM is bragging about how they broke the law they are going to be sued and IMO would be forced to forfeit the ill gotten gains.
Answer: They would have been sued years ago if there were claims that could be proven. Nada.
there has never been a BK like this one. Comparing it to a normal BK just wont work
Answer: This is what so many of the naive folks who never trade/studied bk's think. This bk is very similar to almost every other one I have ever traded. BK's are the scum of the legal industry, attorneys like rosen are the scum of the earth, they sell out every time to the big money or for those that they may be doing business with down the road. It's just how the game is played.
Lastly, I think jpm and in particular, jamie, snake oil salesman, dimon is/are the scum of the earth.
all imo
lol, no one is blowing the whistle, the wamu holding company assets are long gone and sitting pretty as jpm assets now. either no one associated with wamu, ie, trustee or lawfirms were smart enough to find them before jpm laundered them or they were scared to go after big bad jpm and dropped the search, whatever the reason is, escrows are surely not getting them. imo
foxx, this is not a pro wmih board, this board is full of dreamers hoping that our escrows are worth millions. unfortunately they are not. jpm colluded with the fdic and any assets that did belong to the holding company are long gone. why do you think that jpm came out with the recent 30 billion pr regarding assets that they bought from wamu all for 1.9 billion. Because the jpm lawyers know they are all clear. all the wamu holding company assets have now been sliced, diced, laundered by jpm all per gray areas of gaap. escrows are going to get nada. all gone.
buying wmih may be a good gamble but now with the kkr sec fine I'm not so sure. we shall see, all I know for certain is my escrows are garbage. all imo
exdimer, yes, they are not coming back but you are wrong regarding jpm. if not for jamie, snake oil salesman, dimon's luck to have evaluated wamu in march of that year, jpm would have been screwed. Wamu was in better financial shape than jpm, period, that is no doubt about that. JPM was so caught up in their fraudulent synthetic derivatives they would not have survived if not for that large sum of wamu deposits. If not for Hanky pank paulson. Wamu could have been the one to take over jpm, it would have never hapened because of the jpm connections and the fact they are a fed bank but if all was created equal, wamu was in better financial shape. imo