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Excellent article, Suky. However, that is just the tip of the iceburg. When Bill Waldroff built two shrimp farms to do the initial research, the science had not progressed enough to perform meaningful studies.
The quest for cures in the crustacian market were attacked by a massive basher attack. A few of us fought back and eventually the bashing ceased. The delivery method remains a great big question mark. It will no doubt take a lot of trial and error to discover the most expeditious manner of delivering the sequences to the target. When it is proven, it will have a great impact on shrimp farming. Theoretically, we will be able to grow five pound shrimp that are healthy and of course delicious .... lol. Practically, we will be able to grow slightly larger shrimp that are free of the diseases that have wiped out entire countries shrimp industries. Penetration of the US market will be slowed by the FDA, but there are far larger markets that will immediately embrace the technology.
Unfortunmately, cygx has said that they just don't have the time to undertake the required studies. AVGI has given no indication of having either the motivation nor expertise to proceed. When Dell threw up his hands and left, all progress in that arena seems to have melted away.
Percy, you have to remember when the agreement was made. It was a long time ago and we were in dire straits at that moment. Mangaement is not the same now. The contract was intended as a preliminary agreement. It should probably be renegotiated, as was the intent of the parties way back then. To do that will require that all parties convince each other of their sincerity and fairness. That is a tall order.
The jury apparently found that there was nothing improper with the contract nor the manner in which it came into force. At that time we were a very small outfit with very few shareholders. Agreements like those are very common in small businesses ... I've entered a few of them myself and no doubt many of this threead have also done so.
We've got to forget about poursuing the questions about how and why we got to where we are and concentrate on how we mount up and charge forward.
You may be right, but those are very small prices to pay if we come out of this with TWO groups working toward a common goal and we will not need bystanders on the sidelines hurling threats, insults and mis(dis)information.
Will probably loose legal fees they paid their attorney plus the legal fees of the opposing attorney.
Hey CD ... the more I think about the whole scenario, the more convinced that it can certainly inure to all our benefit. It is just like having two basketball teams square off ... it depends on the players.
The license granted to Waldroff had no termination provisions and no time limits, but it was entered into apparently with the notion of renegotiating it later. All parties agreed on that, I believe. It was not a requirement, but that seemed to be the intent of all parties.
I can see the possibility of renotiating without any further compensation ... especially when renegotiating did not seem to be a hard and fast provision. A successful renegotiation will require that all parties come into the negotiations determined to find a fair and equitable arrangement and not come into them with the goal of defeating the other parties. If they do that, they will simply fail. It will no doubt be difficult for them to sit down and work together for the collective good and to forget ther attitudes that led to this fiasco in the first place. Threats and hostility will doom any possibility of advancement of the science. So will indifference and lack of sincerity.
All of the parties will no doubt need all of our supports and encouragement. There is not a dummy in the group, so let's hope that none of them decide to play that role.
Hey Other Jerry and the board,
You are probably correct about some positives coming out of the trial. From what I have been told everybody won something and everybody lost something.
The validity of the Waldroff license was upheld and Bill keeps both the crustacian and equine licenses. No money changes hands. Attorney fees, if any, will be determined by the Judge.
Maybe references to "fraudulent" licenses will now cease. Maybe both sides will now be able to sit down and discuss future plans in a rational manner that will eventually inure to the benefit of us shareholders. Both sides (actually all three sides) have a lot to offer.
Testimony was offered to the effect that CYGX had no intention of developing equine or crustacian products ... they were just too busy with trying to get human applications to market. Given the existing situation, that is actually encouraging to me.
The biggest question I have is, "Can the AVGI folks actually get solid research and development underway and actually develop a product?" Only time will tell, but it is going to require the cooperation of all parties concerned. No doubt this trial has added scars to both sides. Now we will be able to determine the charcters and determination of all concerned.
The parties can bow up their backs and continue to clash or they can step back and tell themselves that they must make sacrifices in order to advance the science. If either continues to carry on a covert war with the other, then it is all doomed to failure. If they do indeed selflessly work together and keep their petty animosities from clouding their visions, we will see great progress and success over the upcoming years.
It would be easy to take excerpts from either sides testimony and build a case against any of the parties, but I do not feel that is proper ... at least at this time. If any of the parties want to pursue that path, it will speak volumes concerning them, their motivation and devotion to the science we own.
God bless all of them and let's put this all behind us and move forward.
The other JV ...
Howardjoel, the company in the PR is a testing company and would have been conducting dosage testing. They would not have bene involved in the human testing, if I understand it right. PP would have been involved in clinical testing in India. Two different missions, methinks.
I left the court room this afternoon immediately after the jury retired for diliberations fully expecting them to be out until at least sometime tomorrow, so I also am surprised that they returned a verdict so fast. I have also been unable to confirm the verdict, so I know nothing about the awards, if any.
Hey Chadman, I really would not feel comfortable in saying anything ... especially in a public forum. Maybe I can say something when this is finished.
Hey Doc Rick ... hope you have located the missing escapee ... no doubt this wirestory will give you some insight into methods of deterring the desire to flee .... hmmmmmmm ... somehow I just can't picture you standing there in a Mardi Gras posture ... rofl ...
Ousted ape workers
sue in breast request
SAN FRANCISCO - Apparently, the 1,000-word sign language vocabulary of Koko the talking gorilla includes "show me" and "your nipples."
Two women who worked as handlers for the female great ape have sued the foundation that cares for her, saying they were fired for refusing to show the precocious primate their breasts.
The $1 million lawsuit says the president of the Gorilla Foundation, Francine (Penny) Patterson, wanted Nancy Alperin and Kendra Keller to bond with the gorilla by performing "bizarre sexual acts with Koko."
"Through sign language, as interpreted by Patterson, Koko 'demanded' plaintiffs remove their clothing and show Koko their breasts," the lawsuit said.
"Patterson pressured plaintiffs to perform such acts, regularly and consistently, and on at least one occasion, outdoors where others could see," the suit said.
It claims that on one occasion, Patterson said: "'Koko, you see my nipples all the time. You are probably bored with my nipples. You need to see new nipples.'"
The women never undressed but were threatened that if they "did not indulge Koko's nipple fetish, their employment with the Gorilla Foundation would suffer," the lawsuit alleged.
"We unequivocally deny these allegations and are confident that this case lacks merit," a lawyer for Patterson, Todd Roberts, said in a statement. "For the attorney for plaintiffs to manipulate a purported employment issue and miscast it purely for publicity purposes is particularly hurtful to the noble efforts of such a reputable organization."
The suit also claims the Woodside facility had unsanitary and unsafe conditions.
News Wire Services
Originally published on February 19, 2005
http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=KoKo+nipples&page=1&offset=0&result_ur....
I wrapped mine up today.
Hey nappy (etal), the Judge said for the jury to come back in early on Tuesday and to expect about two or so more hours of evidence to be presented before they get the instructions and adjourn to deliberate.
Malcolm and I also again discussed the "number of patent apps thingy" and it is being addressed at this time. Hopefully there will be an update forthcoming.
Percy, I just spoke to Malcolm about the matter of the number of patents and patent applications. We confined our discussion to only that matter and to a couple of retired Utah Jazz basketball players ... oh, and we also mentioned chocolate chip cookies.
Here is the bottom line. CYGX has one patent issued and about 15 US patent applications and ammendments filed. For each of them, there are up to 4 international filings.
Malcolm is in total agreement about having them listed on a single webpage and had made that same suggestion a while back. He is checking into whether it has been done or not.
From filing to listing can take from a few days to half a year (or even more, on occassion).
Once published, they are readable by not only us, but by our competitors. I suggested that any listings on the website be restricted to the minimum verbiage possible. He and I are in agreement.
I hope this will put the matter to rest.
Hogger
I belong to that club ... there is 1) the figure I wish I had, 2) the figure my tailor observes, 3) the figure my wife sees dragging out of the shower, 4) the figure I had forty years ago, 5) the figure I'm trying to get on the Tony Little Glider and of course, 6) the figure I actually have. I sure wish figures one and six were the same .... rofl@myself.
Dr. Rick, that is very interesting. Could you describe some of the modifications of behavior and how far away the hurricanes are when it starts? We know that air pressure has many manifestations in animals, and that lunar phase progression also evokes major changes. Any other theories?
Skoob, are you trying to say that matters such as "trials, lawsuits, poor management & any past problems" are not relevant and/or should NOT be discussed.
What should be discussed on this thread?"
Suky and any of you who remember the Paradign Investors board on Ihub .... who was the board monitor there?
With Skooby, Paulness and a couple of others unable to maintain any degree of intelligent idea exchange and unable to offer coherent thoughts in a grammar level above that of early elementary school, is anyone ready to go back here:
http://www.ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=CLB00332&newpost=1
Paul-ness, CYGX is NOT in the same arena as NESS, so don't start implying that there is any similarity. NESS was a scam that preyed upon the religious beliefs of unsuspecting people. There was absolutely no legitimate science involved. Just your typical scamster misusing the bible to line his own pockets.
CYGX is based on very sound science, led by the genius of people like Yin Chen and a supporting cast that would make Charlton Heston jealous.
Many scamsters and their cohorts love to tell their associates not to talk to certain individuals and other sources of information. Those scamsters want to be the sole source of information and claim that their beliefs are the only true beliefs. They cannot stand to have their words challenged ... because usually their spoken slates simply will not hold water.
BTW, Paul NESS, did Hayseed take you and some of your close allies for a ride, too? Had anyone given warnings and been attacked?
Okay, thanks.
Interesting ... my subpeona still say Monday 7th at 9:00am. Who did you talk to? I spoke to one of the attorneys yeasterday and he talked about the 7th.
Interesting ... my subpeona still say Monday 7th at 9:00am. Who did you talk to?
I remember the NESSies well. All of that was happening about the same time as the AZNT fiasco and a plethora of others. More than a few people were harassed over many of the stock scams that were rampant back then. I remember the all night phones calls as well. I even saved a couple of 'homemade' subpeonas.
I don't know who else on this board has been as "close up and personnal" with CYGX as I have been. The CYGX technology has extremely broad support. After all these years, I still do not fully understand all the things Skillern and Conrad told me way back then. Of course, they operate on a higher brain-power plain than I do. Yin Chen and I are in different universes. Some day he'll be in Stockholm with his team.
I fully understand your concern over the number of patents claimed. I don't share that concern, but if a business does not have someone playing 'devils advocate' they are going to get caught up in syndromes that lead only to destruction.
Just for fun I just did a google search on my name and my alias .... thousands of hits ... had to go thru hundreds to find the first one that applied to me. Oh, you forgot to tell me if we're still beating up on yall ... both LL and SPC .... LOLOL
Percy, while I agree that management must have accurate numbers they make available to the public, I also understand that there are diverse methods of counting patents and patent modifications.
If the opportunity presents itself during next weeks trial, I will certainly point out to Malcolm that it might be beneficial to have a page on the CYGX website that addressed ALL of that information.
Let me also say to you that I regret the unfortunate series of posts attacking you. Several of the posts which were erased were in your defense. The entire affair reminded me of some of the barrages that were fired by various folks during the time CYGX was under an all out basher attack. Isn't it ironic that several of the posters on this thread have been branded as both pumpers AND bashers?
BTW, are my Lobos still whupping up on yall like we used to do? ROFLMAO
Arnold, Ilene, Suky and the thread, hopefully we have seen the extremes to which the nonsense can reach on this thread. Hopefully, questions concerning any aspect of the corporate scenarios can be raised and answered in civil manners with actual DD done by the various members.
The question of the number of patents seems to have been the catalyst (if not the direct cause) of the recent explosions. Personally, the old hogger isn't all that concerned with whether the munber is 14 or 42 or 400. It is not the quantity, but the quality of those patents. If it were to prove out that there are 400, but they do not work, then there is no benefit. If there is 1 and it represents the paradigm shift many of us believe to be the case, then it could make us all rich and change the face of medicine.
If I can remeber to do so, I'm going to suggest to Malcolm that we add a page to our website that addresses all patents filed and granted. That will preclude any of the questions that have been raised recently and the accompanying flak attacks. We may well be too busy to think about such, but I'm sure someone will pass this suggestion on to him.
Suky, I sent an inquiry earlier and had been wondering when some action would be taken.
Now, back to cygx business. We'll have a lot of questions answered next week ... at least in the first action. I'm just hoping that the judge does not seal anything so we can all get to the bottom of the disagreement for ourselves.
Good Grief CD,
I hope you are not making an accusation of impropriety on my part. I think I have fully disclosed my dealings and position with CYGX, et al. Remember, it was CYGX that called me as a witness in their AVGI legal matter. I just happen to have stock in both and have been closely associated with both. I was saying great things about both at a supper last night with a ranking member of the Agriculture Department here.
For the record, I am fully committed to the success of CYGX and far greater share price.
You and Percy seem to have developed some kind of 'internet incompatibility syndrome.' Happens all the time. Remember when you were being attacked as a pumper of this very thread? Remember when you were attacked as a basher on this very thread? Hey all of us who post a lot and have been around for a long time have been branded with both labels.
I like both of you and hope you can patch your differences. They really are minor. As for agendas, everyone of us has an agenda. It may be as simple as buying the stock to make money.
As for LO, I do not like him and think I have him pretty well pegged. Don't worry too much about him. If I DO have him pegged, he'll have his just reward awaiting him. I do promise you that.
As for the questions that have been asked, I've asked many of them directly and have asked a lot more that I would not even consider posting on a public board. There are a lot of questions that all shareholders should consider asking. Same goes for criticism.
Anyway, I'm with everyone who is awaiting the announcement that will take our stock higher. I just wish that we could actually capatilize on the progress to come ... can't do anything about the fiascos of the past, but I will not forget them and WILL continue to push for changes that will prevent them in the future.
Hey BigB,
While reading your post, a song an old friend of mine wrote and recorded kept going thru my mind ... "Well it's the same old song ... fiddle an guitar, where do we take it from here ..." I kept rerunning the mental videos from when he and I were kids and rather bored with the same old sandstorms. One day he had a new song and changed an entire genre of music and it'll never be the same.
Well, this situation has some similarities. We've heard the same old thing over an over with only minor variations for a very long time. The reason we hear them over and over is that they are just part of the naural flow of business and progress. They important factor is that we have made progress. We have to keep repeating everything as that paradygm shift is building to a crescendo ... and then the field of medicine will never be the same.
Keeping the faith is a real challenge when progress comes at glacial speed. I'm not giving up and for some very strange reason, I think we are going to be hearing of REAL progress very soon ... possibly within the next few days. Don't know why I feel that way, but it feel very strong from half a world away.
One more blurb about the bashers saying the same things over and over ... you know, the rah-rsh folks do exactly the same thing from a different perspective. It doesn't make either of them bad. It just makes them more normal ... lol. In example, if we're going to blame Percy for asking the same questions about deficits over and over, aren't we going to have to do the same for the "to the moon" crowd?
Now, what's that 'after stroke' protein that makes us walk funny and forget so danged much? Yin ... we need you ... stat.
Percy, in the many years you and I have been involved in CYGX, do you hve an accurate listing of the many times we have been called bashers in the morning and pumpers in the afternoon .... LOLOL
As for LO, I can only imagine that it has something to do with the diabetes we share. LO has sustained considerable mental impairment due to his total regard for diet and checking his glucose levels so can adjust his insulin. The diabetes has take its toll over the last few years and he just won't do what he knows he needs to do. These threads should take that into consideration when judging him.
Other than that, I can't count the number of patents, much less explain the math involved.
Do you have any idea on the discrepancy in the number of patents Lawerence claims......and the number they claim on their pumped up press releases.....and the number on the website claimed
Right you are ... whether we buy, sell, swap or turn our shares into wallpaper is nobody's business except the purchaser, seller, swapper or wallpaper hanger.
As I have proven, I'm not above getting into a good old fashioned brawl when the urge strikes. All of us (dangit, I guess that includes me)sometimes get carried away. Personally when I am challenged, I will swing back, but as I've shown I can usually some how get myself fecally collated.
For the past week or so Ive been enjoying the sights, sounds, smells and essence of the Far East and it has brought little enjoyment to check this thread.
We absolutely need the 'devil's advocates' just as much as we need the 'rah-rah' gang. Let's get back to having frank echanges, diverging ideas and the kind of reports on individual DD (the good, the bad and the ugly) that came together on this thread to give a more accurate view of the state of the corporation.
The CYGX technology remains a potential boon to mankind. There are still serious problems, as well.
Right now I'm in a Communist Country and it has again reminded me of how good we have it in so many ways. One of those is our ability to speak openly and present our views without fear of retribution. Some on this thread would have us all follow the 'party' line and others want to do little but oppose it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked I don't think anyone owned this thread. If everyone will extend the courtesies to others they would hold for themselves (ie, cut each other some slack, dudes and dudesses) this thread will again be worth following.
Tat, just another case of a woman trying to come between a man and his browser ... when will it all end ... LOLOL
My wife is sick of me telling her how much I love this browser.
PP, you are absolutely correct that Bunker is not on the CYGX board. To carry it a little further, he has never been on the CYGX board. The BO referenced is for "Beneficial Owner" and resulted from one of the worst business financial decisions in the history of CYGX.
Hunt ended up acquiring 10% of the rights to the intellectual property owned by CYGX. That was not rectified until last year.
With only a very little amount of planning, the entire scenario could have been avoided ...
LOL ... I read that and had my usual chuckle at Larry's ignorance ... it's just not worth the effort to reply to him ... he did get a mention in my depo, of course ... it was about half a line ...rofl. He reminds me of those idiots who always seemed to think there was some great prize awaiting them if they beat me across a crossing.
Gee Percy, don't complain about being grilled by members of this thread ... yesterday I was grilled by the lawyers representing everyone in the horse and shrimp lawsuits ... LOLOL
There is an "all or none" attitude that pervades most threads and this one is no exception. Over the years we have bought and sold stock in CYGX and now have a reasonable amount that represents pure profit. I wish I had sold every share I had at $3.00 and bought basck at $ 0.03 ... I could have sold over the past week and taken several million bucks to Latin America and been totally retired and living like a king ... LOL.
BTW, somehow selling with a 3X profit just doesn't seem stupid ... ill-timed, maybe, but not stupid.
Suky, I think you asked for a link to the AVGI website. Here it is:
http://www.avgi.net/
Depositions seemed very interesting this morning ... mine at least stayed fairly civil ... LOLOL ... I believe both sides should go on a fishing trip and get it all worked out so us shareholders benefit ... They could sit down and work out a compromise and save a lot of time, effort and money.
Drop it Scooby. I apologized if I offended anyone ... well, except you of course. Remember, you are the one who attacked me ... and you are the one who posted a bunch of false information about me and my business dealings, and now you are trying to get me TOS'd. Why should you be allowed to malign me without my being able to defend myself. Review your comments at the conclusion of your post quoting me.
Shame, shame on you.
Tat, I apologize if I offended any of the members of the board other than the attacker I was responding to. I certainly stand by what I said, but will certainly accept your decision. I'll try to drop you an email later today.
Playing moderator can be a tough job ... a very good reason for my not being willing to accept such a slot.
Goshohgee Sukey, there goes that ICAM again ... really is thrilling that CYGX management made sure that nobody with whom they were in a relationship with actually went out and performed all that testing on animals at no cost to cygx. Of course we sure didn't want any of those Aggies involved, especially if they needed any assistance in understanding a new technology that nobody had tried to apply before. Aren't you thrilled that we have no problems with egos getting in the way of progress?
Holycow and the gang,
I would think it is irrelevant to worry about which process is used to produce the DNA for the FDA trials. First, DNA is DNA. When you buy a new toaster, nobody is concerned if it was assembled by hand or by robots ... the FDA's main concern is the final product, they are in our case concerned about the reaction of the DNA, not how is was obtained, unless it comes from embryonic stem cells.
Our problem is having a confidence inspiring financial type who can apporach the parties who are willing and able to underwrite the venture. That takes us back to getting the person with the right kind of resume and rolodex.
Just having the technology we have had for years is a paradim shift in and of itself. We know how much financial progress was made with that. Now we have added a second shift of equally great magnitude.
I would submit that previous agreements should be honored and that CYGX should take advantage of the production progress to project an image of being a company that bends over backward to meet their obligations.
Not much happening Tex ... Astros won the world series, Aeros reactivated Maurice Richard, Dewey was elected President, our stock went thru the floor ... just a few little things like that ...
I just got out of my recliner. Anything happening?
Is that the Tastonkano self portrait???? LOLOL
(Just kidding of course.)
CD, there is an equally large potential market in the Botanical field, but I don't think I have even seen it mentioned on this thread.
The market is unbelievable and the technology is earth shaking ... we still need help from some folks with the right resume and rolodex.
It indeed has the potential to be emormous ... it is also in a market that should experience rapid growth as the DNA based therapies become developed and accepted.
Let us hope and pray that this is not another bee in a bonnett that gets management fired up to a degree that everyone (as Confusedus would say) gets up each morning, mounts eight horses and rides off in all directions simultaneously.
Given the 'expertise' in the front office, one must wonder if this is the time to readjust the configuration of the management chart. Maybe we could see CYGX have two divisions headed by experienced 'hands-on' people. That way, each of these 'paradigm shifts" could get in gear and we could finally roar away from the starting line.